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John Hebert
03-17-2006, 2:59 PM
until I get old and feeble. Man.........I can't get nothin done around here! I throw that ball as far as I can, and before I can turn around..........she's back!
I'd be sawing logs down at the mill and she patiently waits in a crouched position for me to step on the ball she neatly places in my walking path while sawing. She KNOWS I have to stop and throw the damned thing! What's really funny is seeing her, and sawdust flying from the chain saw and she's covered with sawdust except for her eye's, that are fixated on that ball. Man.......what a silly pain in the neck
At least she's not as bad as my other one. I'd throw her a cut off to fetch and first thing you know she's runnin out with an 8' piece of trim I'd just finish shaping, and just lean it up against the wall (fair game territory) Geesh.......no more dogs till I retire!:rolleyes:

Jim Hager
03-17-2006, 3:39 PM
I thought you were retired CJ. Nobody who has to work everyday has time to play around like you are :D . Poor ole Denise has to go to work everyday just to support your habit.

The dog is just trying to get you to relax a little bit. Chill out. Man's best friend always knows best. Didn't your mom teach you anything:cool:

Steve Hayes
03-17-2006, 3:44 PM
My lab (Moose)is the same way. But when I'm on the lathe and look down at him and see that he's covered from head to paw with shavings it makes me laugh.

John Hemenway
03-17-2006, 3:48 PM
That's really funny! My dog understands the 'go get it' part, he's still working on the 'bring it back and drop it' part. More like, "I got it, now chase me and we can growl, snarl, etc. and have a good time!"

Count your blessings, at least the items come back!

John Keane
03-17-2006, 3:51 PM
What does that have to do with woodworking?

Tyler Howell
03-17-2006, 3:53 PM
Harley's figured out that if he knocks my mouse hand he can get me out of the Creek and get some attention:rolleyes:

Steve Hayes
03-17-2006, 3:58 PM
To get my attention Moose drops whatever he has on my foot. The 3 pound chew bone that he has really hurts. Hope he never learns to pick up a chisel or a skew.

John Hebert
03-17-2006, 4:10 PM
lighten up
"What does that have to do with woodworking?"
The entire post was about woodworking with a dog around. geeesh..... where's your sense of humor?:rolleyes:

Steve Hayes
03-17-2006, 5:01 PM
Guess his sense of humor has gone to the dogs. :)

John Hebert
03-17-2006, 5:03 PM
he might have OD'D on Geritol :D

Steve Hayes
03-17-2006, 5:12 PM
My dog Moose responds:
Woof Woof Woof Woooooof

Translation:
Feed me, walk me, feed me again. NOW!!! ;)

John Keane
03-17-2006, 5:32 PM
I don't have anything against dogs. I have loved a few of my own. I used to visit "The Oak" until it became an instant message forum for a few. Boneyfingers is the exception. He can be counted upon for solid woodworking opinions. I don't have anything against dogs. I have loved a few in my lifetime. This is a forum to enhance woodworking skills. If you want to talk about dogs then go to a dog forum.

Andy Hoyt
03-17-2006, 5:37 PM
Semper Fi, John.

John Hebert
03-17-2006, 5:39 PM
Boney was just as much into the banter as anyone my friend. We ALL cut up some.........life is to short to be serious all the time. If it makes you feel better, whenever you see my name on a post, just scroll on by my friend

John Keane
03-17-2006, 5:49 PM
Color it done!

Leroy Shugart
03-17-2006, 8:35 PM
sounds like there is a very large chip on someone's shoulder. (note the wood working subject)

J.D.Redwine
03-17-2006, 8:41 PM
I got some bench dogs. They stay pretty good though one gets loose now and then.

Dale Thompson
03-17-2006, 9:33 PM
Hi C John,
I lost my shop cat of eighteen years almost two years ago. The ache is STILL intense. I'm a REAL animal person and have had a couple of very beloved dogs also. I can't have any more cats because my SIL is VIOLENTLY allergic to their dandruff. :( He's a GREAT guy and has fathered my two beautiful grandkids so I can't just take him out and shoot him (even if I had water for my water gun). I can't, in good conscience, get another dog because we are gone so often and pets are not always welcome where we go. :(

The only BUDDY I have now is my granddog Indy. :) :) He's an Aussie and creates all of the problems for me that you mentioned in your post-when I am lucky enough to see him! :D Unfortunately, he lives 190 miles away. :(

Don't EVER complain. You are VERY lucky! :D :)

Dale T.

