Raised Panel Bits and Router Plates

[Matt Meiser]

Couple questions for those of you who have some experience with building raised panel doors on the router table. First question, do you use the back cutter bits or not? If not, how thick do you make your door panels?

Next question is on router plates. My router table is based on a Rockler top with the 8x10 plate and uses a Dewalt DW621 router. This plate has a 3-1/4" hole. Unfortunately most bits seem to be at least 3-1/4" or larger. MLCS is about the only place that makes smaller bits with the back cutter at 3-1/8". Without a back cutter, there seem to be a few more choices, but still pretty limited. Therefore, I'm thinking about upgrading to a different plate. Rockler has a larger alumninum plate for about $70 + $10 for a template. Peachtree Woodworking, and I'm sure others has a Rousseau plate for about $35 + $15 for the template, but its phenolic. Other brands of aluminum plates are more than either of these options. Is the phenolic plate going to work well long, or should I shell out for the aluminum?

[Vaughn McMillan]

Matt, when I was recently shopping for a new router plate to replace my Rockler 8x10 aluminum one, I had several folks here tell me their Rousseau plate had a crown...it's apparently not perfectly flat. For me, that's a deal-breaker. I really liked the Woodpeckers aluminum plate, but I wasn't willing to spend quite that much money. I ended up buying the Woodpeckers phenolic plate (http://woodpeck.com/tlrphenolicplate.html). I haven't installed it yet, but it seems to be as flat as anything I've measured it with. It seems that most of the manufacturers have their own "standard" plate size. Part the reason I went with the Woodpeckers plate is that the 9 1/4" x 11 3/4" size is also what they use for their lifts, and I might consider buying one some day down the road. (I'll know better after I get the new M12V, plate, and Router Raizer assembled and tried out.)

- Vaughn

[Jim Becker]

As to the cutters, I don't prefer integral back-cutters. I like to do that as a separate setup operation if it's necessary as I also prefer to sneak up on the final cut with cutter height rather than adjusting the fence as you must do with a back-cutter equipped bit.

I have one of the older Rout-R-Lifts from JessEm and it's hole is big enough for my normal Freud raised panel bit. This is a machined aluminum plate. I generally recommend a metal plate for supporting a heavy router, although a 3/8" thick phenolic plate should also do the job. If I were ever to change lifts, it would likely be for the Bench Dog...I just happen to like it's cast iron construction.

[Jerry Olexa]

Agree with Jim: a backcutter prevents you from gradually taking off material with the big raised panel bit. I do the back cuts later separately after panel is shaped. My 2 cents IMHO. Also there are smaller raised panel bits (diameter) as well as a different plate options..

[Bob Johnson2]

I've got the Woodpecker aluminum plungelift, but you can buy it as just the plate w/rings if you want to save some $. It replaced a phenolic plate that sagged after a few years holding up my Delta 625.

[Charlie Plesums]

When I use the router bits, I use the back cutter. When I use the shaper cutters, I make a shallow pass with the front cutter to cut the back of the panel. (My shaper has a digital readout on the height, so that is really easy).

Most of the cutters leave the edge 1/4 inch thick, and cut corresponding 1/4 inch slots in the rails and stiles. Which go with the space balls that are 0.26 inches in diameter.

Two common approaches for raised panels for 3/4 inch thick cabinet doors...

Make the panel 3/4 inch thick also, but carefully adjust the depth of cut so that the front of the raised panel is flush with the front of the rails and stiles, and the back of the panel is flush with the back of the rails and stiles.
Make the panel 5/8 inch thick. If all works well, the front is the same and you don't need the back cutter (or if you have it, it doesn't do anything except help with alignment).Before you panic about the router plate, try putting the panel cutter in the router. On my old router, everyone would panic over the ears, and some even cut them off, but the panel cutter didn't come close. Not always true, but it was in my case.

If you want to make multiple passes without adjusting your fence, clamp a 1/4 or 1/2 inch piece of plywood to the fence, and cut through it like a zero clearance insert. Add and remove the plywood for the passes.

[CPeter James]

I make my panels 5/8" and the edge thickness is 1/4" and the stand a hair proud of the rails and styles. I have a separate back cutter, but don't often use it.

