Tormek or not?

[Doug Whitson]

Hi All, I looked over the old posts for opinions on the tormek system. I'm a 12 year vetran of woodworking and have progressed through the various stages of shapening. Please note I'm not saying I'm any good at it, just have been butchering my chisels for a while. I went to the scary sharp method about 3 years ago. I don't have any of the fancy jigs or anything and maybe I should before I go off the deep end with the tormek. But time is the most limiting factor in my woodworking. It seems to me that I spend an inordinate ammount of time trying to put a decent edge on my tools. Is the tormek a time saver? I know they are expensive - but what cost time? I need to sharpen mostly chisels, some turning tools and plane irons. I can't seem to find any updated information and thouht I would turn to you all.

I'm all ears (eyes)

Later,

Doug in AZ.

[Allen Bookout]

Is the tormek a time saver?

Doug in AZ.
For sure---no question about it. And very accurate also. I am horrible at sharpning things but using the Tormek my chisels and knives are perfect.

After you get over the sticker shock you will never regret buying it.

Allen

[John Strait]

For sure---no question about it. And very accurate also. I am horrible at sharpning things but using the Tormek my chisels and knives are perfect.

After you get over the sticker shock you will never regret buying it.

Allen

Allen,

Besides the basic setup, what additional jigs do you use with your Tormek. I am also on the fence on deciding to buy one of them and would like to know what jigs you must have and which one are not necessary.

Thanks,
John

[Jim Davenport]

Get the Tormek!!!
I was on the fence over the cost. I just bit the bullet, and got one. I thought my tools were sharp, until I sharpened them with my new Tormek.:D

[Allen Bookout]

John, (What jigs must you have and which are not necessary?)

That is a tough call because it depends on what you need to sharpen. The basic set comes with what you need to sharpen your chisels and irons. It is mandatory to have the stone grader, of course, and I am pretty sure that it comes with the set sold at Sharp Tools but I do not know about other places. The diamond truing tool is essential. In fact that is the first thing you should do is make sure that your stone is true. Other than that it just depends.

I personally got the planer/jointer knife jig and I think that most would need it. I also got the scissors jig so that my wife would go along with it and both knife jigs.
The long knife jig is not necessary unless you have knives with long flexable blades like fillet knives. The short one would do otherwise.

I think that the secret to the system is having the proper jigs so that you do not have to depend on skill or luck. At least that is the important thing to me.

I am not a turner so I do not know first hand about that aspect, but from watching the video I think that those jigs are a must also if you do that sort of thing. I am sure that some of those guys will chime in as time goes on.

I thought that the Sharp Tools video (additional to the Tormek video) was well worthwhile but others with more expertise may disagree.

These are my thoughts an am anxious to see what other owners have to say.

Allen

[Jim Young]

After much mulling around about the Tormek I finally bought one a couple of years ago. In the past I had used water stones and then went to the SS method. Seemed like it took for ever to get sharp chisels and plane blades. Once I had the Tormek I found sharpenning a breeze, I actually could get a better edge than with the other two methods. Now that the money is long forgotten I have to say that I love my Tormek. I actually use my planes now a lot more since the blades are nice and sharp.

[Mark Singer]

I have both the Tormek and the Veritas Mk II . Of the 2 I would go with the MkII for chisels and plane irons...It is faster and seems to yeild a better edge...

[Mike Henderson]

I've used the Tormek but found that I could sharpen faster on a set of water stones with the Veritas MKII jig. The Tormek was very good for getting the first bevel on old, beat up chisels, but that was about it - and you still had to flatten the backs on a regular stone.

A Tormek would be ideal in a shop where you have the space to leave it set up all the time, and where a number of people will be using it. But it's pretty expensive for a single, part time, user (my opinion).

Mike

[Jeff Farris]

... - and you still had to flatten the backs on a regular stone.Mike


The sides of the TORMEK are ideal for lapping the back of chisels and plane irons. It is much, much faster than stones or lapping plates.

[Jeff Horton]

I went to the scary sharp method about 3 years ago. I don't have any of the fancy jigs or anything and maybe I should before I go off the deep end with the tormek.
Well, I will take the other side and say buy a 10-15 dollar honing guide first. I just sharpened an old mortise chisel last night. Took 10 minutes to grind a new bevel on the chisel belt sander (have to be careful not to burn it) and maybe 5 minutes on the sandpaper and I was shaving with it. Now that I have it sharp I can touch it up in a couple of minutes. Once I get the grinder set up I can reshape the bevel in half that time.