George Summers
03-17-2006, 9:37 PM
What does that have to do with woodworking?

Not a whole lot more than this thread to which you gladly posted.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33087

Nothing wrong with an occasional OT thread whether you like the subject or not.

George

David Fried
03-17-2006, 9:42 PM
Nothing wrong with an occasional OT thread whether you like the subject or not.

George

Exactly - that's why there is an Off Topic forum - avoids any questions.
When someone mentions wood shavings - well - I'll go for it!
My dogs avoid the shop but last week some kittens wandered in and explored. A sure sign of spring!!


Dave Fried

Tom Andersen
03-18-2006, 2:10 AM
I am planning to get a dog when I retire. Thought that it would be nice to have it around while working in the workshop. How do dogs react to noise from the machines? Do they get scared? Do they need hearing protection?:) Dogs have a pretty good hearing capability so I wonder whether it's painful for them to listen to a table saw or a chain saw?

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
03-18-2006, 4:13 AM
I don't have a dog now, my wife is just not a "Pet" person, and to be fair, we are VERY busy people, and I need to spend more time with my kids :rolleyes:

My uncle always had dogs around, and they got used to the noise, they would get out of the way when tools were run, and he had a spot for them in the shop that they were safe in, and could go there and relax.

On a similar note, I used to go to the track a lot with motorcycles, and these are full on race bikes, they are loud. I had a couple of friends who had dogs that went with them, the dogs were not bothered by the noise at all, they also learned to stay a safe distance from the noise :D.

I did see one guy's GF's dog go bonkers when the bikes started up, but that was one of them rat dog things, Paris Hilton kind of dogs, also, it had not been around bikes at all, and to be fair, I've seen my fair share of people jump and run away when they are too close to a race bike and it gets fired up :D


I used to visit "The Oak" until it became an instant message forum for a few. Boneyfingers is the exception. He can be counted upon for solid woodworking opinions. I don't have anything against dogs. This is a forum to enhance woodworking skills. If you want to talk about dogs then go to a dog forum.
First off, Mr. Keane, I take offense.

I've been a proud member at "The Oak" since shortly after I got on the internet in 1996, while I may not have the skills of some, I think I've contributed to a few things there, and here too, at SMC.

You sir have a problem with CJ, fine, but you are painting with a very broad brush, this is, to say the least, unkind, and very much un-SMC (sounds to me that your actions would fit right in at what you perceive goes on at the Oak :D)

Now just for fun, let's try this.....


I don't have anything against kids. This is a forum to enhance woodworking skills. If you want to talk about kids then go to a kid forum.

Would you be comfortable saying this?

I can think of a number of posts here in which people talk about thier kids, and I remember one post thread in particular with a huge number of replies and looks that a member here posted up about the passing of a dear member of the family, their beloved pet.

My point is it is obvious that you have some animosity towards CJ, fine, please do not pollute our SMC with it. If you feel strongly, PM a mod or use the yeild sign with an exclamation mark in it to report a post you think is inappropriate.

I hope you have a very nice weekend.

Cheers!

Dick Aubochon
03-18-2006, 6:44 AM
John,
I have an Australian Cattle Dog that is my workshop shadow. The nice thing is that when (not if) I screw something up he never points out the mistake to me, in fact he loves me all the more.

When I get up to Maine full time next month we'll have to let the dogs keep each other busy chasing that ball!!!!!!!

