Can a barrel be turned?

[Tim Beauregard]

Hey guys,

I'm finishing up a barrel that is part of a gift for a friend. SOME of it was made on the lathe...the lid and the knob for the lid. But it occurred to me that I could have done a lot more on the lathe. Here are some pics:

The staves start out as trapezoids which can be nailed, screwed, or glued together to form a circle. This is just 5 staves, but 13 like this would complete the circle.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5832/747/320/Barrels07.jpg

Then, a pair of jam chucks can be used to mount and turn the outside profile of the barrel. I didn't do that but I have seen a guy do it to make a kaleidoscope out of 3 pieces of wood which were glued to form a triangle.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5832/747/320/Barrels16.jpg

I did turn the knob, and the inside of the lid (mounted to a faceplate), so it would fit down into the barrel.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5832/747/320/Barrels17.jpg

Finally, I hand sewed a burlap bag as a liner...here is the nearly complete project.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5832/747/320/Barrels18.jpg

I am betting that YOU guys could do a better job and TURN the outside profile of the barrel.
Thanks for looking,
Tim B.

[Pat Salter]

the DIYnet channel has a woodturning show with Dave Hout and one of the episodes shows him making a birdhouse where the body was made similar to your barrell. I think the problem would be that the barrel should have a rustic look. Turning it would make it smooth and not realistic IMHO. :D

[John Miliunas]

Yikes!!! :eek: This will probably get me thrown off the Turners Forum or, at least, demoted but, I agree with Pat! :D Turning the ends and knob are cool but, for sake of "authenticity", I'd leave it the way you already did it.:) (Let the flaming begin! :eek: ) :D :cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Yikes!!! :eek: This will probably get me thrown off the Turners Forum or, at least, demoted but, I agree with Pat! :D Turning the ends and knob are cool but, for sake of "authenticity", I'd leave it the way you already did it.:) (Let the flaming begin! :eek: ) :D :cool:

Off with his head! Salter's, too! Fie upon ye both!:D

[Frank Fusco]

Doing it the old fashioned way might actually be easier. Mostly it is done with hand tools, inshave, draw knife and mallet. Won't say they can't be turned, haven't seen any laws against that. :) But, it begs the question? Why?

[Tim Beauregard]

Because.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to sound sarcastic here.
Why do anything? Because of the enjoyment you get from it, I suppose. Why turn the wooden barrels of a pen when a Bic costs a quarter? Why turn a chess set? Because I will have something (or give something) that is uniquely me. Not one of millions pressed out of a machine in Taiwan.

Sure, I could buy a barrel, probably on Ebay. But then my friend would not have a unique container made from the sycamore tree that used to be a focal point in her front yard.

You guys certainly have more experience than me and make BEAUTIFUL things, and know what sells. I on the other hand take HOURS to make the simplest of things. That little knob, for instance. I'll bet you could have turned it out in about 5 minutes or less. I worked at it for well over a half hour. That lid...couple of minutes for you...>45 for me. But I look back and say "I MADE THAT !!" and feel good about it. I hope you and everyone else gets the same enjoyment.

If I ever do another barrel, I will do it on the lathe, then maybe distress it a little.

Regards,
Tim B.

[Bruce Smith]

That looks kind of neat, I have seen one piece barrels that were turned but this looks more authentic. I believe the ones I saw were supposed to be pencil holders. I would be interested to know just what angle you used to cut the staves because when you divide 360 by 13 you don't get an even number.

[Gary Max]

Tim he wasn't poking fun at your barrel---it is a thing about where should it be posted at---so when you turned the knob it made it alright---sometimes we have a different kinda of funny over here.
I can not think of ever seeing handmade barrels at a show but I bet I could sell them.
Now for some more info on the size of the staves and what angle are the cut

[John Hart]

I think it looks great as it is! But I can understand why you'd like to do it on the lathe too...Lookin' forward to seeing it. Pretty cool barrel!:)


Oh yeah...Off with John M's head!
(for that horse comment the other day);)

[John Miliunas]

Oh yeah...Off with John M's head!
(for that horse comment the other day);)

Whew...Just got that lead-lined outhouse done in the nick of time!!!:D :cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Hey Tim - I admire your reason for turning. Stick with it. The provenance of the material used adds huge value to the item, and when the recipient has a relationship to that provenance the value just gets more huger/bigger/better.

I see no reason why it couldn't be turned. Inside and out. All about jigging, gluing, and process. Smooth? Nah. Get it where you want it with the tools and clean it up with some 36 grit paper.

[Michael Stafford]

Tim, you can definitely turn your barrel on the lathe. It is not unlike a staved segmented bowl or urn construction that I do.

In order to do it you need to glue your staves into a circle and tightly clamp them using large hose clamps, band clamps or whatever you have.

Once that is dry carefully glue it to a wooden disc such as plywood, or maybe some scrap pine. The disc should have a faceplate attached and the barrel form should be centered as close as possible to the actual center used for locating the faceplate.

Mount the whole assembly on the lathe. At low speed carefully face off the bottom of the barrel assembly and make it flat. Using a bowl gouge and a square scraper cut a rabbet on the inside of the barrel to accept what will become your bottom. Once you have a nice square rabbet dismount the faceplate and barrel assembly.

