OT Digital Cameras

[Robert Mickley]

Ok I'm a man on a mission. I've decided that once and for all I'm going to own a decent to good Digital Camera. Any of you guys ever used or own the Nikon D50. I had one in my hands at the local camera shop the other day, has a pretty nice feel to it. I'm just looking to see if anyone has first hand experiance with it

[Chuck Wintle]

there are some websites that do a lot of testing on digital cameras. One comes to mind that has many tests on line.

[Dan Bundy]

Check out dpreview.com -- they have very thorough reviews (the review for my Canon Digital Rebel was more thorough and helpful than the manual that came with the camera). Another site is Steve's digicams. Don't know the addy but Google should help. Good luck. DB

[Tim Morton]

I have lots of experience with the D70, and I think you will be very happy with the d50. I wuld get the extended warantee on this one...especially if you use any external powered flash units. its VERY easy to blow a circuit board on any digital camera. DAMHIKT:mad:

[Larry Browning]

What about the D50 makes you think it is the camera for you? I have recently gone through finding a new digital camera and decided on the Panasonic DMC-FZ30. It is not a true SLR but looks like one. It pretty much has all the features of a SLR but is not quite as pricey. I think if you are not a professional photographer that needs to changes lenses all the time the Panasonic may be a better option. It was for me.
However, whatever camera you choose, and you are ordering it online, be sure to get the USA model. Some places offer the same camera at a much lower price, but with a VERY limited warrenty, weak battery, etc.. These are called "gray market" products and should be avoided like the plague.

[Dave Richards]

Just a note on gray market cameras. Be careful if you are mail ordering especially from a New York based dealer. It can be difficult to identify that they are selling you a gray market camera.

Gray market cameras are cameras that were intended for sale in some other country and have been imported into the US by someone other than the US division of the manufacturer. For example Nikon USA imports cameras from Nikon Japan. Nikon USA covers the warranty, not Nikon Japan. If the camera wasn't imported into the US by Nikon USA, Nikon USA will not do warranty service. All the manufacturers are like this.

Additionally a gray market camera might come with an instruction manual printed only in Arabic or Chinese. Unless you can read that, you'll have to purchase a new manual or just poke at the buttons until you figure out what they do.

Asking if a camera comes with a US warranty isn't enough. There are independent warranty companies out there. Many extended warranties that are sold by retailers are covered by one of these independent warranty companies. The camera manufacturers sometimes do offer extended warranties but they are frequently included in a package with the camera.

As appealing as the prices can be from some of the mail order houses, I'm not a big fan of mail ordering cameras. Here's an example of why.

One day when I was still selling cameras I dealt with a gentleman who came in with a high end Canon AF SLR. HI had spent a great deal of time with him in the past talking about this model and he told me he was going to buy it in a week or so. The next time I saw him was when he came in with the camera.

He said he thought one of the buttons didn't work. I looked at it and discovered he was right. The camera was defective. He asked me to exchange it since he'd only bought it within the last week. I asked for his receipt so I could make the exchange. I assumed he had bought it from one of our stores. It turned out to be a mail order deal and I couldn't exchange it for him. If he'd bought it from me, he'd have walked out the door with a replacement in less than ten minutes. Instead, he was going to have to send it back to the seller. I spoke with him later and he said they wouldn't exchange the camera but rather had it repaired and sent back to him.

Again, had he bought the camera in my store, I would have been able to simply swap his defective unit for a new one. Actually it is unlikely that he would have left the store with a defective one in the first place. I would have put the batteries in and checked out the camera before ringing up the sale.

The defect rate on cameras is high enough that I think it is better to buy one from a brick and mortar store; one that has a 30 day retun/exchange policy so that you have time to put the camera through its paces and make sure it is right.

Also when you buy a camera, keep everything that came with it. Don't cut out a UPC code for a rebate. Don't fill out or send in a registration card. Don't read the manual while you're eating barbequed ribs. Fold up the plastic bag the camera comes in and keep the box looking nice. Keep the camera clean and new looking, too. If you need to return the camera for any reason, you'll have an easier time of it if the camera and packaging are in like new condition.

Sorry this got so long.

[Tom A Walker]

I'm going to go with Larry and ask; why a DSLR? I just recently bought the DMC-FZ30 myself after a lot of research. I thought about the DSLRs, including the D50 since I already have a couple Nikon mount lenses, but in the end decided that the major difference between a low end DSLR like the D50 and a high end ultra zoom like the FZ30 was the ability to change lenses. I know myself that I never change lenses. I end up buying one lens that covers a lot of range.