CPeter

[Mike Alagna]

I use raised panel pits all the time for doors. I use 3/4" thick panels and I use the freud 4 wing panel bit with back cutter. Other then when I am milling MDF I make a few passes so that I don't take off all of the material at one time. The bits are great and with the 4 wing cutter because the two small wings are set at a different angle to the larger wings the finish is glass smooth. I have taken full passes on cherry and oak with perfect results but I still prefer multiple passes which is not a problem at all even with the back cutter.

[Larry Fox]

I have a CMT raised panel set with a back-cutter and they have performed very well for me. I take several shallow passes and have been satisfied with the results.

[Anthony Anderson]

Matt, I have had the phenolic plate in my table for almost two years, and no problems. I have a 3.5hp dedicated router mounted in the table. It does have a slight crown but has not been an issue. It is reasonably priced, and I can buy inserts to make zero clearance when necessary. I think Rockler came out with their plates with the smaller holes because their raised panel bits are a smaller diameter. Thinking that people who used their plates would be locked into buying their raised panel bits. Now many people are in your situation. Hence, now Rockler has a new plate with the larger hole. $35 is a no brainer

As for the thickness of the panel: 5/8 if you don't want to cut the relief on the back to allow the panel to sit flush with the face of the door frame.

3/4" if you want a thicker panel, and don't mind cutting the relief.

Personally I like the panel cutter without a backcutter. You can tweak the thickness of the tongue to suit your tastes. But saying that, I recently bought a set of door bits with the backcutter to try out during Amazon's Freud sale. I figured worst case I can still remove a smidge during a second operation if needed, while the backcutter bit removed most of the wood for the relief. HTH, Regards, Bill

[Matt Meiser]

I looked at the Woodpecker's plate and am seriously considering their phenolic plate.

[Norman Hitt]

Matt, if you're not in a REAL Hurry to make a purchase, and are interested in one of the Woodpeckers plates, (or lifts/which is built on a plate), sign up for their e-mails, as they have sales quite often, and the prices at those times are quite cost effective. Their stuff is real quality.

Note: I have not personally seen their phenolic plates, but do have first hand experience with one of their lifts with the aluminum plate with an M-12V attached).

[Vaughn McMillan]

Matt, I installed the Woodpecker phenolic plate, the Router Raizer, and the new M12V tonight. I also bought the template and Whiteside bit they sell for cutting the recess in the RT top. It was a smart decision -- even I didn't screw up the installation beyond repair. (I did my first cut with the router depth set too shallow, and ended up cutting a small chunk out of the template. Nothing a bit of Bondo and about 15 minutes couldn't fix. :o The table recess came out perfectly.) I can't detect any crown in the plate at all, and the 8-point leveling system works very well. I haven't had a chance to try any cuts that would require super tight tolerances, but the few cuts I did were smooth with no vibration. It sure looks like this'll be a good combination.

Now that I have the M12V installed in the Rockler extension wing on the left side of the TS (better for using the Incra jig), I'm considering re-installing my smaller homemade extension on the right side. It's already set up for the smaller Rockler router plate, and I've got a spare P-C 690 base already attached to it. I'll gain about another foot of table space (although most of the time it'd be beneath the Incra jig and inaccessible), and have the capability to set up two router tables differently if need be. Seems a waste to have the old extension taking up space in the shop when, for a few bolts and about 15 minutes of my time, I could just re-install it. (I think I just talked myself into it. ;) )

- Vaughn

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Matt

I have the Rousseau plate, and installed with the router hung from it, it is dead flat, end of story.

I have a Rockler rail and stile set, I don't use the back cutter, and my rails and stiles are 3/4" (19mm) and my panels are 5/8" (16mm). This leaves my panels slightly raised (they are supposed to be "Raised" panels....no?;)).

If I had a big drum sander, that I could flatten everything with, I'd make the panels, rails and stiles all flush.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lesson_room/doors_waiting.jpg

Like that.... :D

Cheers!

[Matt Meiser]

I went to the local tool place and looked at the Rousseau plate. He pulled out a straight edge and put it on the plate on their display. Dead flat. So I bought one and bought the template. $63 out the door, and it went into the local economy which is always a bonus.