Problem with Festool? How to throw it away?

[Dev Emch]

O.K. I finally got to play with a festool sander with the vacum cleaner hooked up to it. Aside from more plastic than I am familar with, it worked pretty darn neat. The sander left not one bit of dust lying about. Impressive!

But here is my issue with using shop vacs for DC. I have used a Ridid vac for this and its irritating. The super fine dust clogs up the pleat filter to the point where its almost useless. And its a big barrel afare with no baggies.

I guess Porter Cable and Festool solved this problem by forcing us to use vac dust bags made of paper. That way, the super fine stuff is kept from the smaller pleat filters. I also noticed the Festool had two of the HEPA type pleat filters.

So I assume we have to use the paper vac bags when using one of these right? Is this not an extra expense? Under high use, you can fill up one of those vac bags in a hurry and everything festoolie sells is expenisve. Maybe for sanding, this is not as bad as I am envisioning. What do you guys think who have these? I guess you can attach the cost of the bag to a shop fee which is a blanket charge applied to every major job. Covers clean up and other misc. charges you incure each time you embark on a major job.

Or would I be better off to just attach the sander directly to the main line DC system and forget about the cute little puppy dog that tags along? Right now, my biggest culprit is super fines. I really need to do something about this junk. The planer and jointer dont produce this. ITs often the table saw cutting sheet goods and the sanders. MDF is the worst and I will not touch the stuff because of this. But even baltic birch produces enough of it to make it pain.

So I am looking for suggestions on this vac in particular and in upgrades to the DC in general to combat the wrath of the super fines!

Thanks

[Ed Labadie]

Dev,
Really, it's not as bad as you envision.
The Festool vac packs the sawdust into the bag like you wouldn't believe. It really doesnt seem to matter which tool its from either, granted using the circular saw or hooking up a bisquit jointer will fill it faster than a sander, but it really can't be compared to a shop vac that just drops the sawdust in the drum.
The filters do not need cleaning very often either.

Ed

[Jim Hager]

I have taken to vaccuming out the paper bags with my dust collector and recycling them. My dust collector exhausts directly outside to the ground so I don't even have to clean up that mess but about once a year. I hate pitching out the bags after they fill so I just got that idea the other day and tried it. Works just fine. I have the CT mini so it doesn't even have the option of purchasing the reusable bags like some of the other festool vacs have. Try it, you'll like it;)

[Bill White]

Dev,
I use a Ridgid vac too, but I added the better pleated filter to mine (and a muffler too). Now I don't have a Festool sander, but my PC 5" hooks up by means of a reducer to the vac, and I have no problems. Just a thought.....
Bill

[Greg Tatum]

STOP using it imediatly and send it to me...problem solved;) :D

Seriously though...I don't have one(Festool) but I too use the ridgid with a ROS and have the same problem with the filter....lots of fines....

[Michael Ballent]

Dev, I use the Fein Turbo II as my shop vac which I connect to sanders, biscuit cutter, pocket hold jig etc. It has a cloth filter inside that is reusable. I recently found this little toy that looks intriguing.

http://clearvuecyclones.com/ShopVacVideoSmall.wmv

It's a mini cyclone for a shop vac that connects between the dust producer and shop vac. The video above shows how it works. Pretty clever IMO :D

[Frank Pellow]

Festool sells a reusable bag for both their CT_22 and CT_33 vacs. I have one for the CT_22 and it's very easy to attach/detach and very easy to empty (without spreading the contents back into the air and onto the floor).

[Brent Harral]

I think there is a re-usuable bag for the CT and the mini - maybe take a look at those. I use the diposables and just chaulk it up to the cost of doing business and having such good fine dust control. I used to go right to my big DC, but I use the CT vac for EVERYTHING handheld I can, because the collection is so good. As said, it does pack it in good and if your using it for mostly ROSing, it will take a good while to fill up. Even using it with the 55 saw, it can go pretty long without filling up.

[Matt Meiser]

I was going to suggest the Clearvue mini cyclone too. Oneida also is now making one. You could use that in your shop, then when you want to take the vac with you, just unhook the hoses and go.

[Dev Emch]

Michael...
The problem with any cylcone is that they let the super fines thru. The nice chunkies are easy to deal with. Its those pesky super fines that settle on everything in the shop.

To all...

I am still wondering if were not all better off just using the main line dust collector for the sander? Then you can put your money into beefing up the dust filter stage. I saw one dust filter used on media blasters by TIP which had a big box with a glass window. In it were a few tubular cloth dust filters. At the bottom is a drawer. There is a shaker lever that shakes the several stocking like filter tubes and drops the fines into the drawer. At the end of this box you can add an optional HEPA like filter as well. Looked like a cool project to build as well.