The Panasonic takes wonderful pictures for everyday stuff. If you're looking to be a real photo bug then go for the D50. Otherwise, give a good look to the Panasonic.

[Jim Becker]

I own the D70 which came before the D50...the new D50 really offers a lot of capablity at a slightly lower price point. Easy to use. Same excellent lenses as the D70/D100/etc.

I will candidly say that there is one MAJOR difference between the digital SLRs and the higher end pro-sumer fixed lense models and that is how quickly you can take pictures. There is zero delay with the Nikon SLRs. You push the button, and the picture is captured immediately just as it would be in a film camera. The shutter/CCD delay on my travel camera and all the other digital cameras I've used drives me crazy sometimes!!

[Larry Browning]

I own the D70 which came before the D50...the new D50 really offers a lot of capablity at a slightly lower price point. Easy to use. Same excellent lenses as the D70/D100/etc.

I will candidly say that there is one MAJOR difference between the digital SLRs and the higher end pro-sumer fixed lense models and that is how quickly you can take pictures. There is zero delay with the Nikon SLRs. You push the button, and the picture is captured immediately just as it would be in a film camera. The shutter/CCD delay on my travel camera and all the other digital cameras I've used drives me crazy sometimes!!
Jim,
Recycle time was my number one spec I was looking at when I was doing my research. The Panasonic was only slightly slower than the SLR's I think 1.3 seconds. That's compared to somewhere around 5-7 seconds for the Canon S2 IS. It also has a burst mode where it will take 2 or 3 pictures a second as long as you hold down the shutter button. Another thing I like is that the boot time is less that 1 second.

[Robert Mickley]

Jim hit the hail on the head, I hate waiting on cameras to proccess information. I want to hit the button and BAM!! have picture.

Dave
I'm most likely going to buy from acamera shop here in town. Family owned but big, been in business since 1954. I was in the local store the other day and even though I told them I wasn't buying at the moment they went out of there way to answer my questions.

They have the
D50 body only $579.99
w/ 18-55mm Lens $699.99
with 28-80mm Lens $599.99

I understand all about gray market stuff, we have the same problem with gray market farm equipment

Tom, Larry
I may never use all the options the d50 has to offer, but if i do decide I want them I don't want to have to go shopping again anytime soon.

[Jim Becker]

Recycle time was my number one spec I was looking at when I was doing my research. The Panasonic was only slightly slower than the SLR's I think 1.3 seconds.

The D70 has essentially zero recycle time...it will take shots as fast as you can press the button or continuously if you select that option for sports, etc. It's also "instant on"...in fact I never turn it off as there is no effective drain on the battery. That said, your Panasonic sounds impressive relative to being speedy...refreshing as such a high percentage of the digi-cams are really...um...sluggish...when it comes to reacting to a press of the button. That's true with the Nikon S1 in my pocket "as we speak"...it takes wonderful 5mp photos, but I have to use it very differently from the SLR. Candid shots are a lot tougher. Then again...it has a metal case, auto lense cover and fits neatly and safely in my pocket. Can't do that with the SLR!! (without looking, umm...very funny...)

[Tom A Walker]

Delay time was a huge issue for me too. I basically found that no other point and shoot could hold a candle to the FZ-30. That being said, if you're coming from a DSLR, there's no all-in-one that's going to compare :)

Tom

[Larry Browning]

For me, I knew I didn't need to change the lens (I don't want to carry around a backpack with all those lenses) plus, there was a very significant price jump up to the DSLR. The FZ30 has pretty quick recycle times, it has a shutter burst mode for sports and grand baby action shots, and I just wasn't willing to pay the extra bucks. The D50 was just coming out and the body alone was pretty close $700 while I could get the FZ30 for around $600. It sounds like prices are coming down on the D50. I am extremely happy with my FZ30 and would probably purchase it again. I think I may want to find a small pocket camera that I can use to take snap shots in the shop. I have been thinking about trying my hand at bidding for one on ebay (which I have never done). I would like to spend less that $100.

[Rod Dilyard]

is the ability to shoot in RAW with a DSLR. I own a D70 and shoot exclusively in RAW (NEF is Nikon's file format as opposed to jpeg which is also available if you want) which gives me many more options during post processing such as correcting white balance. You'll be amazed at the level of adjustment that's available when you shoot RAW. That's not to say that you shouldn't strive to "get it right in the camera" but its nice to be able fix almost anything after the fact.