Mount a piece of 8/4 stock between centers and round it up. Cut a rabbet on one edge that will fit the jaws of your 4 jaw chuck in compression mode. Dismount the piece of 8/4 stock and mount it in the 4 jaw chuck. Turn a rabbet on the opposite face to fit in the rabbet you previously created in the barrel assembly. This should be a snug fit. It is imperative the rabbet on this piece which will become the bottom is square and fits tightly against the shoulder of the rabbet in the barrel as that is where the glue will hold the two together.

Glue the bottom and the barrel together. Remove the faceplate from the top end of the barrel where the scrap wood is attached and place your live center in that hole when you remount the barrel assembly with the bottom now glued in and held with the chuck. Carefully part off the scrap glued to the top.

Now you are ready to shape the inside and outside of your barrel assembly to your heart's content. Use a low speed and sharp bowl gouges and scrapers to shape the interior and exterior to suit. Since your grain is running from top to bottom gouges would do a better job and require less sanding.

Once this shaping is done it is just a matter of parting off the bottom and sanding it to suit.

[Ernie Nyvall]

Whew...Just got that lead-lined outhouse done in the nick of time!!!:D :cool:

We used to put an outhouse on the top of our yearly bonfire...BURN THE OUTHOUSE!!!!!:mad: :mad: :p :D :eek: :mad: :p

Tim, you barrel looks great and yea, I think you could turn it. and in addition to what Andy wrote, a wire brush in a high speed drill and with the grain makes wood look old. Works even better if you burn the surface first... so turn, burn, and brush... same thing we will do to John M.:D

Ernie

[Harry Pye]

I'm going to be the guy who disagrees! I don't think this is a good turning project. Of course it could be turned but it won't look as realistic as the picture of the finished item.

And the reason...the picture shows flats on each of the staves. If you turn it, you will turn away the flats. I suppose you could turn it out of a solid chunk of wood, hollow the inside and then scribe lines for the staves, but somehow that seems like cheating.

Just one old man's thoughts.

[Ernie Nyvall]

[QUOTE=Harry Pye...And the reason...the picture shows flats on each of the staves. If you turn it, you will turn away the flats.
[/QUOTE]

You're right about that Harry... does that mean we can't bulldoze John M's outhouse?:(

Ernie

[Michael Stafford]

Harry, not to be contrary but all the barrels, kegs, puncheons, casks, etc. I have seen were turned or at least shaped so the hoop ring could pull the staves tightly together. If you tried to beat a hoop ring down the flats of unshaped staves it would be almost impossible to get the hoop ring to hold it together.

I also remember an episode of "This Old House" when Norm was in Napa Valley and they went to this guy's shop who made all of the oak aging barrels. In that episode, interestingly enough, they turned the barrels round. That was a sight to see as those barrels must have been close to 3 feet in diameter and 4 or more feet tall!!!!

[Tim Beauregard]

Just want to clarify that in NO WAY was I intending to sound upset or defensive.

I was waxing poetically, since I had a lot of time on my hands. And I was intending to PRAISE all of you because from what I have seen of your work, you are all artisans. I feel like I struggle for everything, but I do get enjoyment out of that struggle.

As for a few details:

The tablesaw blade was tipped to 13.8 degrees. (360/13)/2 = 13.8
I think that barrels SHOULD have "roundosity" to them. The fact that these have flats on them as pointed out by Mr. Pye just means that I haven't spent enough time sanding yet.One day I would like to get to some of that segmented work. The look really appeals to me. I will have to post a picture of a bowl that was given to me several years ago.

Thanks for all of the responses!!
Regards,
Tim B.

[John Miliunas]

We used to put an outhouse on the top of our yearly bonfire...BURN THE OUTHOUSE!!!!!:mad: :mad: :p :D :eek: :mad: :p

Tim, you barrel looks great and yea, I think you could turn it. and in addition to what Andy wrote, a wire brush in a high speed drill and with the grain makes wood look old. Works even better if you burn the surface first... so turn, burn, and brush... same thing we will do to John M.:D

Ernie

Thanks for the "heads up", Ernie!!! I'd have never though of adding a sprinkler system!!!:D :cool:

[Harry Pye]

Don't bulldoze it. That is what dynamite was invented for. John could be the first person to reach the moon without a space ship!

[John Miliunas]

Don't bulldoze it. That is what dynamite was invented for. John could be the first person to reach the moon without a space ship!

:eek: :eek: :eek: http://www.jldr.com/ohflout.html :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Ernie Nyvall]

:eek: :eek: :eek: http://www.jldr.com/ohflout.html :eek: :eek: :eek:


Hmm, so John tours outhouses. Looking for something old and dry to turn?:eek: :D

Ernie

[John Miliunas]

Hmm, so John tours outhouses. Looking for something old and dry to turn?:eek: :D

Ernie

Hey, you get turning stock from anywhere you can, right??? :D However, in the case of outhouses, "dry" would definitely be the operative word!!!:D :cool:

[Jeff Singleton]

When I was a full time patternmaker we did the stave thing all the time. Most of the time they were tapered staves meaning you had a different diameter at each end. Most of the blank were in the 16" - 48" range and had at least a 2 ft. face, any thing less then that would be done in segments. We always glued the staves around a 2" thick blank, top and bottom and nailed the staves on. Why don't you stave up another blank and turn that one and then see which one you like the best. I vote for the unturned one, it just looks down right cool.

Jeff Singleton:)

[Tim Beauregard]

Yes, next barrel I will do that. I think it will be easier to make the barrel cylinder when all the staves are still trapezoids...glue and clamp.

With the first barrel I had a heck of a time connecting them together due to the outside curves. Of course AFTER the fact I figured out a better way.