[Michael Ballent]

I think that a DC would not be as effective being hooked up to a sander... DC works by moving a lot of air. Shop vacs move a little air but move it fast, so they are more effective considering that the small tools you connect have very restrictive air flow. Each tool has its purpose and DCs are meant for big tools and shop vac are for the little tools. :D

[Don Baer]

Dev, I use the Fein Turbo II as my shop vac which I connect to sanders, biscuit cutter, pocket hold jig etc. It has a cloth filter inside that is reusable. I recently found this little toy that looks intriguing.

http://clearvuecyclones.com/ShopVacVideoSmall.wmv

It's a mini cyclone for a shop vac that connects between the dust producer and shop vac. The video above shows how it works. Pretty clever IMO :D

What michael said it true about using the DC vs the vacuum. I've got one of the mini cyclones on my short list just for this reason.

[Frank Pellow]

I think that a DC would not be as effective being hooked up to a sander... DC works by moving a lot of air. Shop vacs move a little air but move it fast, so they are more effective considering that the small tools you connect have very restrictive air flow. Each tool has its purpose and DCs are meant for big tools and shop vac are for the little tools. :D
Right on, Michael!

[Mark Carlson]

Dev,

I agree with Ed. The Festool bags take forever to fill up and arn't very expensive. I have a shop vac that just sits there doing nothing. Its way to noisy, the filters get clogged very quickly and its a pain to empty and clean. I keep my shop vac for water cleanup only. The Festool vacs are relatively quiet, the hepa filters dont get dirty, and empting is a breeze because of the bags with a hole you just cap and toss in the trash. I also attach my Festool vac to my tablesaw blade guard to pick up dust comming off the blade.

~mark

[Frank Pellow]

I think there is a re-usuable bag for the CT and the mini - maybe take a look at those.
...

RRe-usable bags are only available for the CT models, not for the Mini.

[Frank Pellow]

...
I keep my shop vac for water cleanup only.
...

With the "dirt trap" accessory, a Festool vac can also be used for water cleanup. :) I know, becuase I used mine to clean up after our basement flooded last autumn. :(

[Scott Parks]

Dev, I don't use my shop vac anymore, due to cloggin the filter. I have the F CT22 vac, since Oct, and have yet to fill a bag. I use it on the circular saw, biscuit jointer, and with the sander. I even used it on drywall dust the other day, and it is still only half full, AND, it is not clogged. THe HEPA filters are spotless!
Of course, I don't use it on a daily basis....

[Joe Spear]

I use the regular paper Festool bags and just empty them out. I did it last Monday. As long as your hands aren't wet and you are careful handling them, they can be filled and emptied many times. You also should shake out the rectangular pleated filters, which can also be reused many times. I didn't even realize that Festool made "reusable" bags since I have always been reusing the regular ones.

[Ian Barley]

I don't have the festool but have a bag technology "Henry" style vacuum. I Don't even think of it as emptying a bag. I consider it to be changing a filter. Don't skimp on your lungs.

[Joe Spear]

Reusing the bags doesn't seem to have any effect on their ability to filter out the dust, at least for the four or five times I reuse them. I work in a small area, and there is no dust residue on anything after I sand (drywall compound or wood) or cut (wood or mdf), even allowing several hours for anything to settle out of the air. The additional pleated filter may have a lot to do with that.

[John Keane]

I recently bought a Festool 125 ( 5" ROS). I also bought the hose to fit my 16 Gal Shop Vac. Festool without the Vacuum was excellent. Festool with my Shop Vac not so good. Why? Too much vacuum. Made the Festool "sticky". It impeded its orbital action. End result bought the Extractor. Pricey; yes. If it gives full potential to the ROS then in my opinion it is worth it.

[Per Swenson]

Hey Dev, Hello all,

Ahh man, let me wrap my brain around this,

I own $1500 worth of festool sanders, not one but two

Ct22e collectors, about $1000 worth of instock paper at all times,

Like you I do this for a living or lets say I sell what ever I make.

So I should quibble over vacume bags?

The day I worry about things like garbage bags, sawblades, sandpaper

you know, consumables. Is the day I throw the business model out

in the trash and become a wage slave in a beige cubicle.

Sorry to be so harsh Dev, but you do live and work near Aspen.


Per

[Rye Crane]

Hi Dev,

I have the CT33, have used it for everything, routing, sawing, sanding and the bag takes a huge time to fill. Jerry Work has suggested if you want to reuse the bag to make an incision in the side and let your DC suck it out. Problem with that is you expose yourself to the fines that will kill you. They are only 5 or 6 bucks and I use one every other month. Not an issue here.

Best of luck.
Rye Crane

[John Keane]

Happy St. Patricks's Day to my fellow 'Creekers". I just bought the CT 22, and you have gladdened my heart. The price took some getting use too. Your contributions indicate that the investment was a good one.

