Tool Rests.....

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have just the one long 12" tool rest for my lathe, I can buy a shorter one, 6", but I want to have some curved ones for bowls etc...

Now the problem, the hole in the banjo is 22mm, and I've not been able to find any solid stock that is 22mm. I can find 25m and 19mm but not 22.

I did find that the thick walled galvanized gas pipe is just a hair under 22mm, seems to be close enough.

What I'm thinking of doing is using this pipe, and welding whatever tool rest I want to it, cut a notch in the pipe, and stick the horizontal piece in there and go at it.

Is this a BAD thing to do...?

Will the pipe fail...?

Cheers!

[doug webb]

I don't do mm......but.. Would the 19mm fit inside your 22mm water pipe? I can't see the pipe failing in that short a piece. But they may make them solid for a reason. Welding galv requires GOOD ventilation. Would the cost of a machine shop making a 3-4 foot piece of 22 out of the 25 be too much? That would give you a bunch of post material. Sorry to be no help.....long curlies.....doug

[tod evans]

try it..02 tod

[John D Watson]

Stu, I'd grind the zinc off that pipe a ways down before welding (you don't want to breath that stuff) and with good fit and penitration all around it should be plenty strong.

[Jim Davenport]

Stu, please don't, I repeat please don't weld Galvinized pipe. Here's a link to the death of Jim Paw Paw Wilson from metal poisoning.
http://anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/
Paw Paw was pretty famous in the black smith community.
I have been a welder for many years, and have know others who have died from metal poisoning. You can probably get away with welding galvinize most of the time, but why chance it? It's not worth the risk.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Doug, the problem is finding a machine shop, I'm not kidding...

If I could, I would go that route, as it would be the best thing.

Tod, I think I will :D

John, I learned that one way, way back in highschool.... cough, cough...wheeze.... :(

Thanks Guys!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Jim, thanks for the concern, I'm VERY aware of the dangers, and I grind the galvanized stuff off BIG time.

Cheers!

I also use a respirator when welding, not that it will keep everything bad out, just that it keeps the dirt out!

[Harry Pye]

Stu-

How about another approach? Can you drill the banjo out to 25mm? Seems a whole lot easier and less risky.

[Tim Beauregard]

Is there maybe a metal shop that can turn down some 25 mm bar to 22 mm for ya? I used to work at a place that had a metal lathe. There was a guy that would use it in his off hours to make parts for his boat.

Regards,
Tim B.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I thought of that, but a 25mm drill bit is EXPENSIVE and a special order.....

It may just be the way I go in the end.

Cheers!

[Charles McKinley]

Just buy a metal lathe! ;)

I hear it is even more adictive. he he he

Just tryingto help.:D

[Bart Leetch]

Grind the Galvanize off & go for it . I made this rest when I was about 14 to turn bowels on my Dad's Craftsman lathe. Dad had both the 3" & the 12" tool rest but I wanted a rest the would let me reach into deep bowels. I was very careful to make only light cuts & it seemed to work very well.

[Jim Davenport]

Jim, thanks for the concern, I'm VERY aware of the dangers, and I grind the galvanized stuff off BIG time.

Cheers!

I also use a respirator when welding, not that it will keep everything bad out, just that it keeps the dirt out!
If your welding pipe, you can't grind off the inside. There's still Zinc that's in the pores of the metal.
I hate to be obsessive about this but you're a young man with a family. The risks are not worth taking chances with. Back when I was young and "Dumb" I used to do a lot of things. I thought I was safe grinding zinc off of material. I observed that my welds were not of good quality. I now know that the poor welds were caused by "Zinc inclusion".
Here's some more information:


<CENTER>WELDING ON GALVANIZED METALS</CENTER>
One of the most significant health hazards in the welding process is the generation of fumes and gasses. Do you weld on galvanized metals? Zinc is the coating used on galvanized metals, and when you heat the metal, it produces vaporized metal droplets which are called fumes. This is the smoky haze which consists of fine particles of metals or silicates. When you breathe these fumes, they may work deeply into your lungs.

The typical effect of breathing zinc fumes is metal fume fever. One or two hours or more after welding-without proper personal protection-you may experience severe thirst, pain in the legs, shivering, congestion in the head, dryness and tickling of the throat, and a cough. In very bad cases, you may feel severe shivering, a high fever, buzzing in the ears, nausea, vomiting, and even hallucinations and convulsions. Your symptoms will usually last 24 hours.

Some of you may weld for a period of time and find some of the symptoms appeared, then went away. You may actually have built up an immunity that hides the full effects. If you take a break from welding over the weekend or over a holiday, the symptoms will often come back again the next time you weld on galvanized metal. Because of this behavior, metal fume fever is sometimes known as "Monday morning sickness."

Protect yourself, if you weld on galvanized metals, by following these precautions:
In all operations where metal fumes are present, you should work in a well ventilated area. The best way to protect yourself against metal fumes is to use local exhaust ventilation at the source of the smoke. Do not re-circulate the air in the shop.
If good local ventilation is not possible you should wear an approved respirator, which will fit underneath your welding helmet, to protect yourself from fumes. This respirator collects the fume particles and keeps them from entering your lungs. (A paper dust mask is not adequate).
If you find white dust inside your welding shield, you are not properly protecting yourself from the fumes.
After you have finished welding, wash your hands and face thoroughly with soap and water.
Do not eat, drink, or smoke in areas contaminated by welding fumes.
If you think you are experiencing symptoms of metal fume fever, report it to your supervisor. Physicians familiar with this illness say that the best treatment is to drink plenty of water and go to bed and rest.Finally, did you know that you can "contaminate" your family by bringing home zinc particles on your clothing? Protect both yourself and your family-weld safely.

