Need help with chair - corner blocks

[Mike Henderson]

For the past year or more, my wife has been asking me to build a set of four dining room chairs for a table that I built earlier. I had been able to delay starting that project by working on other things, but finally ran out of excuses. She did the basic design, but I had to figure out how to convert her design into wood. These are the first regular chairs that I've ever built. I did a couple of rockers before, but no standard chairs.

What I did is to build one chair to see how it would look and sit. I haven't done any of the "finishing" touches to that one chair yet, and I haven't glued it together yet. Now that she gave her approval to the chair, I'll take it apart and use the pieces as template to build the other three chairs.

While I'm not ready to start the final assembly, I see one thing that I don't know how to do.

How do you attach the corner blocks? I could glue them, but it's sort of an end grain (at least a scarf) connection and the glue may not hold. I could put screws through the corner blocks at the ends, or I could put one or more screws through the center of the corner block into the leg.

I plan to put a hole vertically through the corner blocks to use for attaching the seat.

What's your advice? How do you attach corner blocks?

Mike

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Michael, I glue and screw them into place. I don't think glue is strong enough in this instance.

[Jim DeLaney]

Glue and screws. Actually, the screws are providing most of the strength do the the cross-grain glue situation you already mentioned.

[Lee DeRaud]

How do you attach the corner blocks? I could glue them, but it's sort of an end grain (at least a scarf) connection and the glue may not hold. I could put screws through the corner blocks at the ends, or I could put one or more screws through the center of the corner block into the leg.From the seat down, those look remarkably like my dining room chairs. The blocks there are fitted to the curved rails, with a small gap between the block and the leg...two screws into each rail (four total per block). Presumably glue too, but these are 40+ years old, factory built, so what kind is anybody's guess.

[Mike Henderson]

Okay, glue and screws it is. Thanks everyone.

Since I posted my question, I found my copy of "Chairmaking and Design" by Jeff Miller and he recommends the same approach. There really aren't many books out there about making standard chairs. There's a few on Windsor chairs but that's quite a bit different than regular dining room chairs.

If you know of any books on making standard chairs, I'd appreciate if you would pass along the title.

Thanks,
Mike

[James Owen]

...If you know of any books on making standard chairs, I'd appreciate if you would pass along the title.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

Try Ron Clarkson's Making Classic Chairs. ~150 pages on nearly every aspect of building a Chippendale style side chair. Most of it should be readily adaptable to your specific needs.
BTW, nice design on your chairs!

James

[Jamie Buxton]

Screws are the usual way to do it, but that has always left me a little uncomfortable. It makes the glue block look like an afterthought, or maybe one of those things you do when you forgot to mill a joint before you glued up the rest of the piece. On the last design I made, I milled slots on the inside faces of the rails, before I assembled them into the chair The slots run with the grain. Call the slots mortises. I machined mating fingers on the ends of the glue blocks. Call them tenons. Glue holds the corner blocks to the rails. It is clean, and structurally sound.

[Mike Henderson]

James, Thanks for the pointer to the book - I ordered it. Also, thanks for the kind words on the design - I'll pass your words to my wife since it is really her design.

Jamie, I understand what you mean by the way you attached your corner blocks. I'll probably just use screws on my chairs since it'll be difficult to mill the grooves on the curved side rails. And for my first chairs, I think I'll take the simpler approach. But I'll remember your comments and may use your idea on a later chair.

Mike

[James Owen]

James, Thanks for the pointer to the book - I ordered it. Also, thanks for the kind words on the design - I'll pass your words to my wife since it is really her design..... Mike

Mike,

When you get one (or more) of your chairs done, I hope you'll post some pics of your work.

James

[Mark Singer]

Michael,
Screw and glue the corner braces. The seat usually sits on top so all the aprons and legs should plane to create a good plarform. For comfort on an upolstered seat...cut out the center leaving about a 4" wide doughnut and the upolsterer should strap it...

[Richard Gillespie]

P. Michael Henderson;

The old chairs I've repaired had corner brackets screwed and glued with hyde glue. The glue holds very well so long as the butt joint between the block face and the skirt is good. If that joint is poorly done, the joint fails quickly, even with screws.

I like the design you and your wife came up for your new chairs. However, a chair like yours is subject to premature failure of the mortise and tenon joint between the back leg and side skirt. They will fail even with glue blocks. If the chair receives any rough use, such as children, anyone that likes to rock back on the back legs, or even carpeted floors, this will accelerate the problem. Chairs receive a tremendous torque at this joint every time a person sits down on the chair.

I worked for 4 years as a second career in a furniture/cabinet making shop. In doing so, I built between 150 - 200 chairs similar to yours. Let me make a recommendation for a design change that you may not like. To extend the life of the chair it needs side stretchers installed between the legs below the skirts. The skirts also need a tenon wide enough that it can accept a double pin. Chairs built with side stretchers usually have a front one for looks also.

[Mike Henderson]

Richard, When I started this project I talked with an experienced chair builder and he also recommended the stretchers. However, my wife did not like the design with them so I left them off. I'll just have to repair those joints when they fail. I plan to put arms on two of the chairs so that will provide some additional support for those two, but the other two will suffer.

If the non-arm chairs fail too quickly, I'll try to add a stretcher from somewhere down on the back leg, slanting upward to the top of the front leg (below the rail). That way, I can keep the turned front legs. If that fails, I'll just re-make the chairs with a slightly different design and include the stretchers.

As I'm sure you know, it's difficult to argue with the "customer".

I appreciate your advice and suggestions - thank you.

Mike