Good Post by the way..........the dog doesn't diminish what comes out of my "wood" shop".:D

Jim Davenport
03-18-2006, 7:36 AM
Dogzilla is my constant companion in the magic garage. He's usually pretty good. Although once in a while he gets a bug, and whines until he gets his deserved attention.
Cats on the other hand are "Evil" and don't belong in the shop.:rolleyes:
Here's a photo of an evil cat I caught trying to sneak into the Magic garage.:eek:

Bob Noles
03-18-2006, 8:00 AM
Dogzilla is my constant companion in the magic garage. He's usually pretty good. Although once in a while he gets a bug, and whines until he gets his deserved attention.
Cats on the other hand are "Evil" and don't belong in the shop.:rolleyes:
Here's a photo of an evil cat I caught trying to sneak into the Magic garage.:eek:

Jim,

That one is a keeper :p I am not a morning person, but it brought a big smile while sipping my coffee :D

Thanks....

Mark Singer
03-18-2006, 10:26 AM
I know what you mean! My big and small labs run the place.....Dexter is the little Lab (yes he kinda looks like a Chiuaua) and Java the 14 1/2 year old hungry all the time boy....

Steve Ash
03-18-2006, 2:25 PM
Someone on SMC once said something to the effect that if one creeker puts up a picture of his dog..then they all do.

My overfed AKC lab, constant shop companion, watchdog, Honey-Behr.

Rob Russell
03-18-2006, 6:32 PM
What does that have to do with woodworking?

John

If you notice, John Hebert posted this in the "Off Topic" forum. Take a look at the other active threads right now and you'll see that there are topics like Compact Flash Cards and Driving on the Beach which are active. That's the point of the OT Forum. It gives one a place to post non-woodworking topics.

If you don't want to read non-woodworking related posts, you might consider staying out of the OT forum and sticking mostly to the General, Nander, Finishing, Design and Turners forums.

In the meantime - IMO - you were out of line and owe JH an apology.

Rob

Andy Hoyt
03-18-2006, 6:44 PM
Okay, my turn to chime in.

Rob, sorry but this was originally upstairs in the WW section. Got moved overnight, so it was indeed off topic.

And I'm guessing, but I'm sure that's why John Keane asked his question.

But what really riles me is the nature of the responses to his post.

No one deserves that treatment, especially an honorable and retired career marine, and I thusly feel that it is he who is owed an apology.

Rob Russell
03-18-2006, 11:34 PM
Okay, my turn to chime in.

Rob, sorry but this was originally upstairs in the WW section. Got moved overnight, so it was indeed off topic.

And I'm guessing, but I'm sure that's why John Keane asked his question.

But what really riles me is the nature of the responses to his post.

No one deserves that treatment, especially an honorable and retired career marine, and I thusly feel that it is he who is owed an apology.

Well, if the post was originally in the General Forum, I'll apologize for that aspect of my post. If the post was originally in the General Forum, it would have been inappropriate for that subforum at SMC.

I will say, however, that John K's response seemed a bit sharp for what is the general tone of SMC. I'm familiar with The Oak and some of the rough-edged comraderie that flows at The Oak doesn't fit in at SMC. There are some very talented folks at The Oak, but the tone of that forum is different than SMC. John posted a sharp response and basically got back similarly-toned responses.

As far as treating John K. any differently just because he was a career marine, I have a problem with that. If John wants to post a sharp response, then he's opening himself up to equally sharp retorts. That fact that he may have served his country certainly wasn't part of his post or any of the responses and, IMO, is irrelevant to this discussion.

Before folks get their dander up about my lack of respect for those who serve - hold your horses. I'll give anyone who lays their life on the line to protect us the respect they are due. That needs to include, however, those folks who aren't in the armed forces but people like my policeman brother-in-law or firefighters.

Rob

Ken Fitzgerald
03-18-2006, 11:55 PM
And now here's my 0.02 worth.........

First the thread was in the wrong sub-forum to start with.........

2nd.....I thought complaint about same did seem a little terse..........

3rd .....other replies did seem to get a little terse too........

4th......I have nothing but respect for all persons who serve their country or fellow mankind......military...ex-military......police officers.....firefighters.......etc...........

5th.........Whether one served their country really didn't have anything to do with this thread....

6th......Didn't know of or have ever been to the Oak .......based on replies here.....I don't want to......

7th......I have nothing but respect for SMC'ers.........

8th......This thread started as somebody lamenting their pet....their beloved dog...............

9th.......Let's all lighten up .....Please!......LIfe's too short!:o

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
03-19-2006, 1:01 AM
And now here's my 0.02 worth.........

