Bag Collector - which one?

[Todd Burch]

I've recently purchased a Bridgewood 15" Wide Belt Sander (BWS-15B). I like it a lot, and having had it a little over a month, I've only broken it once!! (knock on wood...) (user error)

Anyway, my Onieda 1.5 cyclone dust collector cartridge is killing me. After every significant (20 minutes+) sanding session, the cartidge is packed with dust. I need a bag collector fo rthis sander.

I've looked at the Grizzly G1029, and with its sale price, an upgrade to a .3 (yes, their catalog says "point 3") micron bag and shipping would be about $315.

The Penn State DC250-SE-1M with a 1 micron bag & shipping is $380.

The sander needs 1200-1500CFM, per Wilke Machinery. I would like the best filtration possible. The bag collector will only be hooked to the wide belt sander.

Suggestions?

[Ken Garlock]

Todd, although I haven't seen your setup, it seems to me that your problem is in the filter on the cyclone. Why not get with Onieda people and see about changing to a plenum and bag for the output from the cyclone. If I read you correctly you have problems with the frequent dumping/cleaning of the cartridge. The dust bag/plenum solution may assist you there.

Second, DON'T believe any of the quoted CFM ratings from a vendor unless they can show you documented proof of the claim. Example, compare the 2hp and 3hp unit in the grizzly catalog. The difference is the size of the bag and the motor. The impeller is the same on both units. Upping the hp. does not give you more CFM unless you also increase the impeller size.

I looked for the 0.3 micron bag on the Grizzly site, but didn't see it either on the website or in the catalog :confused:

Slightly OT, there is a good article on dust pollution in this weeks "Science News" that is worth reading. Check it out at:Dust Pollution (http://www.sciencenews.org/20030802/bob8.asp)

My first step would be to contact Onieda. :)

[Terry Hatfield]

Todd,

How about a bigger filter for the cyclone???? Is your's an internal filter or external??? If it's the internal, I bet cleaning the filter as often as needed with the belt sander is a major pain. I know they offer the external filter but I don't know the price. I'm thinking that you could upgrade the filter for about the same as you are talking about spending on a bag collector. Maybe less.

Does the 1.5 hp. Oneida keep up with the sander when the filter is clean???? It doesn't have any where near the recommended cfm you stated for the sander.

Terry

[Todd Burch]

The filter is an internal one. And, Terry, you are correct - it doesn't keep up very good even when clean. As a matter of fact, it doesn't keep up very good with the tablesaw or floor sweep either. It didn't keep up with the 8" jointer until I modified the dust/chip exit chute of the jointer to have no uphill climb to it.

When I bought the system (1999), I was in a 2 car garage. I never installed it. Last fall, I installed it in my 1200 square foot shop. My runs for the tablesaw, floor sweep and jointer are over 30'. When I hook up my parks 12" planer with homemade sheetmetal hood, it works OK, but that run is about 20' (about 8' of 5" flex hose, then 6" pipe all the way back to the cyclone's 7" input wye. So, I know it is undersized - just don't have the cashola to upgrade to a 3HP cyclone right now. If you think seeing pics of my setup will help in any suggestions, I would be happy to post some.

[Todd Burch]

Ken, here's the grizzly link for their .3 bag.

Grizzly Online Catalog (http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/pages/117.cfm?)

[Ken Garlock]

Ken, here's the grizzly link for their .3 bag.

Grizzly Online Catalog (http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/pages/117.cfm?)

Thanks Todd. Those look like very good prices. :)

[Jim Becker]

Anyway, my Onieda 1.5 cyclone dust collector cartridge is killing me. After every significant (20 minutes+) sanding session, the cartidge is packed with dust. I need a bag collector fo rthis sander.

It's far less expensive to adapt a pair of Torit filters to your cyclone like I did...and your performance will increase noticably even during "normal" operation. Here's a pic of mine, although it's quite old and pre-cyclone enclosure.

[Bill Pentz]

...Suggestions?

Todd,

Make sure you are running all 6" duct right to all of your larger machines. Anything else will not move the volumes needed to get the fine stuff at the source before the air movement from motors, fans, belts, blades, bits, etc. send that fine stuff all over. You need about 800 CFM at each of your larger machines to get that. That takes a 2 hp motor turning about a 12" impeller. Add 1/2 hp more and 1" in impeller diameter to overcome the resistance of the cyclone.

Your 1.5 hp unit is just not enough for a shop as large as yours with your tools. You can do the dual filter upgrade (I like using a pair of the Wynn Environmental 300 square foot cartridge units), but that is still not going to do the job because there is not enough impeller or horsepower.

The least expensive solution for you would be to add a neutral vane to your cyclone, pick up a Sheldon's Engineering 14" material movement impeller, add a good real 3 hp motor (I like the Leeson 5 hp compressor motor that is really a 3 hp unit), then add those filters. You will find that makes a world of difference. Although I think the Leeson would replace your existing motor and with minimal rework you could use your existing blower with the Sheldon's impeller, you could also just make a new blower. I now have a new budget blower plan that I am just finishing up testing that you could use to replace your existing blower. Email me if you want a copy before I get it out on the budget blower web page.

The WoodSucker II or Oneida-Air 3 hp would be your other options to do the job well.

Hope this helps.

bill

[Todd Burch]

You guys are SO helpful! Man, I love this place!

I was clueless about the external filter options. As I'm in the shop today, I'm going to evaluate my current setup. I think a dust collection system might be one of those things that evolves as the shop evolves, since it touches so many machines.

I'll post more info, with pics and what my dust collection desires are later this evening or this weekend. Collectively (pun intended) I think we can solve my issue!!

Thanks again, and stay tuned for more data...

[scott spencer]

Todd, I'm not qualified to tell you which system is best for your needs, but can tell you that I'm using the G1029 with the 0.3 mic bags and a trash can separator for most of my DC needs. The upgraded bags were a huge improvement, and overall I'm pleased with the performance.

[Bart Leetch]

Tod I agree with what Bill Pentz has said , but I am still in the same ball park as you right now.

I have the G1029 & have made a metal housing 20" diameter that houses 2 used Diesel truck filters that I got for free & using a good mask & the air compressor I blew out most of the road dust.

The housing sets on the top of the bag rim in place of the top bag & allows the exhaust air from the DC to flow up around the outside of the filters & though the sides of the filters & out the hole in the middle of the top. This filter system & housing is 48" tall.

I can feel air movement at the finger hole in my zero clearance throat plate on my contractors saw. I do have the the back of the saw enclosed. I do still need to go to 6" duct, but the system works quite a bit better than it did & there is so much to do outside while the weather is good.