Table saw dust collection

[Charlie Mastro]

This has to be my biggest pet pieve. The dust collection on all cabinet saws I've ever seen is terrible. I've built an enclosure around the blade and done what I can and it's still bad. I know there is a better way because we once had SCMI slider that had a fully enclosed cast housing with a 4" connection and it would blow up the bag we first hooked up to it (before we had a dust collection system) and almost did a good job on it's own.

The enclosure I made comes off the motor side of the blade because that is the only way it will work when I tilt the blade. I'm now thinking of a sheet metal enclosure based on the SCMI but that does look like a lot of work and I have to cut out the back of the saw cabinet to allow the enclosure to swing thru the 45 degree tilt of the blade.

And yes I have had a over the blade collection system that I built that was actually featured in a wood working mag but I forget which one. I am in the process of rebuilding it to accomadate a bigger hose (at least 3") instead of the 2" I used before.

So I am looking for your experience or articles you may have seen or any links whatsoever you may have come across. Of course personel experience is the best info....

[Tom Araya]

I'm reworking my garage for better dust removal,
dust is the biggest issue that prevents me from doing
more woodworking for a longer period of time. Whatever
you come up with, post pics :)

I usually have a 18" fan behind me blowing the crud
outside the big door, but now I'm thinking of getting
a giant 48" fan to blow the stuff outside the garage
because dust aggrevates the allergies. /brute force // lol //



...... then have the old lady hose off the driveway with the
garden hose .... {hehehe}

[Mike Cutler]

Charlie.

I'm not sure if my bad is the same as your bad for dust collection, but here are some pics of mine.

My overhead dustcollector is a copy of Gordon Sampsons. It can be found in the Badger Pond Articles on the WoodCentral website. Gordon's had a 4" to 3" reduction at the hood, and mine is a 4" to 3 1/2" reduction at the hood.
My dust collector is just a Jet DC 1100.One of the 4 inch "Y's" goes to the overhead, and the other 4 inch "Y" goes to the cabinet. I use 4" flex hose to connect everything. Definitely a minimalist approach. A cyclone, and hard piping would be much better.
Here is a series of pics.

1. Clean before use.
2. after running 3 or 4 passes of MDF through
3. after running some veneer on chip board through.
4. More after some chip board.
5. The table at the end of messing about.

I tried to pic the nastiest crap I had available. I hate cutting MDF. It sucks. Prior to this mod I used to wear a respirator to cut MDF, and had to wear a face shield to cut chip board.

I'm sure that the accumulated dust would increase with more material, but this was just a quick shot for you. Hopefully it gives you some ideas.

[Jim Becker]

My Jet saw cabinet stays pretty well clear, other than a little bit that collects in the corners which is no big deal. Even with the 4" port, the 5" drop and plenty of CFM available takes care of it. I also have an overarm guard for collection when that is appropriate. If you are having issues with material piling up in your cabinet, it's because you don't have enough airflow to move the material...multiple causes are possible for that, including a DC with insufficient real air flow, poor duct work (design/size) or not enough airflow INTO the cabinet to fill the port. (The last one can occur when one closes up all the gaps thinking that "sealing" the cabinet will help the dust collection.

[Mike Cutler]

My Jet saw cabinet stays pretty well clear, other than a little bit that collects in the corners which is no big deal. Even with the 4" port, the 5" drop and plenty of CFM available takes care of it. I also have an overarm guard for collection when that is appropriate. If you are having issues with material piling up in your cabinet, it's because you don't have enough airflow to move the material...multiple causes are possible for that, including a DC with insufficient real air flow, poor duct work (design/size) or not enough airflow INTO the cabinet to fill the port. (The last one can occur when one closes up all the gaps thinking that "sealing" the cabinet will help the dust collection.

Hmm..... I did notice that the dust that collected in the cabinet was more after I put the overhead collector on.
I thought that it was because I was splitting the flow between two ports, now I wonder if it's because I am starving it by taking a suction on the top, and decreaseing the flow through the cabinet.
I can live with it for now. If the dust stays in the cabinet, and isn't in my face anymore. I can always clean out the cabinet manually if needed.
Good point.

[Jim Becker]

Hmm..... I did notice that the dust that collected in the cabinet was more after I put the overhead collector on.
I thought that it was because I was splitting the flow between two ports, now I wonder if it's because I am starving it by taking a suction on the top, and decreaseing the flow through the cabinet.
I can live with it for now. If the dust stays in the cabinet, and isn't in my face anymore. I can always clean out the cabinet manually if needed.
Good point.