If you intend to photograph any kind of sporting event you'll want a DSLR. I've captured the dust coming off the baseball as it's struck by the bat at my son's games - crystal clear, virtually no motion blur. Nikon offers a huge range of lenses in a huge range of prices - but even their "low-end" lenses are pretty darn good. Check out bythom.com for some more reviews and information on Nikon cameras and lenses.

Don't forget that you'll need a SD memory card for the D50, too. My D70 uses the same sensor as the D50 and a 512MB (CF) card will hold almost 90 pictures when shooting RAW - a lot more when shooting JPEG. High speed cards matter only if you intend to shoot in continuos mode beyond what the buffer can hold -usually about 9-12 frames. You'll still be able to take pictures but the frame-rate will drop off as the data is written to the card.

Good luck.

[Rob Russell]

For those of you who have bought the Panasonic/Lumix FZ30, have you tried it in low light? If you have, has the camera performed well? The review on www.dpreviews.com (http://www.dpreviews.com) lists that as it's only real problem. We're going to be taking an Alaska cruise later this year and I'm looking at a new digital camera for the trip to replace my old, slow, 2MP camera. I also need something with more than a 3x optical zoom, but can't justify a full DSLR. I'd be interested in more specific examples of how you've used the FZ30 and how it's either done what you wanted or not.

Thx, Rob

[Larry Browning]

For those of you who have bought the Panasonic/Lumix FZ30, have you tried it in low light? If you have, has the camera performed well? The review on www.dpreviews.com (http://www.dpreviews.com) lists that as it's only real problem. We're going to be taking an Alaska cruise later this year and I'm looking at a new digital camera for the trip to replace my old, slow, 2MP camera. I also need something with more than a 3x optical zoom, but can't justify a full DSLR. I'd be interested in more specific examples of how you've used the FZ30 and how it's either done what you wanted or not.

Thx, Rob
Rob,
I am not the photographer in the family, I am just a point and shoot kind of guy. The FZ30 works pretty well int that mode too. My wife is the one who really uses it. I know that I have found that we can get a much better picture indoors without the flash as long as the subject is not moving. I had a Nikon coolpix 880 before the FZ30 and the FZ30 is so much better than the coolpix, with so many more features that they really can't be compared. Its like trying to compare a Tonka toy truck to a BMW. All you can say is they both have 4 wheels.
I really do like the manual zoom on the lens. I find that I can zoom in on things much faster and that I can control the amount of zoom better than with a power zoom. And that 12x optical zoom is killer. I can't imagine needing any more camera than this one. I paid about $620 for mine and I just looked at Amazon and they had it for $570. Be sure to get a 1gig SD memory card for it. You will also need to get a camera bag because it will not fit in your pocket. I got mine at Wal-Mart for about $15. Works great!
Sorry I can't answer you question about low light. But I'd have to say that unless you are a bigtime photography enthusiast who just likes fiddling with cameras, the FZ30 will serve you well.

[Charles Hans]

Rob. I have the Panasonic/Lumix FZ30 and have only used it for six months, but it works very well in low light conditions. I am very satisfied with it's overall performance, and the Leica lense is excelent. I own a Leica M3 film camera and very seldom use it anymore.

[Tom A Walker]

Rob, I have noticed that it doesn't do a stellar job in low light action situations. I can take decent pictures in low light with the flash but where skintone is involved its pretty easy to get a little bright from the flash.

For a cruise to Alaska I would think the only problems you would have is trying to shoot theater shows in the boat. Otherwise, for landscapes, it will do an amazing job. One feature that will no doubt come in handy is the ability to over-zoom by reducing the pixel count. By going down to 3mp on the CCD, you can increase the zoom to 19.1x. That's something like 430mm I think.

This is my second digital and I've had a couple of film SLRs. This is the best camera I've owned and it has already taken the best photos I've ever shot. Its a real good amateur level camera.

[Rob Russell]

Charles and Tom,

Is your "low-light" experience trying to take indoor, birthday-party candids without the flash? That's probably the low-light type of scenario I'd be dealing with and am curious if that's the sort of thing you were trying to use the FZ30 for.

Thx, Rob

[Larry Browning]

Charles and Tom,

Is your "low-light" experience trying to take indoor, birthday-party candids without the flash? That's probably the low-light type of scenario I'd be dealing with and am curious if that's the sort of thing you were trying to use the FZ30 for.

