Collecting Vintage Planes

[Michael Pfau]

I would like to start looking for vintage planes to collect. My question is how collectable are Sargent planes? Anybody out there collect planes? Are there any good books that lay out what is collectable and what aren't? Any outside input would be appreciated. Thanks

[Jim DeLaney]

Most of mine (80+) are Stanleys, but I do have a few Sargents, Millers Falls, Ohios, some Keen Kutters, one Fulton, one Sandusky, and one Winchester.

The Stanleys are the most in demand, and also what are most commonly found.

The Sargents are really good planes - some are, IMO, actually better than their Stanley counterparts. There isn't as much collector interest as with Stanley, but that's actually a good thing if you're starting out. It means that the Sargents are usually obtained at better prices than Stanleys.

BEWARE!!! You're standing at the top of a very slippery slope! I started out acquiring "just a few users" and now I have over eighty planes in all sizes, shapes and configurations. You too may find yourself sliding down that slope! BEWARE!!!:D

Here are 61 of mine, plus a few scrapers and spokeshaves:

[Michael Pfau]

Jim, thank you for the information, I have bought several Lie-Neilsen's and use them all the time, love them, but now I want to venture out! if you know what I mean...sounds like you have quite the collection! again, thank you for the info on Sargent.

[Howard Norman]

Jim, I knew that you had a "few" planes but I never realized that your collection was that large. I have started to buy a few but in my case it is a "few". I think I have 15 or 16 at the moment. I am a small time collector compared to you. How do you have such a large collection stored/displayed?

Howard

[Tyler Howell]

Michael,
When I started my rust hunt I scowerd the country side looking for users. I truthfully told the venders I was a student of the art and they fell all over themselves trying to help me out.
Truly an adventure talking to some of these characters.
Should be a lot of good stuff out in your area.
Good Hunting;)

[Roger Bell]

Two reference books you might consider owning are:

(1) Sargent Planes, Identification and Value Guide. by David Heckel
(2) The Sargent Tool Catalog Collection.

Mr. Heckel is a former President of the MWTCA and published this book in 1997. Naturally the "values" are a bit outdated, but it is a good start in terms of comparing the value of one Sargent with another. If you are a member of the MWTCA (and if you are intent upon becoming a collector, you should consider it, or membership in a similar organization) you might even be able to correspond with Mr Heckel or other well known collector-authorities in the Sargent field. I believe Mr. Heckel published the book privately and that it is still in print and available from him.

The Tool Catalog Collection is also a must . It is a reprint of portions of the 1894, 1910 and 1922 Sargent catalogs. It includes a company history and good general overview. Having at least several original or repro catalogs is essential if you are to become familiar with the offerings of any particular manufacturer. This publication is available from Astragal Press.

I recommend acquiring both books as a start. I myself am not a collector, altho I have a number of friends who are. In my view, a "collector" is a person who has a very focused, disciplined approach to tool acquisition, (not to be confused with the "accumulator" or the "user") as well as having (or is seriously developing) a very extensive knowledge of whatever genre of tool(s) he collects.

After you get started, you will be available to help us with our Sargent identification questions, won't you?

[tod evans]

michael, although i don`t collect sargents i do collect stanleys and jim is right! use caution before jumping in, it really is less demanding of both your time and wallet to buy new......but if you`re nuts like a lot of us jump on in:) .02 tod

[Michael Pfau]

Jim, thank you for your insight! I will go find look for the books, and do some research.

[Derek Cohen]

Michael

Here are two links to Sargent planes:

http://www.thckk.org/sargent.html

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sgt7.JPG&target=tlx_new&title=Sargent%20VBM%20adjustable%20iron%20planes

They may be helpful.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Doug Ketellapper]

You can get Dave Heckel's book directly from him. Here's the ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/SARGENT-PLANES-ID-VALUE-GUIDE-Plane-Book-by-Heckel_W0QQitemZ6260055152QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

[Steve Clardy]

Collecting or amasing. I think I'm a amaser.
Like Jim, have a load of them.
Mostly stanleys that need restored.
Last count was over 70. I think I'm edging up on Jims count:eek: , running neck and neck.
All this only took a year to accomplish, thanks to Ebay:eek: :o ;)

I like restoring, tuning them up, then passing them on to a good home.:D

[Jim DeLaney]

Collecting or amasing. I think I'm a amaser.
Like Jim, have a load of them.
Mostly stanleys that need restored.
Last count was over 70. I think I'm edging up on Jims count:eek: , running neck and neck.
All this only took a year to accomplish, thanks to Ebay:eek: :o ;)

I like restoring, tuning them up, then passing them on to a good home.:D


Steve,
Amasser. That's a better descriptive term than collector for me, too. If you're that close to catching up, then I'd better get spending! Since moving here to Ohio, I haven't seen much in the way of decent planes for sale. I've resorted to Ebay for the last several - other than the L-V's and an L-N, of course...

[Steve Clardy]

Here you on not finding much where you live. Same here.
Have to venture out 40-50 miles, or to Ebay.
When I do find some irrestible goodies, they think it's worth the price of a new Cadillac.

[Mike Henderson]

This is a bit off topic. I only buy old planes to use, but I've never bought an old plane that had a flat back on the iron. Didn't our ancestors ever flatten the backs of plane irons? On some of them, it takes hours to get the back flat and polished.

No value here, just wanted to rant.

Mike

[Jim DeLaney]

This is a bit off topic. I only buy old planes to use, but I've never bought an old plane that had a flat back on the iron. Didn't our ancestors ever flatten the backs of plane irons? On some of them, it takes hours to get the back flat and polished.

No value here, just wanted to rant.

Mike

I don't think the old fellows did much to any of their planes - just used the heck out of them, right out of the box... Of all my planes - other than new LN or LV, I don't think I've ever gotten one with a flat sole, or a flat back on the iron.

Considering the quality and beauty of much older furniture, etc., it makes one wonder how beneficial all this fussiness is.

BTW, before I do anything to a newly acquired plane, I make some test cuts with it. If it cuts okay, I don't even measure the sole (or iron) for flatness. I just sharpen the iron, and use it.

[Steve Ash]

I like restoring, tuning them up, then passing them on to a good home.:D

I got a good home for them....need references? J/K:D

[Dave Anderson NH]

Uh, Sgt Major. You are in the middle of the territory of the Mid-West Tool Collectors Association (MWTCA). You ought to check out their schedule of events and get in some tailgating time. Most events have a tailgate session associated with them. It's a wonderful place to be able to physically inspect the tools before buying them, and the prices are usually quite reasonable too.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I don't think the old fellows did much to any of their planes - just used the heck out of them, right out of the box... Of all my planes - other than new LN or LV, I don't think I've ever gotten one with a flat sole, or a flat back on the iron.

Considering the quality and beauty of much older furniture, etc., it makes one wonder how beneficial all this fussiness is.

BTW, before I do anything to a newly acquired plane, I make some test cuts with it. If it cuts okay, I don't even measure the sole (or iron) for flatness. I just sharpen the iron, and use it.

I like the way you think JIm. I have a postwar Stanley Bailey 4 and have never checked the sole for flatness, the only plane I did that on was my LV Veritas low angle block plane, more out of curiosity than anything else.

When I read about all the stuff written about flattening I wonder when these guys get any time to build anything.

[Julio Navarro]

This may be off topic also, but what do you look for in a collectable plane?

Reason I asked is becouse I just bought two today at a flea market, both stanleys , one is a "Stanley Handyman" I bought it to use it, figure I would learn and practice with an old one.

I noticed the guy who owns the booth at the flea market has a ton of them, some behind glass.

[Mike Henderson]

You have to narrow down to ask what a "collectable" plane is. People collect for different reasons and collect different things. In the Stanley planes, some may collect Sweetheart planes, while other may collect low knob planes. Others may collect only Type 11 planes with corrugated soles.

Collectors help and hurt in the market. Collectors add to the demand for old planes which increases their prices. This causes people to seek out old planes and bring them to market, which makes these planes available to those who want to purchase them for actual use.

Your Handyman plane is not a very good plane, nor is the Stanley Defiance plane. If you're just getting started with planes, you can purchase a very good Stanley Bailey #4 plane for under $50 which will give you excellent service and performance, and will keep its value should you decide to sell it.

And to close, let me remind all of us that many of these planes are already 100 years old and will last another several hundred years. You do not "own" a plane of this type - you are simply the custodian of it for the time it is in your possession.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Error in this posting - deleted.

[Julio Navarro]

I had sort of figured that, with a name like "Handyman" I didnt think it was top of the line. But my interests have been peeked, I am going back tomorrow and see what other planes this guy has. Hes an old old timer and has a very odd assortment of tools. I am going to ask him if I can take a couple of pics of his shop and maybe some of his planes.

Any suggestions as to what to look for? I saw a couple of Bailey planes and some with the corrugated bottom, it seemed rather odd to me at the time.

[James Mittlefehldt]

You might want to check for chisels or saws as well Julio, you never know what may turn up.