First the thread was in the wrong sub-forum to start with.........

2nd.....I thought complaint about same did seem a little terse..........

3rd .....other replies did seem to get a little terse too........

4th......I have nothing but respect for all persons who serve their country or fellow mankind......military...ex-military......police officers.....firefighters.......etc...........

5th.........Whether one served their country really didn't have anything to do with this thread....

6th......Didn't know of or have ever been to the Oak .......based on replies here.....I don't want to......

7th......I have nothing but respect for SMC'ers.........

8th......This thread started as somebody lamenting their pet....their beloved dog...............

9th.......Let's all lighten up .....Please!......Life's too short!:o
Well then, Ken, Andy and anyone else, the next time that something is posted in the general forum that might not possibly belong there, I expect you guys to jump in and say so.

The original post mentioned woodworking, it may not have been the only thing mentioned, but it was.

The response by John K. was obviously prompted by a dislike for John H. and that is where the problem started, IMHO, if John K. did not like John H's post, he should have reported it privately, by making a pointed post about it, he opens himself up to the terse responses he has received.

I'll also point out that Mr. C John Herbert is a vet, and a Marine as well.

Finally, all of this Oak bashing is leaving a foul taste in my mouth, I was a member at the Oak when Kip was still around, and that predates SMC by some time. I'm a member here now too, and I like both places, if someone here does not like the Oak, fine, don't go there, if someone at the Oak does not like SMC, fine stay at the Oak, but I have to say that I'm starting to feel like a second class citizen here, because I do like the Oak and the friends I have there, but I don't like coming here and having to listen to a lot of Oak bashing, "Bad Form", I would say.


Here is a quick list of threads posted in the "General Forum" that could, could, be in the wrong place, depending on how you want to interpert "General Woodworking and Power Tools".........

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33010
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33003
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33056
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32971
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33039
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33031
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33035
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33059
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33029
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33091
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33068
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33102
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32679
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33138
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33155
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33151
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33184
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33181
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32972

Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with any of these posts just where they are, but I could see how someone could, if they wanted to make a point about it, they could say that these, or some of these posts are in the wrong spot.

Now if that same someone has an axe to grind with the thread starter...... :rolleyes:

Just my thoughts, I'm heading back to the Dungeon.

Cheers!:D

Curt Fuller
03-19-2006, 1:02 AM
Sounds like we all might need to go make some sawdust and shavings, sniff a little lacquer, or maybe get someone to help us get that splinter out of our behind.

Sit, Shake, Good Boy, now go lay down.

Gary Herrmann
03-19-2006, 2:19 AM
Well spoken, Curt.

Put another way, heres my favorite TV dog quote.

"Sit, Ubu, sit. Good dog. Woof."

Next black lab baby I have will probably be named Ubu.

My dogs don't stay in the shop much. Probably because of the noise, mostly. But also, I'm usually focused on what I'm doing, so not paying attention to them other than the idle pet here and there, and they know they can get their needs met upstairs.

Peter Stahl
03-19-2006, 6:25 AM
Hey John, you just need one of those potato cannons to launch that ball a lot further. I'd miss my dogs if they died and doubt I'd get another. Kids wanted them when they were little but guess who wound up taking care of them. I hope you don't let some of these guys bother you. Would love to see put up a log cabin progress post.

Rob Russell
03-19-2006, 8:27 AM
Finally, all of this Oak bashing is leaving a foul taste in my mouth, I was a member at the Oak when Kip was still around, and that predates SMC by some time. I'm a member here now too, and I like both places, if someone here does not like the Oak, fine, don't go there, if someone at the Oak does not like SMC, fine stay at the Oak, but I have to say that I'm starting to feel like a second class citizen here, because I do like the Oak and the friends I have there, but I don't like coming here and having to listen to a lot of Oak bashing, "Bad Form", I would say.


Stu,

I hope you haven't misinterpreted my comments as "Oak-bashing". The Oak may well be the oldest continuous woodworking forum going if predates the rec.woodworking one. Even if it's not the oldest, it has definitely been around for a long time. As you say - you have friends there and that's partly because the Oak has been around for so long that there are some long-term relationships which have formed.

