End Grain

[Bernie Weishapl]

Well sitting here in the middle of a Kansas blizzard so thought I would ask a question. I turned a walnut bowl yesterday. I had a problem with roughness on the end grain. The outside I got pretty good using Bill G.'s vertical shear scrape and sanding. The inside is what is giving me problems. I use a scraper, Sorby scraper and tried a shear scrape but still could not get it right. I sanded with 60 and 100 grit but it is still not right. Still slightly rough. I read Ernie Conovers book and he said he used sanding sealer then scraped. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

[Blake McCully]

Bernie, end grain gives us all fits. I attended a demonstration given by Bob Rosand, and he uses sanding sealer mixed with laquer thinner. Wipes it on, and lightly wipes it off. While it is still damp, he goes over the area with a tool, whatever you use, and it helps tremendously. I have tried it myself with varying degrees of succes. However walnut seems to be a real bugger when it comes to that.

Hope this helps.

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

One thing I find that helps, when I have both side and end grain, is to periodically stop the lathe and sand over the end grain with (along) the grain lines, then going back and sanding with the lathe on. I seems to help clear the tearout faster.

Thw Walnut bowl in my post about Jumbo Jaws is an example of the results of this method.

Bruce

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it. Will try both and see what happens.

[Curt Fuller]

A couple tricks I've learned. Keep a spray bottle of water near your lathe. If you get an area that just won't cut smooth with out tearing give it a little spritz of water. It lubes the wood fibers just enough to help cut smoother and dries fast so it won't affect any future finish. If your lathe has a reverse, try sanding in reverse too.

[John Hart]

Another approach that seems to work for me is make sure that you are not cutting face-on to the end grain. This is a little tip that I picked up recently. By this, I mean, make sure the edge of the tool is cutting into the face grain of that end grain. So, if you have end grain facing the outer diameter of the piece, approach it with the tool edge by cutting along the long axis so you are shaving it away. I hope that makes sense. It's an old idea so I'm probably just stating something that everyone already knows.:o

[Rich Stewart]

My 24 year old college student said, "Kansas? Isn't that down by the equator? What's it doing snowing there?"

I almost choked on my own spit.

[Pete Jordan]

What college does he go to?

Pete

[Mike Ramsey]

Speaking As someone that has never had any pretty Walnut to
to turn! I really feel for ya Bernie :p .

[Bernie Weishapl]

So John what you are saying if I am taking my gouge from the faceplate to the lip of the bowl, just go the opposite. Go from the lip to the faceplate?
Also would speed have anything to do with getting it to cut right? I have been turning bowls at about 1000 rpm. Would it make any difference if I up the speed to say maybe 1400 rpm? Thanks

Hey Rich they always ask me if Kansas is the end of the earth and I always tell them naw you can just see it from here. :p

[John Hart]

So John what you are saying if I am taking my gouge from the faceplate to the lip of the bowl, just go the opposite. Go from the lip to the faceplate?
Also would speed have anything to do with getting it to cut right? I have been turning bowls at about 1000 rpm. Would it make any difference if I up the speed to say maybe 1400 rpm? Thanks

Hey Rich they always ask me if Kansas is the end of the earth and I always tell them naw you can just see it from here. :p

Nope...I'm not saying anything about direction Bernie....I'm just talking about always slicing the Facegrain...never the Endgrain...from whatever direction you choose. Maybe I'm just expressing myself poorly. I'll thinks a bit.

Oh...I do all my stuff under 1300 RPM.....usually around 1000, and vary a bit, depending on whether I'm doing something toward the center or not. That's just me though. I know a lot of folks say, "the faster the better".:)

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ok John I think I see what you mean now. Cut the face grain. I will give that a try and see what happens.

[Dennis Peacock]

Bernie,

Wet you a rag with MS and hold it on the inside of the turning bowl closest to you. Now....take a piece of 100 or 120 grit sandpaper and sand with the lathe running slow as it will go (on your lathe) and sand for a bit. The MS will not act like water and find it's way into the wood and maybe warp it futher, but will soften the wood fibers enough to where you can sand it out faster because the wood is easier to cut with the sandpaper.

This process also works for final sanding at grits of 400, 600, 1000 and 1500. You just have to remember, in the higher grits? You just really polishing the wood instead of sanding. ;)

[Rich Stewart]

I was in Kansas once. I'm not sure where but there was a HUGE field. Is that close to you Bernie?

[Corey Hallagan]

Rich, i think you must of been standing in Bernie's back yard!

Corey

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Hate to sound stupid, Dennis, but is MS mineral spirits!

Bruce

[Andy Hoyt]

Mississippi, Bruce.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks guys I have a few things to try. I am hoping one will make it a lot easier than this one has been. I appreciate the help.

Like Bruce, Dennis MS is mineral spirits?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Yes guys........MS Dennis is referring to is mineral spirits.:) .......Andy I wonder how many water/coffee/beer logged keyboards you are responsible for?:confused: .........Not to mention spit splattered screens and monitors!:eek: :D

[Curt Fuller]

Yes guys........MS Dennis is referring to is mineral spirits.:) .......Andy I wonder how many water/coffee/beer logged keyboards you are responsible for?:confused: .........Not to mention spit splattered screens and monitors!:eek: :D

Add one to the total:D

[Ernie Nyvall]

Another approach that seems to work for me is make sure that you are not cutting face-on to the end grain. This is a little tip that I picked up recently. By this, I mean, make sure the edge of the tool is cutting into the face grain of that end grain. So, if you have end grain facing the outer diameter of the piece, approach it with the tool edge by cutting along the long axis so you are shaving it away. I hope that makes sense. It's an old idea so I'm probably just stating something that everyone already knows.:o

John, I am really trying to picture this, but it is just passing me right by:confused: . Course that's not unusual, but I'd really like to know what you are talking about. Anyway to show a picture?

By the way, I sometimes have success by turning my scraper at about a 60 degree angle instead of having it flat on the tool rest. It sort of slices that way.

Ernie

[John Hart]

Well...let's put it this way. Imagine that you have a cylinder spinning on the lathe and twice per revolution, you have end grain presented to your tool. Instead of cutting into that endgrain....start at one end and cut into the face grain and continue that movement along the cylinder. Never present the cutting edge to the end of the fibers...but slice those fibers off from the side.

If you put someone's hair in a vise so that just a little hair was sticking out...then take a razor blade and try cutting the hair by scraping the ends with the blade. It doesn't work. But, if you present the blade edge from the side, it slices them off cleanly.

I explain things poorly :o

[Ernie Nyvall]

Thanks, I gotcha now.

So... I guess we know how you cut your hair too.:D I guess it should certainly be even on the ends.

Ernie

[Cecil Arnold]

Really Ernie, you're the last guy who should be talking about cutting hair.

[Don Baer]

I think what John was trying to say was this.

http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/grain/orthog.gif

theres a whole lot of good information here on the topic.

http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/grain/grain.html

[Ernie Nyvall]

Really Ernie, you're the last guy who should be talking about cutting hair.

HEY!!! I'll have you know that I keep both of my hairs in place and neatly trimmed.

Ernie

[John Hart]

I think what John was trying to say was this.


Yup...that's it Don! Wow...what a great link. Thank you!:)