Concrete Countertop

[Per Swenson]

Hello Everyone,

Has anybody considered this option and then

just gone out and made one? Yes, I have loads of

literature, access to supplys, no shortage of tools

and space. What I would like to hear about are

your first time trials and tribs.

Thanks in advance, I am late for homeroom

(just kidding)

Per

[Mark Singer]

Per,
I have made them several times...They are a hassel....If you get the really nice ones from David Hertz or Cheung , it is more expensive than Granite or Ceaser stone...
We made or first ones about 20 years ago....formed them on the floor in the home and lifted them into place. Very heavy so try to keep the sections reasonable in size. I think we use fibermesh and poured a fairly dry mix.... Managed not to get any cracks..
For the time and money involved I would get Ceaser Stone...they have a color called Concrete and it looks great! I use professional fabricaters...they rip miter and drop down an apron that is undectable that makes it look thick . Then run a small bullnose on the edge...about 1/4"
http://www.caesarstoneus.com/gallery/#id=Hot&num=1

http://www.concreteexchange.com/?referrer=Google&gclid=CJG7hdmc8IMCFRd-CwodjwfSIA

[Jim Becker]

Taunton released a book on this subject a year or so ago in case you want to read up on using concrete counter tops. I've never contemplated trying it, but do find it intriguing to a certain extent.

[Chris Yarish]

There is a fair amount of info on this message board:

Do a search and read onward.

[Dev Emch]

Done right, they make a true statement. I was looking into doing some of these but found out some issues I am not happy with. First of all, the cobalt blue ones pictured on some of the books, etc. are not really an option. The concrete dyes cost hundreds of dollars per container and often you need to purchase a pallet of these from the distributors. Most concrete folks who use color are not using the WOW colors you need for cool kitchen tops. That said, there is one exception. The charcoal/black colors also look good and thank goodness these colors are reasonable. Many colors look like you schelped a hunk of sidewalk into the kitchen.

Another thing to consider is sealing. Concrete counter tops need to be sealed more than any other surface. I dont mind sealing but its a ritual you really need to address since one wayward fish fry can add a patina to your counter top that most folks would rather not have.

Then you get to the grinding sanding and polishing. I hate wood sanding. Grinding concrete counter tops would make me apply for the job of president of the united states just to get away from the grine-dah.

I think the most often used colors by most DIY folks is charcoals and blacks. Might I suggest you consider soapstone instead. Soapstone has been used on lab benches for more years than I have been alive. It too must be sealed/oiled to protect it but in this case, most soapstones turn a nice deep charcoal/almost black color. Soapstone is an extremely dense talc stone which means its softer than granite. Since most granites are plastic sealed anyway, soapstone is actually more heat resistant than most granites. Granite can take the heat but its sealer cannot. Now there is temple grade granite and I have access to some of the best in the world. But its name is colorado rose red granite and boy is it rosey! It super high density and lower porosity mean it does not need to be plastic sealed. But the color may not be your cup of tea. I can get this stuff for about 32 dollars per square foot in 3 cm polished sheets.

But back to saopstone. The major advantage to soapstone is that it can be formed using carbide tipped woodworking tools. I would not use the festool items on this stuff but you can use an older skill saw or that craftsman router with excellent results. Being that I can a router on this stuff, I can freely rout drainage channels, tapered drain boards, copper inlay channels, bull nose details surrounding edges and sink cutouts, etc. IT works almost as nicely as corian but it is a stone in the end analysis.

A black soapstone counter with copper inlay looks about sharp as your going to get!

Good Luck...

[John Daugherty]

Per,

The LOML wanted concrete tops for our kitchen. I said I could make a couple of sample tops using melamine coated particleboard for a form to see how they would look. The slabs were 24”x 48” by 1.5” thick. I colored the samples using dry pigment that you can get from the borg. I used black for one and tan for the other slab.
I mixed the concrete fairly dry. I filled the form half full and put wire lath cut about 1” undersized in and then filled it the rest on the way. I took my reciprocating saw and vibrated the form to consolidate the concrete and remove any voids. I then troweled the concrete smooth and level. I let the form set for a few days covered with plastic. After removing the form and flipping the slab over I discovered there were small pin holes in the concrete. I mixed a slurry of cement and pigment and filled the voids. I let this set for a few days. I then etched the concrete with a weak solution of muriatic acid that removed the very top layer of concrete and exposed the aggregate. I let this dry. Then I went to work with my ROS. I don’t recall the grit, but I went through a lot of disks. After all the sanding, the concrete was very smooth to the touch. I sealed the concrete and stood back to admire my work. I went and got the LOML to see what she thought. She promptly told me she didn’t like the look and wanted to go with butcher block! Women, you gotta love um!