I am sure the Tormek is fine but I can buy a HECK of a lot of sandpaper for that cost.

[Allen Bookout]

Well---this is very interesting. Three for and three against.

WHAT NOW??????

Being from Florida I suggest a recount.

[Jeff Geltz]

Not sure I can tilt the pendulum one way or the other. I started out with a set of Norton Waterstones but bought the Tormek in order to sharpen my planer and jointer blades as well as my lathe chisels.

I would say for hand plane blades and chisels the water stones with a real good honing guide like the MKII are ideal. Large blades and curved tools is where the Tormek shines.

[Tyler Howell]

After seeing what the LV MK11 can do it has my vote and a space in my shop.:cool:

[Steve Clardy]

I have the MKII machine.

[Jesse Cloud]

I have had the Tormek for five years now and I still love it. I also have waterstones. I generally use the Tormek for the heavy lifting, e.g., grinding out a nick or reshaping a bevel. I think I do the fine honing better on the stones. Typically, I will put aside an hour or so every two months and sharpen the kitchen knives and any chisels, plane irons that need it. the tormek does take a while to set up and clean up after you are done, but it gives good results quickly. A big part of the whole thing is that I really enjoy using it - and I haven''t 'burned' an iron in years :rolleyes:

Its a good candidate for one of those Woodcraft 10% off days.

Jess

[tod evans]

doug, sharpening is one of those things where you can buy all of the jigs and gizmos by every manufacturer on the planet and untill you learn to use what you have the results won`t be acceptable. although i don`t own any of the current market offerings i`m willing to bet that they all work and given enough time with them you`ll be able to get a servicable edge.....just as you could with stones, sandpaper or buffing compound once you invest the time. it all boils down to how do you want to learn to sharpen? .02 tod

[Keith Barkhau]

The Tormek is definitely a nice machine--my father has one and whenever I visit I usually bring along some iron to "play". However, for me I can get at least as good an edge with sandpaper and norton water stones. I lap the backs of my chisels and plane iron on the sand paper, hollow grind the bevel on the grinder, and then do the final honing on the waterstones using the Veritas MK II jig. No question the lapping takes much longer with the sandpaper, but its not like you have to do it very often. And with the sandpaper I get absolute mirrors on the backs of my chisels.

If you've done a good job with the flattening, all of the subsequent honings on the waterstones (including the flattening of the stones, which I do with sandpaper on granite) just take a matter of a minute or so. Frankly not a huge time difference with the Tormek. If you're using sandpaper instead of the waterstones, the honing really shouldn't be taking much longer--if you've hollow ground your bevels you're really only taking a tiny amount of material off at the leading and trailing edge of the bevel--on my waterstones this takes me 25 strokes on my 1000, 15 strokes on you 4000 and 12 strokes on the 8000. I would think it would be similar with sandpaper.

If you're not getting a good edge I'm guessing you're not using a good guide. I've worked with guys who can hand hold their chisels when they're honing and get great results, but I've found that with the MK II I get very consistent results--its especially good with plane blades. I definitely had problems using the old roller guides with getting the blades locked in square, and at least for me the older Veritas guide really didn't work well with chisels (they tended to slip).

Sorry to get long winded here, but to sum up my comments you certainly could be happy with the Tormek, but I would think about giving either sandpaper or waterstones another shot but take a closer look at your technique and tools.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I have the old Veritas jig that is shown below. Besides killing my fingers while sharpening on waterstones, I get a slightly curved cutting edge which annoys me. It's not too bad with narrow chisels that are less that 3/8" wide, but with plane irons, it gets pretty bad. I try not to rock the jig while I'm sharpening. What am I doing wrong? Is the MK II more stable? Or is it my technique? My stones are flat.

cheers, Jeff

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/veritasjig317x238.jpg

[Bill White]

I have the Makita sharpener. SWEET. Quiet, relatively inexpensive, looks like it will run forever.

[Don Morris]

Doug,

I bought the Tormek a couple years ago after going through hours of sharpening by waterstones, SS system and also took a course at the local Woodcraft in Sharpening your Handplanes (basicaly a review of the SS system). I was spending so much time I really hated it. I saw the Tormek demonstration at a local woodworking show and then brought my wife back. She said I could get it as long as I got the knife sharpening jig and sharpened her knives too. Now I don't hate the idea of sharpening my chisels, or her knives. I'ts quick and very effective. You might be able to get them sharper in short order with some other system, but to me you'd be splitting hairs...literally.