Mike...the use of collection on top isn't damaging the collection down below...the reduced airflow from the DC is is the problem when you have both ports open. You don't have unlimited real CFM! Frankly, when I use my overhead guard with collection, I only partially open the cabinet drop. I really don't care if a little material piles up inside the saw as it will get "moved along" later, sometimes with a gentle push with a stick if it gets "sticky". I could rectify this by keeping the whole drop at 6" and increasing the size of the cabinet hood port to 5", but I haven't bothered to do the work...

[Mike Goetzke]

I've only had my cabinet type saw for about 3-months now (Craftsman 22124) but I actually waxed the bottom plate in the cabinet and added a SharkGuard:

http://www.leestyron.com/sharkguard.php

I had a SG on my old TS for about 3 years and it does a great job. On non-through cuts and ones where the lumber doesen't extend beyond both sides of the SG I get a little dust but for most operations it does a good job.

Mike

[Barry O'Mahony]

The Bill Pentz site has recommended settings for different power tools. Table saws are listed at 400 CFM for the bottom port and 400 for the blade guard port. Generally, you need a 4" pipe on each of those ports to pull that amount of CFM (or a 6" pipe when the flow from the two ports are combined).

[Charlie Mastro]

Well I was really looking at getting better collection in the cabinet side of the saw but I guess I'll just put a 45 degree slope in the bottom to slide the chips down to the existing exhaust (no one mentioned this one and that's been around for years). Then I'll rebuild my overhead collector much like Mike's and run a 4" duct to it. Like I said I have a overhead for years but it was only 2" wide and the 4" would work much better. Great pictures Mike.

By the way Plexiglas glues together real well and you would have to drill and tap all those holes. Just went out to the shop and took a picture of my old one. I was trying to make it as narrow as I could so it wouldn't be in the way as much. :rolleyes:

By the you guys are great... I posted this on another forum and didn't get a single reply.

[Roy Wall]

Charlie,

Here is my blade DC....4" flex and chokes down to a 2" Felder blade guard. Using a 2hp Oneida is works very well.

[Dave Harker]

Here is my table-saw DC system. A home-made overarm with 4" hose, and also 4" to the cabinet of the saw. This all splits off the 6" pvc, using the splitter (1 6" into 2x4") that came with my DC.

The link (http://webpages.charter.net/harkerhome/WWShop/dctablesaw.html) has more pics and construction details, and here is one pic:

http://webpages.charter.net/harkerhome/images/dustcollection/dctsArmAndSaw.JPG

[Allan Johanson]

Well I was really looking at getting better collection in the cabinet side of the saw but I guess I'll just put a 45 degree slope in the bottom to slide the chips down to the existing exhaust (no one mentioned this one and that's been around for years).
Hi Charlie,

My Unisaw has a ramp like that although it isn't as steep, but the ramp guides the dust towards the wide rectangular inlet that's around 10" wide. From there I'm using a 4"x10" rectangular to 6" round HVAC end boot. (I have a large cyclone so it can handle the 6" port.) My cabinet is super clean inside.

This cabinet hookup combined with an Excalibur overhead guard and my large cyclone makes my TS amazingly clean.

Cheers,

Allan

[lou sansone]

Hi Charlie
I personally think you are on the right track with the proposed modifications to your saw. Like you said, the best professional saws like the scmi use this method to really collect the dust. The only down side it the hole in the base of the cabinet. Felder goes about this a little differently and has a dust chute that picks up the leading edge of the blade below the table top ( sort of like one would do with a band saw right below the table top). You might try rigging something up like that to start with and then see if you have to do the full blown dust flask style you were thinking about. BTW my Rockwell RT-40 ( also made in collaboration with SCM in the 80's ) uses the design you are proposing and it works very well.

lou

[J.R. Rutter]

Here's a shot of the SCMI style DC hookup / blade shroud.

Some people increase the size of the TS base port to 5 or even 6" to get more air flow. A hole in the front side of the throat plate insert helps a bit. I've gone to 3" for my overarm guard, and it helps but is still not getting edge rip dust . . .

[Charlie Mastro]

Thanks for all the input and I think I'll end up putting the slope in the bottom of the cabinet and do away with my enclosure. I only have 2 - 4" ducts coming off my DC so with no blast gates it's the same amount of air to the saw as if I was running the other hose to the overhead. Granted the over head would take care of dust off the blade but the air to the lower cabinet would be like it is now.

Does anyone know if I can up the size on the DC to 6". Maybe Jet can tell me? I'll add the hole to the front of the throat plate and make a bigger overhead duct system. I'll post pictures when I get done.