[Jim Becker]

DBut back to saopstone. The major advantage to soapstone is that it can be formed using carbide tipped woodworking tools. I would not use the festool items on this stuff but you can use an older skill saw or that craftsman router with excellent results. Being that I can a router on this stuff, I can freely rout drainage channels, tapered drain boards, copper inlay channels, bull nose details surrounding edges and sink cutouts, etc. IT works almost as nicely as corian but it is a stone in the end analysis.

A black soapstone counter with copper inlay looks about sharp as your going to get!

Indeed. The folks who did my soapstone counters used four PC 7518 routers, on 7539 router, one PC worm-drive saw, a PC belt sander and a Fein 6" ROS to do all the sink, drain and counter edge fabrication/refinement...right in my driveway. I love the soapstone and after three years, it already has a very nice patina. And...it doesn't need sealed like almost everything else. A little mineral oil once in awhile if you prefer is the only maintenance.

[Rob Blaustein]

Hello Everyone,

Has anybody considered this option and then

just gone out and made one?
I have, but only in the abstract, not in the concrete...
Ba doom, boom.

[Gail O'Rourke]

Hi Per, I have a concrete counter top and love it. I bought it from www.stonesoupconcrete.com

Mine is red! (ok, kind of maroon) I can snap a picture if you want. I love it, It has worn nicely and I hardly ever seal it. The difference b/w granite and concrete for me is that concrete is warmer to the touch than granite.


Last year I went out to their studio and they let me help pour a massive concrete counter. I will have to look and see if I have the old pictures.

The trick is to put metal mesh and re bar in the center for stability and then to vibrate out the bubbles. They pour their counters in forms upside down. So the bottom becomes the top. They then put them on huge vibrating table and vibrate it so that the air rises to the top (bottom) and they are trowelled off. Before they had the machines, they would pound the form from the bottom with hammers. I could go on and on...if you have a specific question let me know.

[Per Swenson]

Thank you All,

You see around here in this way overpriced

neck of North Jersey any custom counter top

suitable for your average 6000sgft starter McMansion

is going to run about the cost of a new motorsikle.

I am of the thought process where I should be driving

that new machine.

Per

[Rob Blaustein]

Hi Per, I have a concrete counter top and love it. I bought it from www.stonesoupconcrete.com (http://www.stonesoupconcrete.com)
Neat website, Gail. My wife is dying to learn how to make these. Problem is these things are so heavy, you need some strong people around even for small things. She keeps talking about taking a course at Cheng's in San Francisco, but I see the Stone Soup guys teach a weekend course in Vermont. I think I see a Bday present in the making...

Don't know if you get out to Wellfleet at all--there's a nice concrete bar (and concrete sinks in the bathrooms too) at The Wicked Oyster, our favorite restaurant in those parts.

Per, have you thought about concrete for bars?

[Jeffrey Makiel]

You see around here in this way overpriced

neck of North Jersey any custom counter top

suitable for your average 6000sgft starter McMansion

is going to run about the cost of a new motorsikle.

Per
Amen to that from Linden, NJ!

Ceasar Stone: I think I've seen this product in tile form: 12x12, 16x16 and 24x24. I think one name for it is Stylestone. I also seen an episode of Hometime (not proud of this fact, by the way) that installed a tiled countertop with matching edge details. The butted grout joint was grouted with a similar colored non-sanded grout. It looked pretty darn good.

The Home Depot have these tiles available as special order. They run from $15 to $25 per 12x12 tile and are about 3/8" thick. The literature stated 92% real stone product in a 8% expoxy matrix, machined and polished. Although it doesn't give you that monolithic look of a solid chunk of stone, it comes pretty darn close. And since you can probably do the work yourself, it's gotta be a fraction of a granite countertop.

One other point about this product (tile or slab) that I read in FineHomebuilding (I think) magazine, is that very hot pots and pans can damage the surface. The natural stone is not the problem, it's the epoxy that holds this stuff together that was the problem.

-Jeff

[Russ Filtz]

One note about rosey/pink granite. It can have a somewhat higher natural radiation level. Not sure how much, but may be something to think about if you sit at a countertop everyday beaming radiation at you!