The Oak has a few different characteristics than SMC. Note that I'm not saying "better" or "worse" - just different. An example of that is the language we are allowed to use. The SMC hosts decided that they will not allow any profanity, not even the kind where you substitute a $ for an s in a commonly used 4-letter word that begins with S. Sherry is more liberal in terms of what language she allows on her forum. That language is an example of what I would call a rough-edge. Another example is the comraderie that only comes from being a long-running forum and generates the teasing CJ gets around "paint cans". Again - note that I'm not bashing the Oak, just noting that it's different than SMC. Do I think either forum is better than the other - definitely not.

I'd also agree with some other folks who've said we need to get back to woodworking. I'm going outside to unload the lumber I picked up from the sawyer yesterday.

Rob

Jim Hager
03-19-2006, 9:21 AM
Alright enough already:D The teacher in me needs to step in here and make a few points.

First I am a proud member of the oak, I have been for a long time, likely as long as Stu. For a long time I didn't post but lurked. I remember the first time I posted and someone pounced on me I went back to lurking for a while. You have to understand the atmosphere of the oak in order to participate and not go away with your feelings hurt. I'll admit that sometimes we get a bit out of line but that is about as much as I get out of line anywhere. Not too bad. Just a bunch of good buddies having a good time and sharing some knowledge. I really miss the oak and will probably be back there once it comes back on line but if it is alright with you guys I'll still hang around here too.

I remember when the badger pond went down and a lot of you guys visited at the oak and felt rather intimidated. Seems like that there were a few scraps flying then too. You just didn't know yet how to fit in. Maybe some of us oakers don't fit in just right yet but given time we will. This situation with our web home going away is just as rough on us as it was for some of you when the badger pond went away. At least Wayne gave some prior notice that it was going to happen.

I appreciate the fact that I have been welcomed here. Thanks guys. I have been hanging here for about a year but my favorite site was the oak. Don't seem like anybody seemed to care but maybe that was because I can't use my alias here. I've gone by bonyfingers on the oak since the beginning.

Please allow some tolerance for those who are looking for their new web home until we understand the terms of service on SMC. It is a wonderful place to have to make friends and share knowledge.


I stand with Stu on defense of the fine people that made up theoak.com


All that being said now go back to making sawdust without further fussin.:o

George Summers
03-19-2006, 9:53 AM
As I implied in my first post to this thread, John had a problem with CJ posting an OT subject in the General forum, but he himself, as I pointed out in the link, has posted, without reservation, to an OT thread in the same forum. Two old adages come to mind, 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' and 'Whats good for the goose is good for the gander'. Perhaps John was just having an off day as we all do from time to time so now that we've all been heard, we can drop the subject.

George

Lee DeRaud
03-19-2006, 10:45 AM
First the thread was in the wrong sub-forum to start with.........

2nd.....I thought complaint about same did seem a little terse..........

3rd .....other replies did seem to get a little terse too........

5th.........Whether one served their country really didn't have anything to do with this thread....

6th......Didn't know of or have ever been to the Oak .......based on replies here.....I don't want to......Stu kinda summed up my feelings on this subject, but hey, I'm not one to let my vote go uncounted. Taking the quoted points in order:
1. Yeah, it happens, nothing to get upset about.
2. If by "terse" you mean "the kind of crap you'd expect to see on Usenet", yup, no argument there.
3. If by "terse" you mean "somebody was needlessly rude (see #3) and got called on it", yup, that's what happened. And that's what should have happened, IMHO.
5&6. A poster's former occupation, up to and including pope, does not constitute a free pass to be rude. (And if I'm not going to cut someone slack for being a Marine, trust me, their former forum affiliation means less than zero.)

Jim Davenport
03-19-2006, 10:52 AM
Since I've come to "The creek", I've been impressed by the civility, and lack of rancor compared to the other sites.
Come on guys let's stop obsessing on some indescrete comments.
Your embarrassing Dogzilla, He was looking over my shoulder.:rolleyes:

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
03-19-2006, 11:06 AM
Stu,

I hope you haven't misinterpreted my comments as "Oak-bashing".