Don M

[Byron Trantham]

I've had my Tormek for several months now and love it. I bought those jigs appropriate for what I expected to sharpen; scissors, planes, knives, chisels and planer/jointer blades. I bought everything from Amazon when the stuff went on sale. I have a total investment of about $550. I sharpen friends scissors and knives. I have earned about $250. The system is fast and accurate. I use my shop scissors to cut open plastic bags of stuff I buy for the shop and they would always fold the plastic rather than cut it. Now they cut like a hot knife through butter. My chisels have a nice mirror finish and cut like crazy. I haven't used the planer/jointer jig yet. My planes are a joy to use now. Its expensive but I highly recommend it.

[Jay Knoll]

I bought one over the weekend, and am enjoying using it! There is a bit of a learning curve -- and I had a senior moment and forgot to change the setting when I went to the honing wheel, didn't get the results I expected but that was because I didn't have the angle setup properly for the smaller wheel. These directions are clearly spelled out in Jeff's video which I had watched, but just forgot when I went to hone.

I'm pleased with the results, more pleased with avoiding the repetitive movement necessary to flatten a chisel back my hands didn't ache when I was done!

Jay

[Larry Norton]

Doug, when I went to the tool show in Baltimore in Jan., I hadn't even thought of buying a Tormek. Since I couldn't find the JessEm miter gauge or Porter Cable dovetail jig, I couldn't come home without buying something big! So I went over to the Tormek booth just to look. Well, you know the rest.

Being 58, it takes longer to get a new tool learned. I managed to make the top of the wheel out of square the first few times I played with it. I then ordered the wheel flattening tool and it worked great. I still have a way to go to get it right, but each time I use it, it gets better. I even bought a cheap set of chisels to practice on so I wouldn't end up with my good chisels reduced to an inch long.

I've looked at the CD that was included several times. Keep in mind that Jeff has demonstrated it many times and it looks really easy. I'm sure it will be a long time before I get as good as he is. From all I've seen and heard, he gives great service.

I'm considering buying the planer-jointer knife sharpening jig at the Chantilly show in less than 2 weeks.

If you do decide to get it, please tell us how you're doing with it so so of us who are still learning might benefit from your experiences.

[Jay Knoll]

Byron

Just curious, what are you charging for sharpening?

Jay

[Byron Trantham]

Doug, when I went to the tool show in Baltimore in Jan., I hadn't even thought of buying a Tormek. Since I couldn't find the JessEm miter gauge or Porter Cable dovetail jig, I couldn't come home without buying something big! So I went over to the Tormek booth just to look. Well, you know the rest.

Being 58, it takes longer to get a new tool learned. I managed to make the top of the wheel out of square the first few times I played with it. I then ordered the wheel flattening tool and it worked great. I still have a way to go to get it right, but each time I use it, it gets better. I even bought a cheap set of chisels to practice on so I wouldn't end up with my good chisels reduced to an inch long.

I've looked at the CD that was included several times. Keep in mind that Jeff has demonstrated it many times and it looks really easy. I'm sure it will be a long time before I get as good as he is. From all I've seen and heard, he gives great service.

I'm considering buying the planer-jointer knife sharpening jig at the Chantilly show in less than 2 weeks.

If you do decide to get it, please tell us how you're doing with it so so of us who are still learning might benefit from your experiences.

Larry try this site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tormekusers/
You have to sign up and wait for accptance but there is a lot of information from other Tormek users.

[Allen Bookout]

Some here have recommended the Veritas MK.11 so I took another look just out of curosity. At $310 plus the ongoing cost of new disc ($31 for ten) it is not real cheap either. But the big thing, for me at least, I do not see any way to sharpen planer and jointer blades.

Am I missing something here?

Allen

[Doug Ketellapper]

I bought the Tormek several years ago. The main reason was for sharpening turning tools and planer/jointer knives. I purchased the whole kit of jigs with it. It is a very well thought out tool with good instructions on using it, and I find it easy to get repeatable results with it. For chisels and handplane blades I use it to change the bevel angle or take out any damage, then I sharpen on my waterstones using the orginal Veritas jig. If all you're sharpening is chisels and handplane blades, I'd go with the new Veritas honing guide before getting the Tormek. Once you have your bevel angle set, keeping your irons and chisels sharp shouldn't take much time at all as long as you don't let them get too dull.

