Table saw upgrade ?

[Tom Araya]

Table saw upgrade time?

I have an ancient Ohio Forge 10" contractor saw
[20 years old] that I kinda rebuilt about 5 years ago.

Vega fence, I removed the legs and built a rectangular
rolling cabinet that has a dust collection chamber
and a custom router table to the right of the saw
and some storage ability. It works fine but I desire
more even thought the garage is small.

Dust issues
I plugged the saw areas with foam to prevent dust from escaping, placed a cardboard fixture near the motor to
trap more dust, but I'm still annoyed at the top side
dust being thrown when doing work. I have no DC
connected to this.

Questions
1. I've never worked with a cabinet saw, do you think
I'd notice a dust collection improvement over my
current saw, namely the top side dust? {assuming I get a good DC :) } ..

I'm always looking for new ways to add more stuff
to a small garage while keep the space wide open.
Compact, folding tools, tools on wheels, are great.
I'm rebuilding the garage to have a better shop and
I keep thinking about doing a table saw upgrade.

2. I noticed Grizzly {and who else?} has a sliding table
attachment for one of their saws. Verdict ?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4227

3. Grizzly has this unit, Outfeed roller system.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1317

Fold down when not in use is interesting to keep
garage clutter down, is this worthy ?

4. Rumor says that Grizzly has cheap stuff and quality
stuff, in regards to tables saws, what would be considered their cheap saws vs. quality saws?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I never met a griz owner who bitched about their equipment. I don't see myself buying a griz but, it's hard to knock the quality of work I see comming from griz owner's shops.

That said I have been in the market for a new table saw. I want a slider but not a panel saw. I first looked for the sliding table add ons. I was unwilling to spend a dime on anything I saw. They range from $300 to $800 and I don't like any Ive seen.

The griz unit looks like it'd be the most reliable for squarness and rigidity of all the add ons I have seen. This because it's heavy got lots of case and big runners and - of course- has a very solid attachment to the saw cabinet and table.

One failing that makes this a poor slider is the cross cut size of 26" with a 48" total travel. If I can't get a 4'sheet of ply on the thing I'm not interested.

The one in the picture you linked to appears to require a left tilt saw and it requires a heavy steel or cast iron cabinet.

You have a contractor saw. ERGO: no cabinet - but you don't have the motor in the way either so the left tilt may not be an issue. You'll need something really solid to hang the lower roller tubef or it may require constant adjustment. On the up side the lower roller is less a part of how it holds its squarness than the upper one. It may do OK on a wood frame. You won't know until you have it mounted.

The inability to get convicned that there is an add on slider on the market that I'd be happy with, leaves me looking at Laguna, Mini Max, and Felder.
Felder is looking pretty good.

On the other hand I know someone who has that roller outfeed and he loves it. I wondered if it wouldn't cause wood to skew off the fence cause of imperfect riollers. He says no, as the table tilts away (down) slightly.

[Hoa Dinh]

"2. I noticed Grizzly {and who else?} has a sliding table attachment for one of their saws. Verdict ? http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4227"

As a previous owner of the Delta sliding table (of which Grizzly unit is a clone), I don't recommend it. Granted that it is more convenient than a cross cut sled, but it is a pain to adjust and to use. The Dewalt and the new JessEm are much better. When I replaced the TS, I bought a DW instead. Here (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hoa_dinh@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=81be&.dnm=860a.jpg&.src=ph) is my setup.

This (http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/SurveyOfSlidingTables/surveyofslidingtables.html) is an informative article on sliding tables.

Amazon currently has several promo deals: (1) $75 off $300+ order, (2) Free mobile base with X5 Unisaw, and (3) Free Jet Dust Collector. This (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000A25Y8/ref=ord_cart_shr/102-7607375-5435315?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=228013) is an example. But you don't get free shipping so the whole set up (Unisaw + Mobile base + Dust Collector) is about $2050. A similar order from Grizzly probably costs more.

[Joe Chritz]

I would assume that the top dust collection would not be any different assuming you saw is cutting true now.

On my contractor saw (that I modified the base for DC) I get only dust from the kerf. If I get a nice clean cut with no pinch as in plywood I get almost zero dust off the top.

I have some time on a UNISAW with a Delta slider and it seemed like a nice unit. As was mentioned without a 48 crosscut it is not really much better then a decent crosscut sled.

I am thinking strongly about a guided saw system for crosscuts.

Joe

[Mike Cutler]

Tom.

I'm not sure that I am understanding your initial post.

Do you currently have any dust collection going to the saw? or do you just not have an overhaed dust collector?