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=Jim Davenport]If your welding pipe, you can't grind off the inside. There's still Zinc that's in the pores of the metal.

I do agree with you however Stu only has to be able to weld 1 pipe nipple on one end & yes he could use a de-burring bit & clean the galvanize off the inside & if he wears a activated charcoal mask the minor amount of galvanize that is in the metal pores shouldn't be a problem. Or he could use black pipe.

[Jim Davenport]

Black iron pipe would be the way to go.

[Don Orr]

Jim, thank you verry much for that excellent information. I am interested in learning some welding and will take this info to heart (and lungs). I'm also a big fan of safety protection.

Stu, looks like black pipe may be a better solution to your situation. Worth a try anyway. Good luck and show us what you end up with.

Show us your chips!!!:D

[Allan Johanson]

I like the black pipe idea, having welded galvanized stuff before and really paid for it. :eek:

If you are concerned about pipe failure when using the new tool rest, you should examine the welded area for signs of cracking/bending before each time you use it.

I've welded up four tool rests for a friend using solid stainless steel. Worked great. I'll be doing the same for my lathe and bought some 1-1/4" solid SS and had a friend turn it down to 30mm to fit my lathe. There has got to be a guy with a metal lathe by you somewhere in case you're still reluctant to use the pipe.

Good luck!

Allan

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey Jim, thanks for the concern, and never stop airing your concerns, really, I very much appreciate it.

This is what I did.

I put on my coveralls, and I wore my respirator, (with the charcoal filter), I put rubber surgical gloves on under my welding gloves, I wear safety glasses, and my face shield, I put a fan behind me, blowing over me, towards the exhaust fan, which I had set on high, (and that thing sucks!)

I ground the outside of the pipe, I then put the pipe in my vice and spent 10 minutes with a round file, getting as much of the inside cleaned up as possible. I then cut a slot for my tool rest, and welded it in place. Once I was done welding I removed my gloves and my coveralls, and put my shop apron on, and made some curlies.

The rest worked very well.

Next time, black pipe for sure.

Sorry no pics.....

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK Pics!

A Tool Rest

I only have the 12" tool rest that I got with the lathe, this is rather long for a lot of stuff,
I wanted to make a shorter one. I can not find any 22mm stock that fits in the
hole on the banjo, but I did find some gas pipe that is 22 mm.
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/toolrest_bottom.jpg
Here is the backside, the welds are double thick, as I welded over the first welds, to add to the strength.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/toolrest_top.jpg
The other side.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/toolrest_on_lathe.jpg
Here the tool rest is on the lathe.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/toolrest_on_lathe_side.jpg
A view from the side.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/centered.jpg
I have a problem, with the rest centered, on this short 6 inch piece, I cannot
get the banjo close enough to the wood,
the end of the banjo hits the tail or head stock.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/left_side1.jpg
I have to move it to the left, or.....

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/right_side1.jpg
...to the right, this is a pain....
I think I'll make another one, but I'll have the rest offset on the post.

[Tim Beauregard]

Great job!

You have the same sort of deal I did when I got my lathe. You have a bolt that probably has to be tightened with an open end wrench...to set the tool rest at a particular height. I bought a phenolic star-shaped knob and replaced that. SO much nicer!

Not a technical genius here, but an idea person. Can you weld some flat bar to a piece of 22mm pipe, then make a "head" that can slide along that flat bar and can be clamped in place? The head would be your tool rest and I envision it something like a monorail car sitting on top and having a cutout that extends along the sides and underneath the flat bar. That would allow you to move the head forward (as wood diameter gets smaller) without having to mess with the banjo.

Regards,
Tim B.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Tim.

There was no bolt in there when I got the lathe, so I just put one in.

I'm thinking of a few things to get it done, and you idea is one of them. I'm also thinking of making a shorther banjo.

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Boy did I just ever have a "Doh...!!" moment...........:o

It seems that the tool rest thing, the whole deal on the tube bed, do you call it a "Banjo?" was on the wrong way around.

I moved it (sorry no pics) so the handle is now on the back side of the lathe, and boom there you go, works like a charm with the 6" tool rest I made up.....

Yep just call me Stu-pid..... :o

If you look here, at this new Aisan copy of the old C-man lathe, you can see that I had it on backwards..........

http://www.geocities.jp/tn_maru/Img_3137.jpg
The way it "SHOULD" be.....

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/tool_rest/toolrest_on_lathe_side.jpg
The way it SHOULD NOT be....

now in my defence, they have the handle that tightens the banjo to the bed on a different spot than my C-man lathe....

Anyways, I got that sussed, and I'm only posting this so anyone else with one of these lathes can learn from my bonehead move...... :o

Cheers!

[Dave Fifield]

Stu, it appears that 22mm is a fairly standard size for strut rods on Japanese cars (e.g. Nissan). You might get lucky at a scrap yard or car pimping outfit.

Dave F.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Dave, I'm a bike guy, not a cager :D

The black gas pipe seems to work.

Cheers!