QSWO Plywood

[Bob Marino]

I am going to start building an A & C bookcase/entertainment center soon and would like the carcas to be made from qswo plywood. Is there a good source- I live in NJ?

Bob

[Cecil Arnold]

Bob, living in Jersey, I thought you might find some that "fell off the truck."

[Brent Harral]

if you are a millionaire. My experiece with going with that kind of "special" species in ply is that yes, it more than likely is available, but boy it's gonna cost ya. I'd call a commercial ply supplier and ask if their supplier can/would do a run for whatever you need, but I'm thinking it's going to be in the 2-3 hundred a sheet price range if you don't buy under 100 sheets :D Sometimes it's cheaper to just work with solids but I understand if you want/need to go the sheet route if you don't want to do all of that milling going solid.

Bob, qswo plywood rather than solid? That's blasphomy! :D

Hey, maybe you and some other guys have a place right down the road and it's $100/sheet...if so, disregard my entire message :D

[Dave Tinley]

Bob-
I cant help you much with a supplier, I am sure some others will chime in.
Since I build a lot of Arts & Crafts and use QSWO I have found the 3/4 material is very high around here, like almost $85 per sheet. Where as 1/4" sheets are about $22 per sheet. Supplier says it has to do with supply and demand.
To me its worth laminating a 1/4" sheet to a 1/2" birch, comes out to less then $60.00. Or I will veneer a 3/4 birch with my own qswo veneer.

HTH
Dave

[Bob Marino]

Bob, living in Jersey, I thought you might find some that "fell off the truck."

Cecil,

This is no time for honesty.:D :D :D

Bob

[Bob Marino]

Yikes! $200.00 - $300.00??:eek: :eek: :eek: If that's the case, no way. At a reasonable price, I can entertain the thought though.

Bob

[Brian Buckley]

Bob,
What is OSWO plywood?

Brian

[Brent Harral]

Funny, but as Dave Tinley said, he can get it for $85, which I think is pretty darn reasonable....see what do I know :D

[Ed Labadie]

Bob,
$137.00 per sheet here in Mi.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Don't mess up any cuts.

Ed

[Bob Marino]

Yikes! $200.00 - $300.00??:eek: :eek: :eek: If that's the case, no way. At a reasonable price, I can entertain the thought though.

Bob

Brian,

Quarter sawn white oak.

[Jace Weber]

If I could pick up good quality QSWO 3/4" around here for $85 a sheet, man I'd be all over that. I ain't local to nuthin' as far as any kind of varity of plys, so I end up either veneering or going solids.

[Bob Swenson]

Cecil - We are not all sopranos in NJ, some of us sing bass :mad:

Bob- Try Mauric L Condon Co. 250 Ferris Ave, White Plains.NY
914-946 4111.
Nice People. Large selection
Bob

[Dev Emch]

Bob...
First of all, the problem with quarter sawn white oak veener is that there is no such an animal. If I rotary cut white oak, I lose the fleck and character of the wood. So I am stuck doing the resaw dance until the cows come home. But there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Berkshire Veneer (877-836-3379) has some stuff that may be of interest to you. They take quarter cants and soak them in water and then slice them with something that looks like a huge hobart salami slicer on steriods. Then redry the leafs. The leafs are about 8 to 10 feet in length and range from about 6 inch to 8 inch in width. And they are 1/42 nd of an inch in thickness. Berkshire Veneer is located up in Mass. and you need to talk to Ben. Cost is in the range of $1 dollar per square foot. I have included a photo of this very material.

Now, about the veneer process. Plywood (multi layer like my beloved baltic birch) has an odd number of plys. Here is why. The odd man out is the central ply and in engineering terms, its called the neutral axis. So each time you laminate on a new ply, you have to laminate on the same ply on the other side. Hence, adding plys is now done in pairs. This keeps the expansion and contraction stress balanced so the sheet does not warp or mis behave.

Adding yet another ply will even out the ply count and throw your panel out of balance. Of course if your using THAT EVIL MDF, this is one case where it will not matter. In most circumstances, you need to laminate on a backer sheet as well to keep the panel in balance.

But I have a theory. The expansion and contraction of plys which ultimately cause panels to warp is always inline with the ply in either the X or Y direction. Plys in baltic birch are always orthogonal. Hence, you need to balance the plys. Hence the requirement for the odd number of plys.

But quarter sawn lumber is different. Its expansion is in the Z axis or in a direction perpendicular to the tangential surface of the panel. In english, that means the panel will get fatter or thinner in thickness and not want to pull one side or another into warp. Furthermore, the amount of expansion is directly proportional to the thickness or length of the growth ring being expanded. In quarter sawn veneer, that would be a reference length of only 1/42 nd of an inch. In conventional flat sawn veneer, the reference length would the width of the panel in the cross grain direction. Big Difference.

So this appears to be the one and only time that I think one could get away with only a single ply lamination. Also note that if you use two plys to balance anyway, the backer ply must also be of quarter sawn or rift sawn material. DO NOT USE a flat sawn veneer along with a quarter sawn face veneer. ITs not the same thing and you will be worse off than if you just used a single quarter sawn veneer.

Good Luck....

[Howard Acheson]

Contact Condon Lumber Company in White Plains, NY,

[bill walton]

Bob,

It wasn't cheap but I got some very nicy material from Boulter Plywood shipped to me from Somerville MA. They are at www.boulterplywood.com, 617-666-1340 and have a huge selection of specialty plywood available.

Bill

[Jim Becker]

First of all, the problem with quarter sawn white oak veener is that there is no such an animal. If I rotary cut white oak, I lose the fleck and character of the wood.

Sure there is and it's not rotary cut 'cause that, by definition, wouldn't be QS. ;) The veneer is sliced just like you would cut thicker sections and laid up on the substrate just as you would with boards. Sheet goods can have just about any species and "cut" you want...it's only money.

[Dev Emch]

Sure there is and it's not rotary cut 'cause that, by definition, wouldn't be QS. ;) The veneer is sliced just like you would cut thicker sections and laid up on the substrate just as you would with boards. Sheet goods can have just about any species and "cut" you want...it's only money.
Jim...
It pays to read before you fire!:p Had you read the whole post including the photos, all issues would have been resolved. I have done enough of this stuff to wall paper half of Washington D.C. in exotic veneer! At least it seams that way. You know you have a problem when your on first name basis with the veneer dudes, the resourcinol dealers and the parts desk at Vac-u-Clamp!

[Walt Pater]

Hey Bob,

Can't Dykes special order it for you? There's always Premium Plywood, but that's up my way near Albany. I bought some 'bout this time last year, both veneer and MDF core. 3/4"x4'x8' veneer-core A/1 stock went for 98 bucks, delivered into my shop. The sheets didn't really have a pronounced ray pattern to them, which was fine with me- I just really wanted to avoid those nasty "cathedrals" that rotary oak has.

[Jim Becker]

It pays to read before you fire!:p Had you read the whole post including the photos, all issues would have been resolved.

Trust me, Dev...I read it multiple times to be sure I understood what you were talking about and my take is that you were suggesting a "roll your own" solution. If one wants to buy the product, it is available. Example after doing a little Googling:

<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="table253" border="0" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" height="20" width="265"><tbody><tr><td style="border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: medium;" width="15">
</td> <td style="border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px;" background="../../../images/labels/label_Prd_03R.jpg" width="250"> White Oak
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="table302" border="0" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" colspan="3" width="100%"> Rotary Cut
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104024-00</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-4, WPF</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-204032-00</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/2" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> B-2, WPF</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304021-50</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-1, WPF, MDFC</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304032-00</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> B-2, WPF</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304042-00</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> C-2, WPF</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304043-00</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> C-3, WPF</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" colspan="3" width="100%"> Plain Sliced
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-094005-03</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> G1S, FD, Import, 5.2mm</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104024-03</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-4</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104032-03</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> B-2</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104034-03</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> B-4</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304021-03</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-1</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304021-53</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-1, MDFC</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304032-53</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> B-2, MDFC</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" colspan="3" width="100%"> Quarter Cut
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104024-06</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-4</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304022-06</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-2, Plain Sliced Back</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304022-56</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-2, MDFC, Plain Sliced Back</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" colspan="3" width="100%"> Rift Cut
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-104024-08</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 1/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-4</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="30%"> 862-304021-58</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="25%"> 3/4" x 4' x 8'</td> <td style="border-style: none none solid; border-width: medium medium 1px;" width="45%"> A-1, MDFC</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Bob Marino]

Thanks guys. I called Condon's and the price is $155.00 for 3/4" qwso. Also, add to that a $150.00 delivery charge! Why I am not surprised?:rolleyes:
Got to mull this one over. Especially since I can't get to see what it looks like - as in are there any rays/flecks on those sheets.
I will give Van Dyke's a call also.

Bob

[Don Baer]

Bob,
For that price I'd just get some 4/4 QSWO and glue up panels. I called my supplier and they'll sell me all I want for about $7/dbft

[Richard Wolf]

Try Roberts Plywood, Deer Park, NY. 1 800 422 4922.
I know they send trucks to NJ everyday.

Richard

[Jim Becker]

Bob, don't you have any NJ/PA cabinetmaker "friends" or customers who deal with plywood wholesalers? Perhaps they can add what you need to one of their orders...it would certainly save LTL freight charges and may result in a slightly better price, depending on the volume they do with the supplier.

[Chris Gregory]

Bob,

Have you tried Eagle Plywod and Doors? I'm away in Cozumel at the moment but I could get you the contact info when I get home on Thurs.

Chris

[rick fulton]

QSWO ply around here is very disappointing. I would call the following example RIFT sawn. My first attempt at real woodworking was a built-in mission style entertainment center. The carcass was to be QSWO ply, the doors, face-frame, and pull-out shelf were built from solid QSWO. The photo is pixel grainy, but it is easy to tell the difference in wood grain.

rick

[Bob Marino]

I will check out some of these places for the qswo, but will also get the hardwood for the face frames, drawer fronts, etc. from WestPenn Hardwoods - beautiful stuff!

Thanks again guys.

Bob

[Bob Marino]

QSWO ply around here is very disappointing. I would call the following example RIFT sawn. My first attempt at real woodworking was a built-in mission style entertainment center. The carcass was to be QSWO ply, the doors, face-frame, and pull-out shelf were built from solid QSWO. The photo is pixel grainy, but it is easy to tell the difference in wood grain.

rick

Rick,

Very nice color to that piece. Nice to see some full size pictures though.

Bob

[Jim Tobias]

Bob,
I have not bought this particular product from them , but Wall Lumber http://www.walllumber.com/fur.asp
has it listed at $76/sheet. I cannot vouch for the appearance of it, but I have always gotten very good quality wood from Steve Wall (Wall Lumber).

Good luck,
Jim