In any case. I have a cabinet(or hybrid saw, General 20-550), and a Jet Contractor saw. I have a Jet DC 1100, dust collector, hooked up to the saws. The amount of dust on the top is about equal, with no overhead dust collection system.
I have for overhead dust collection a homemade collector hood that booms down from the ceiling. With MDF there is virtually no dust at all on the table surface.
If you use a zero clearance insert on your saw, like I do. Dust collection through the saw, from the table surface is virtually nonexistent.

As to Grizzly quality. I have no experience there. The posts that I've seen over the years have been very favorable. The biggest complaint seems to have to do with shipping, and shipping damages. I can't, however, remember reading that Grizzly did not rectify the issues when they were brought to their attention.

Sliding Tables. I just installed a JessEm Mast-R-Slide on my table saw. For it's size it is very impressive. It won't rip a 4'x8' sheet of plywood, but then I very seldom ever do that. Look into it. It's a quality piece of machinery.

I've never found a good outfeed roller system. If you find one, that doesn't cost a fortune,or weigh a ton, let me know.

Good luck in your searching.

[Gary Swart]

I've had a G1023 for over 9 years. I considered a sliding table, but felt the use would not off set the expense. I did put an HTC roller outfeed table on and I love it. The Grizzly one looks like a clone of the HTC. The points I feel are important include having it when you want it, and being able to fold it down when you don't need it and for storage. It never needs adjusting and it's always on the same plane as the saw even if the saw is not perfectly level. It raises with one hand, and lowers with one hand plus a nudge with a foot on the support. There is no question a cabinet saw is superior in every way to a contractor saw except moving it without a mobile base. Personally, I don't see any advantage of the left tilt, but that's a matter of personal choice and opinion. I'm a true believer in Grizzly quality/price, but like most brands, the OEM blade guard sucks. I put a Bies guard on mine, and it is much better. I also put a Bies fence on (before Griz had there clone) and a Bies splitter. Also found the WWII blade to be awesome as well as the Dado King. Nine years of using the saw and zero problems. I occasionally check the alignment, but it's never varied at all.

[Tom Araya]

What is the story on 'left tilt' vs. 'right tilt' table saws?
Which applications require one or the other?

As far as my dust collection, I have no overhead unit, I did make a custom unit but found it to be in the way
and I removed it. I guess I need to make a more clever
design no matter what saw I use.

The 48" plywood crosscutting is always an issue, I have two people doing this chore. Most of the time I have to
rough cut because it's hard to get a nice edge with
heavy wood, then do the second pass as the material is
lighter.

Without spending a fortune, are there clever DIY fences
or mods that can be made to the average $1k table saw
that might give you 'bearing like' crosscutting smoothness as those $4k and up sliding tables saws?

The only ghetto solution that comes to mind is to build
some input and output tables with rollers and when not
in use, place the tables aside in storage.

I do alot of 4x8, 3/4" plywood and MDF cutting for
speaker projects. I'd like to start using 1" thick MDF
sheets but they seem to weigh a ton, I can't imagine
handling this without a better method.

I guess the point is. If I replace my current setup, ideally I'd want more return on the investment vs.
just getting a new machine just because it's 'new'.

I haven't figured it out yet. I don't follow the woodworking scene as I'm into other hobbies,
the speaker hobby does require me to build using wood,
but I don't follow the market to know what all the kool
tools are or any kool methods.

Has anyone made an ordinary sled for an ordinary table
saw where the sled has bearing that ride in the table
surface?

[Jim Becker]

Relative to "top side" collection...unless you provide for it, you will have material coming off the top of the blade on any through cut, no matter what kind of table saw you have, with or without dust collection "under the hood"...especially with zero clearance inserts that help keep the bottom of the cut clean. Nature of the beast.

Right-tilt/left-tilt is a personal preference. For a non-slider, my opinion is that left-tilt is preferable and safer for certain types of beveled cuts. For a sliding saw, right tilt is preferable for those same cuts because of how you use the machine. And my opinion is also that you will never duplicate the smoothness of a true slider with any kind of add-on to an American-style saw, shop-built or commercial. It's not just the action of the slider, but also the support structure and how the slider, itself, is right next to the blade, rather than offset nearly a foot on most add-ons. This is not a good vs bad thing...it's just that they are different and our expectations need to be such. The add-ons can be a very valuable tool addition if they meet your needs and they are getting "better" in many respects. The new JessEm is a nice example of smooth. But if you want "big", you'll need to go to Excalibur or similar or a true slider.