The pink color typically comes from lead oxide, and lead is a natural decay product of uranium I think (one of those "niums" at least). So if there's lead in the stone, may be a good chance of the precursor as well.

the level may not be very high, but if you really look at it, there is NO SAFE dose of radiation ever! you are basically playing a statistics games. Even one stray neutron alpha particle, or gamma ray can do its damage if it hits the wrong spot.

[Bill White]

Caeser Stone, Silestone, Cambria, Zodiaq, Technistone are just a few brands on the market. All are man-made look-a-likes (for real stone), and are super products. That being said, none have the natural beauty of real stone, but are "idiot proof" counter topos. Put 'em in and forget 'em.
I offer the quartz to the customer who wants a worry-free top with a warrenty.

[John Stevens]

Per, I know this isn't what you asked for, but have you considered "flagstone"? As I understand it, the name flagstone is just a trade name for a stone that has been quarried and cut to a four-sided shape with straight edges at right angles. The name doesn't correspond to any particular "geological" type of stone, but I think that flagstone is normally made out of softer sedimentary rock. It's mainly a neutral gray color with shades of yellowish and reddish browns in random figures. If you go to the stone supply place and pick the pieces, you can find some really beautiful stuff.

Flagstone is soft enough that it can be easily cut with a diamond blade in a circular saw, and the edges can be rounded and smoothed with ordinary WW files and sanders. Normally the face is uneven, but fairly flat. Some stone suppliers will special order it with the faces milled flat, and I'd assume that most home owners would want that type of a surface for a counter top. It's porous, but can be sealed easily with stone sealer that is sold at paint stores. I think it's some sort of clear, water based acrylic stuff.

I've tried to upload attachments so you can see what this stuff looks like, but I'm unable to get it to work.

Then there's "Pennsylvania blue stone," which looks similar to flagstone, but it's a uniform bluish gray color. You can order it cut to a custom size and shape, and you can have the edge bullnosed or rounded or whatever. Like flagstone, it's porous and would need to be sealed if used as a countertop.

Hope this helps.

[John Stevens]

Here are some pics. Hope this works.

[Hal Flynt]

To answer the first question, yes I made a small vanity top out of concrete about 5 years ago and still like it. 24" x 42"

I made my base out of 3/4" exterior plywood, use a Roto Zip (only time I liked using it) to make the cutout for the Colonial Sink (No straight lines). It left a 1/8" kerf that I used to force 1/8" door skin pieces in to the kerf space between the top and the waste cut out (this is for a dam/form.) the same height of my outside forms. The outside forms were 3/4" Ply about 1 1/4" above the top (total 2"). The outside from was screwed together, the inside form was friction fit and duct taped at the breaks in the doorskin.

I used the concrete mix that for patching or leveling. I mixed it up and put some black concrete coloring powder in it going for a charcoal gray. I mixed and poured into the form and vibrated, floated etc as best that I could and covered with some plastic for a slow cure. The plastic I used was that semi-transparent stuff that my JET dust collector was wrapped in and it as a crinkly type texture that I thought would make a nice surface. I let this cure for a week and then peeled the plastic off. It was lighter than anticipated and some bubble had come to the surface giving it a moon crater effect. H'mmm.

I had some black non-sanded grout and mixed some up on the thin side and smoothed it on and sorta dry polished it out (sprinkle on some dry grout powder and rub with a towel makes the grout very “tight”). It looks like black slate. I sealed it with a commercial sealer, but that left water spots that eventually went away. Then I used a water based poly. Good results.

Oh I forgot when it was cured, I removed the forms and attached 2" walnut trim in the place of the outside form on the exposed sides, the grout made this a tight and seamless fit. The 3/4" ply is still in place plus 1 1/4" concrete giving me a 2" thick counter top. I have though of using the same technique for larger tops. No steel used, the ply and vanity give enough support that it hasn’t cracked in 5 years of daily use.

Now having said all that, I am looking at soap stone for my kitchen.

[Robert Mayer]

Sounds like it might be a bit more work than its worth. Guess it depends on how much you like working with concrete. Theres a lot of diamond grinders out there for smoothing concrete that work well and are cheap to rent.

I considered just using granite tiles for the counter tops with a thin grout line colored the same as the tile. A bit of work to get it perfect but at around $4 a tile its much cheaper.