[Charlie Plesums]

The Tormek has done a good job for me for several years, but I am still offended by the price of the jigs. If time is more important than cost, this is a good system.

I just sold my $130 jointer/planer jig because my new machine uses Tersa cutters

If you are going to use turning gouges, that is a special jig for about $60. Works great (I can touch up a gouge in less than a minute), but it hurt to pay as much for the sharpening jig as the chisel.

I need go get another ($30) jig for my turning scrapers

I learned that I needed the diamond truing tool, about $70, to get the wheel back to round. Should be part of the basic kit, but isn't.

Chisels, planes, and Knives can be done with the two jigs that come with the basic package. I do scissors "freehand"

[Tyler Howell]

Allen where there's a will there's a way.Building the jigs, now more to come.;)



Some here have recommended the Veritas MK.11 so I took another look just out of curosity. At $310 plus the ongoing cost of new disc ($31 for ten) it is not real cheap either. But the big thing, for me at least, I do not see any way to sharpen planer and jointer blades.

Am I missing something here?

Allen

[Doug Whitson]

My hobby is not sharpening, it's woodworking. I just want a "method" that allows me to get acceptable results with a minimum of time and effort. I need to sharpen chisels mostly, some plane irons and some turning tools. I get no satisfaction from mirror surfaces or secondary bevels 1/32" and perfect. Not my thing. I know sharpening is a necessary evil and I don't mind spending the bucks that will allow me to "git er done" and move on to working the wood. I could probably spend the money from a tormek on pieces of granit, MKII's and a strop and come out way ahead. The problem is space and time. If I run into a dull chisel, I'd like to go to the sharpening station, clamp up the offender, turn the machine on and be done in a couple of minutes. Gathering all the dull tools/sissors/knives that need sharpening is just not something I would do. Am I alone here? I'm not trying to be flip, please don't take it that way, I'm just being honest. I would just send them out to be done but seems like an awfull waste of money.

Sorry to ramble, I must be more frustrated than I thought. LOL I brought the subject of Tormek up because I thought it would solve all of my sharpening problems. If there is another method/system, I'm all ears.

Thanks to all who have replyed.

[Ed Kowaski]

doug, sharpening is one of those things where you can buy all of the jigs and gizmos by every manufacturer on the planet and untill you learn to use what you have the results won`t be acceptable. although i don`t own any of the current market offerings i`m willing to bet that they all work and given enough time with them you`ll be able to get a servicable edge.....just as you could with stones, sandpaper or buffing compound once you invest the time. it all boils down to how do you want to learn to sharpen? .02 tod

I agree. Perhaps the lure of the high dollar systems are that many, maybe most of us, don't really want to learn how to sharpen. We just want sharp tools.

My sharpening setup is the world's cheapest grinder with a good wheel, a Lee Valley tool rest and tool holder, the new Lee Valley honing guide and water stones. I get an excellent edge in short order with no fighting.

I'm sure the Tormek is good but I doubt I'll ever own one. I simply can't imagine the day when the price difference between what I have now and a Tormek wouldn't return more spent elsewhere in the shop. That's me, I enjoy the bits of metal working I get to do and I include sharpening in that.

[Jeff Horton]

First off, I don't care how you spend your money. ;) But you said yourself you have never bought a jig to sharpen with. So I don't think you gave the scarely sharp method a good test. That why I advise getting a jig ($25 tops! I use a $7 one) and learning this before you try yet another method.

As for speed, I can sharpen a chisel in a couple of minutes after the initial sharpening. All my chisels were old ones I had to rehab. That takes some time and it is not something I enjoy either. But it is a one time job. Once I get the bevel ground and the blade sharp, maintaining the edge is quick. As long as I don't don't mess up the bevel or use it till it totally dull it's just a couple mintues honing time and it is razor sharp again.

To save time I made a simple gage to mark where the chisels fit in the jig. I have a granite plate, well its actually a sink cutout from a counter top, I glued sandpaper on it. It stays on the bench ready to use any time. If you have to store yours because of space, then use a couple floor tiles from the Borg will work. With the paper glued down your ready to go in just seconds.

Just my opinion, but sounds like it would do exactly what you want. You just haven't given it a fair shake.