No Sir, I did not, but thanks much for the clarification.

Nice wood, what is it? :D

Rob Russell
03-19-2006, 4:14 PM
Nice wood, what is it? :D

Oak - what else :D? Lengths range from 10' to 14'.

Ken Fitzgerald
03-19-2006, 5:53 PM
Folks..........for my part in this thread.......

I apologize to anyone that I might have offended.

I would never intentionally offend or insult anyone unless, of course, cornered and dander forced up. But that was not the case.

I came to the Creek from other less civil sites. I don't understand why people can't communicate without belittling others.....That's what I enjoy most about the Creek .............civil interaction between woodworkers.

I just meant that the facts that were being boiled up were too trivial on which to waste time and effort.

Obviously I miscommunicated my intentions.

I apologize...........:o

Mark Singer
03-19-2006, 8:25 PM
Since I've come to "The creek", I've been impressed by the civility, and lack of rancor compared to the other sites.
Come on guys let's stop obsessing on some indescrete comments.
Your embarrassing Dogzilla, He was looking over my shoulder.:rolleyes:
It may have nothing to do with woodworking.....but, that is a handsome dog!

Dale Thompson
03-19-2006, 9:13 PM
I would never intentionally offend or insult anyone unless, of course, cornered and dander forced up. I apologize...........:o

Hey Fitz,
Have you been insulting me behind my back AGAIN?? :confused: Well, whatever you said, please be assured that I am offended, insulted and will NEVER recover my frail self-esteem! ;) :)

I tried to end it all today! :( I turned off the pilots on the stove, opened all the burners and laid down to take my LAST nap! :eek: I'll be danged if I didn't wake up an hour later to discover that the Gas Co. had turned off my gas!! :mad: :)

AW WELL! Fate had its chance and messed up - BIG TIME!! ;) :eek:

Dale T.

Steve Hayes
03-20-2006, 4:43 PM
Wow! all this because we told a couple of stories about our crazy dogs. Glad I didn't mention Pepe, the shop burro.

Lee DeRaud
03-20-2006, 4:48 PM
Glad I didn't mention Pepe, the shop burro.That's a whole separate issue: we don't discuss politics here, so mentioning jackasses or elephants is Not Allowed.:p

Robert Mickley
03-20-2006, 5:29 PM
That's a whole separate issue: we don't discuss politics here, so mentioning jackasses or elephants is Not Allowed.:p

not even the Pink elephants I used to see in my younger days :D

Vaughn McMillan
03-20-2006, 5:38 PM
...Glad I didn't mention Pepe, the shop burro.
Here I'd managed to stay out of this thread for the duration, but then you go and post something like this. Definitely a LOL moment. :p

We now return to our regularly scheduled bitch-fest...

- Vaughn

Scott Coffelt
03-20-2006, 5:54 PM
Man, I haven't seen this many bunched panties in I don't how long.... can someone please get a few cocobola or QSWO panty extractors out.

For the new folks, welcome all, contrary to many other boards, here at SMC we do have some rules and in general folks here are just fine with them. We also do like to have topics fall into the relevant categories, mainly due the fact there are many contributing members and if we lumped into one area, it may get a little overwhelming... then again, these days i just choose to select the New Posts option listed above.

We do kid around here, just not to the level of the regulars on the Oak. Most left there have been there for many, many years and it is much like a very tight small family. Profanity is not to be used here, mainly because we can all get our point across without using it and we do have some younger members and also women folk, though I;ve seen many who can cuse me out with the best of em, we just choose to keep it a little cleaner. FWIW, I also seen some other sites make a real effort to clean up their acts as well lately.

You'll see we do try and talk about design (though not nearly as much), tools heck that seems to encompass most of us most of the time, and we have a few manufacturer focused sites, which has been a nice benefit as it has reduced some of the brand x vs brand y battles, we sure are passionate about our tools. One last thing, pictures are a must or we do not believe it happened... nope, can't prove it without a picture... especially when Tyler is on the prowl.

Man, that was long. For me, not dogs just cats, but they're not allowed in the shop cause my cyclone will eat them for lunch.:p