[Scott Vigder]

If you are producing that much fine dust, why not install (or build) a downdraft table and use your big DC to catch it all? I'm in the process of designing one based on several I have seen because I'm sick and tired of my shopvac hose interfering with my sanding motion.

[Steve Clardy]

150/3 sander with a fein mini. I just dump and reuse the bags.
Done tried the dc route. Adapting from 4" to 1" is a pita, and the suction sucks. Just doesn't work.

[Dev Emch]

With the "dirt trap" accessory, a Festool vac can also be used for water cleanup. :) I know, becuase I used mine to clean up after our basement flooded last autumn. :(

Now you mention this! Ohhhh Mannnnn, where were you about ONE week ago when I was greated with the same. IT didnt occur to me to use a festool vac... instead I rented one of those rug doctors.

[Dev Emch]

Hey Dev, Hello all,

Ahh man, let me wrap my brain around this,

I own $1500 worth of festool sanders, not one but two

Ct22e collectors, about $1000 worth of instock paper at all times,

Like you I do this for a living or lets say I sell what ever I make.

So I should quibble over vacume bags?

The day I worry about things like garbage bags, sawblades, sandpaper

you know, consumables. Is the day I throw the business model out

in the trash and become a wage slave in a beige cubicle.

Sorry to be so harsh Dev, but you do live and work near Aspen.


Per

The Per-Miester has a point!:D

[Brian King]

Hello Dev,
I used this trick for sanding drywall. It works very well. I leave the pleated filter in the ShopVac and install one of their bag filters in the tank. They sell 2 grades of bags for it. The best one should catch all the fine stuff.
You can take out the pleated filter if you like but it does no harm to leave it in there.
My.02.
Brian

[Chris Barton]

So, for at least the Ridgid vac, here is an answer. Get a discarded pair of pany hose, cut the legs off after tying them together at the crotch, and pull them over the pleated filter on the vac as a "pre-filter." This keeps the pleats from clogging and extends the life of the filter at least 20 fold. When the vac starts to pull hard (motor running faster because of lack of air flow, simply brush off the panty hose pre-filter with a brush to free the collected dust. I have been doing this for years and it works great.

[Tom Clevenger]

Hi All

First post here but member of Woodnet for awhile. I have the CT-22 and just slit the paper tape on the end of the bag, dump it out and retape it. I use it for biscuits, MT on the Leigh FMT so it fills up quick. I can reuse it a few times and then toss it.

Yea, I'm cheap...

Nice place here, seems higher class than Woodnet.

[Brandon Shew]

My dust collector exhausts directly outside to the ground so I don't even have to clean up that mess but about once a year.

Don't you worry about attracting termites down there in AR by leaving all that nice food outside your shop for them? I'm in Va Beach and I can barely mulch my garden without worrying about those little bastards - of course I'm in a wood framed house and detached garage which is an attraction enough.

[Dev Emch]

So, for at least the Ridgid vac, here is an answer. Get a discarded pair of pany hose, cut the legs off after tying them together at the crotch, and pull them over the pleated filter on the vac as a "pre-filter." This keeps the pleats from clogging and extends the life of the filter at least 20 fold. When the vac starts to pull hard (motor running faster because of lack of air flow, simply brush off the panty hose pre-filter with a brush to free the collected dust. I have been doing this for years and it works great.
I am sorry Chris, but I am laughing my behind off.:D O.K. Let me get this straight, I need to first source a pair of used panty hose.... no easy task for a single guy. Boy will I get the looks when I go to the 7-11 and purchase some pany hose. But its for my dust collector! Yah, right Pal. Whatever you say. That will twenty five bucks please.

P.S. Twenty five bucks... I could buy a pack of Festool filter bags for that.

[Jason Roehl]

Another option, though I haven't gotten around to trying it yet myself, is to buy the pleated shopvac filters that have a GoreTex coating (or are made from it, whatever). They claim that their slick surface allows dust to fall off the filter, reducing/eliminating clogging. I'm guessing that one would have to occasionally turn off the vac for this to happen. I think they are about $20, and are intended to last quite a while. Until I get around to actually using one, I'm still using the bags, and I've not found them to be very expensive compared to the amount of time they save me in other methods of clean-up, or the reduced airflow from a clogged filter.

[Chris Barton]

I am sorry Chris, but I am laughing my behind off.:D O.K. Let me get this straight, I need to first source a pair of used panty hose.... no easy task for a single guy. Boy will I get the looks when I go to the 7-11 and purchase some pany hose. But its for my dust collector! Yah, right Pal. Whatever you say. That will twenty five bucks please.

P.S. Twenty five bucks... I could buy a pack of Festool filter bags for that.

Well, I figure you could hit a dollar store an get a pair for very nearly a couple of bucks. Then you can save at least one leg of the pair to wear over your head while you hold up the 7-11...:eek: