Bent lamination>>>Glue to use????

[John Miliunas]

Hey gang. So, I've got this little project going for the LOML, which will include a curved top and will require an apron below to follow the curve of the top. I have a jig made, complete with holes for the clamps to go through and the wood strips (Bubinga) already cut to make the bend. Now, I realize that Unibond 800 would probably be the best, but the setup temp of that is kind of restricting me. :o Would a good yellow glue do the trick OK for me??? I typically use Lee Valley 2002 GF, though I also have some TB II available, as well. FWIW, I also have some Titebond Cold Press for Veneer glue, though I was told by another WW that, the stuff isn't what one would call "ideal". Any help, suggestions, past experience, etc... would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :) :cool:

[John Hebert]

is all I use..... white takes longer to set is all

[Steve Clardy]

Titebond regular gets spread on everything around here, except my wheat bread.

[Dennis Peacock]

John,

The 2002 GF would be a fine glue to use for your bent laminations. I use regular Tite Bond glue instead of the TB II as it produces less glue creep. The key is lots of clamps!! Make you a jig to bend around and clamp to. Coat it real well with Johnson's Paste Wax and the lamination will come right off the clamping form. I did this with the chairs I made and it works great.

Just use your regular wood glue and it'll work fine. I've used White Glue before and it works just fine as well, about 4 hours of set time in luke warm temps and it'll be fine.

[Steve Clardy]

I snitch wax paper outa da house for that.

[Dennis Peacock]

I snitch wax paper outa da house for that.

LOL!!! I did too until I got "caught".!!!!:eek: :o :D

[Scott Brihn]

Hello John,

As the others have mentioned what you have will work. A couple years ago I built a rocking chair and used DAP Plastic Resin glue for the bent laminations. It is cheap and easy to mix (comes in a powder which you mix with water), and gave me sufficent time to get all my layers in place (I think I had 8). My results were great, virtually no spring back and a rock hard lamination.

On the downside, it is hard on traditional jointer knives when you go to square up the edge for ripping to final width. I knew this upfront and simply planned my sharpening schedule accordingly.

Go Badgers!

[John Christiansen]

I agree with CJ and Steve that good old PVA wood glues work great for bentwood laminations. Although I haven't done many of them, the few that I have done have never delaminated.

But John mentions that the wood is Bubinga. Isn't that one of those oily tropicals that might at least need a good wipedown with acetone or something first before the glue? I don't know anything about bubinga.

I did find out that PVAs don't work worth a darn on IPE (another oily tropical) Gorilla glue was the answer for me with IPE. But man what a messy job that would be putting up a bent lamination with Gorilla glue.

[Dale Thompson]

Titebond regular gets spread on everything around here, except my wheat bread.

Hi Georgeous,
Are you SURE about the wheat bread? :confused: The left side of your mouth looks like you may have forgotten the rules once or twice. ;) :o :) :)

Dale T.

[Dale Thompson]

Hey Spring,
MAN! You have more different glues in your shop than I have TOOLS!! :o I never get far enough with any of MY projects to need that "fastening" stuff!
:(

Sorry I can't help but the only liquids I have in MY shop are Maalox and Milk of Magnesia! :cool: :eek: :)

Dale T.

[Fred Voorhees]

John, I happened to walk on up to David Marks giving some expanation at the recent Woodworking show in North Jersey and he was talking about just this subject. He demonstrated a dried piece of ordinary wood glue and a dried piece of resin glue that he usually uses on his show. The normal wood glue was easily able to bend. The resin glue was very stiff. He said that it is a much better choice to use the resin glue since it was much stiffer and thusly, would not allow anywhere near as much "springback" (that's my word for it, not what he used) but you get the idea.

[Don Baer]

When we tpok the workshop from Sam Maloof and he was showing how he laminated his rockers he said he used Tightbon III if I remember correctly.

[CPeter James]

I cover my forms for bent laminations with duct tape. Works just like teflon. No sticking at all.

CPeter

[Mark Singer]

The 2002Gf will work fine ...plastic resin is better. remember the wood has memory....(I am losing mine:confused: ) and it will spring back when dry... I let laminations go over night... I made many plywood chair seats and backs using mdf forms....and clamps...I spread te glue with a small flat board to cover quickly... The spring back is about 10 to 20 percent depending on the wood...

[tod evans]

john, i have used most glues sucessfully on bent laminations since this is an indoor piece the main consideration is how much stress your plys are under... if the bend is tight or your plys are fat you would be smart to use a non-creeping glue such as plastic-resin, urea formaldihide or polyurethane. if your plys are thin and the bend gradual then yellow/white or hide glue would be fine......02 tod

[John Miliunas]

Thanks for all the replies, gents! :) I think I'm going to go with my "usual" glue of choice, the 2002. I've been using that ever since Mark Singer recommended it last summer and I've been very pleased with it. (Thanks Mark!:) ) This is my first attempt at a bent lamination, so we'll see how it ends up. The Bubinga was resawn and then drum sanded to just shy of a 1/16", so it's bending quite easily. :) :cool:

[Lou Morrissette]

John,

I've had real good luck with Titebond II On some fairly tight bends on ash and walnut laminations. The material was cut to 3/32. I experienced no creep at all. I've found that plastic packing tape works real well on all my forms.

Lou

[Steve Clardy]

Hi Georgeous,
Are you SURE about the wheat bread? :confused: The left side of your mouth looks like you may have forgotten the rules once or twice. ;) :o :) :)

Dale T.

Only once or twice:rolleyes: :eek: :D

[Howard Acheson]

The traditional professional adhesive for bent laminations is urea formaldihyde. DAP/Weldwood Plastic Resin is a UF glue that is fairly readily available. UF adhesive cure hard and have no "creep" which means there is little or no springback. The curve you glue is what you get.

PVA adhesives (yellow glues) are OK for bent laminations that will be supported in some manner. Curved apron fronts are an example of a supported lamination. However, for a non-supported lamination like chair rockers, PVA's are not the best choice. PVA's are softer adhesives have low shear adhesion which means that the laminations can slip past each other allowing the curve to undo over time.

[Scott Cenicola]

I am making my first attempt at a bent lamination using pine. I was doing so research on the proper glue to use and found this thread. It's from 2005, so I assume products have changed. I researched uf glues as suggested, but they do not seem as readily available as suggested. Has anyone tried gorilla glue (the thread also recommends poly based glues)? Or what other readily available products is everyone using. Thanks

[Bade Millsap]

I used West System six10 on a recent project that was white oak and 4 layers about 1/8" each. The bend was very severe. I built a big "press" form. Used MANY clamps. The six10 gave me plenty of open time.

[Dave huber]

I've used DAP urea formaldahyde glue for bent laminations for a Morris chair.

Great stuff.

long open time. Solid bond.

Don't overlook the temperature requirements. I had a partially failed glue up due to a cold shop Yikes

I think I'm still a bit rattled by that one

Dave

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm with Howard (and others) and use Urea Formadehyde glue. In particular I use Unibond 800.

Springback has been quite minimal. YMMV, but I feel it's good advice. Other glues may work, but Urea Formaldehyde glues will certainly work.

[Jamie Buxton]

I used to use urea fomaldehyde (Unibond 800) for bent lamination. But I became concerned about the formaldehyde exposure. Formaldehyde is on the EPA's list of known carcinogens. And the building-products industry is working very hard to reduce formaldehyde content in building products like insulation and plywood. I switched to epoxy for bent laminations. It too is a glue without cold-creep. I use West Systems 105. An added benefit is that epoxy will cure at lower temperatures than urea formaldehyde.

[Scott Cenicola]

Hi Alan,

I live in Tampa as well. Do you mail order it or do you get it locally? Thanks

[johnny means]

I use West System on spiral handrails. Plenty of open time, ample rigidity, plus it's less toxic than the formaldehyde glues. These are laminations that can take an hour our more to lay up and require a lot of tweaking.

That being said if I was doing a table apron, I would just with my regular old Titebond, whichever type was nearest.

[Alan Lightstone]

Hi Alan,

I live in Tampa as well. Do you mail order it or do you get it locally? Thanks

Mail order. I haven't found it locally.

Highland Woodworking, Vacupress, and a few others sell it online. I'll have to see where I got mine.

[julian abram]

I'm no expert on bent lamination projects, only done one project that was a 40" dia coffee table apron. Used titebond 800, it turned out very good. That is some very hard glue when it dries. I was a little surprised how easy the project was. I think the hardest part was building the form. I used this article as a guide. Good luck!
http://www.americanwoodworker.com/blogs/techniques/archive/2009/10/07/bent-wood-lamination.aspx

[Peter Quinn]

I'm no expert on bent lamination projects, only done one project that was a 40" dia coffee table apron. Used titebond 800, it turned out very good. That is some very hard glue when it dries. I was a little surprised how easy the project was. I think the hardest part was building the form. I used this article as a guide. Good luck!
http://www.americanwoodworker.com/blogs/techniques/archive/2009/10/07/bent-wood-lamination.aspx

im im guessing you meant uni-bond 800' not tite bond 800?

[Joe Cowan]

On my Maloof rocker, I used the Titebond Extend glue.

[John TenEyck]

It's really quite simple and Howard explained it well. Wood placed under strain (bent) wants to relieve the stress that caused it. The only thing holding it in the strained position is the glue. Glue that is elastic will shear and the lamination will spring back, more or less. Glue that is rigid won't shear; some will fracture before they would creep. Bent laminations made with rigid glues don't spring back much. PVA glues are elastic; urea formaldehyde glues are rigid. PVA glues work for low stress lamination work; UF glues work for pretty much all lamination work. I had the seams of a shop sawn flat veneer panel made with cold press veneer glue curl after a couple of months. I've never had that happen with UF glues. I've had some bent laminations made using PVA glue spring back a lot. I've never had one made with UF glue spring back much at all.

John

[Bruce Kohl]

I agree with Dennis. I use regular Titebond as glue for bent laminations. Titebond II is a little thinner so you do get some glue creep, although it does have a longer set time. Use plenty of clamps and I leave the clamps on for at least a day so the glue can completely dry.