Thx, Rob
Rob,
I would think that any camera will would have a hard time doing "stop action" type shots in low-light. No matter which camera you are using, when lighting is low the shutter speed is slowed down and/or the apature(sp)(somebody help me with this word!) is opened wider. My experience has been that as long as my subject is relative still I can get a good low-light shot with the FZ30 without flash, but if there is any motion, like say at a 2 years old's birthday party, there is now way to get a good clear picture without the flash. But, again, I think that would be the case even with the most expensive DSLR as well.

[Rob Russell]

Larry,

I do realize that "stop-action" shots indoor either require flash, lots of ambient light or a lens that can really open up the aperture to let in as much light as possible. As I remember, opening up the aperture reduces the depth of field which has it's own problems. Still, when you read the comments in this review (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz30/page17.asp), you can see that the low-light noise is an apparently an issue.

I'm not worried about trying to get shots of the shows on the ships (don't think it's allowed, anyway).

I was just wondering if any of you had tried to use the camera - flash off - in an indoor setting and what your results had been.

Rob

[Larry Browning]

Rob,
I may not be much help to you, as I am not a connoisseur of fine photography, but for me I have gotten pretty good results with the few low-light pictures I have taken with mine. I will try to find you an example of some low-light pictures LOML has taken and post them for you.

[Tom A Walker]

Charles and Tom,

Is your "low-light" experience trying to take indoor, birthday-party candids without the flash? That's probably the low-light type of scenario I'd be dealing with and am curious if that's the sort of thing you were trying to use the FZ30 for.

Thx, Rob

Those are tough shots for almost any camera with a pop up flash. In a scenario like that you really need to be able to redirect flash. If I keep the camera in ISO 100, I'm usually okay unless there is movement. For example, my dad holding my son while he's feeding him while sitting at a table in a kitchen was a tough shot. The lighting was less than stellar but worse was the motion of him gently rocking. when I had him stop moving, I got some decent shots.

http://www.tomandjaime.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=741
http://www.tomandjaime.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=745
http://www.tomandjaime.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=747

Those are in a relatively dimmly lit kitchen in the evening (no sunlight). I think they worked pretty well. In fact, most of the pictures on my photo pages (the recent ones anyway, the EXIF info under the shots lists which camera took the photos) were taken inside and I've been happy with them.

I did make a little popup flash diffuser with an old Fuji film cannister (you know, the milky white 35mm cannisters) by cutting out a hole in its side big enough to slide it over my pop up flash. It helps in those baby portraits to cut down on hot spots from the flash. Non of the shots on the site currently were taken with it. I just rigged it up this weekend.

[Rob Russell]

Tom,

Were those shots taken with flash on? If looks like there's a flash reflection in your Dad's glasses and on the window behind him?

Thanks for posting the pics.

Rob

[Dave Richards]

Tom, those are some nice shots. The flash exposure seems to be pretty nice even for an on-camera flash. Seems to have a good balance with the background illumination.

Rob, notice the shadows in the second and third images.

[Rob Russell]

Tom, those are some nice shots. The flash exposure seems to be pretty nice even for an on-camera flash. Seems to have a good balance with the background illumination.

Rob, notice the shadows in the second and third images.

Yep - I see the shadows - pretty much answers the questions. There's a small bit of redeye in Aidan's eyes in the second shot, but it's not particulary noticeable.

It'd be interesting to see how the camera does indoors without a flash.

[Tom A Walker]

Yep - I see the shadows - pretty much answers the questions. There's a small bit of redeye in Aidan's eyes in the second shot, but it's not particulary noticeable.

It'd be interesting to see how the camera does indoors without a flash.

Sorry Rob. I missed that you were asking about indoors without flash. The answer there isn't so good. The issue really has to do with noise at higher ISOs. Over two hundred and noise is really noticeable. I shot at 400 by accident the other day at work with a decent light setup and they were nearly unusable for anything including on screen only.

The Achilles heel of this camera is certainly the noise at higher ISO settings. This would bother me if I were planning on taking a lot of low light shots without flash but, personally, I'm not. If you're looking for the freedom for such shots, a DSLR is for you.

My perspective was that I'd rather have the top of the line prosumer camera than the entry level DSLR for the same price. At least this way, when I feel too limited by the Lumix and decide to upgrade to a better DSLR like a D200 or something crazy, at the Lumix will still be a good camera for light duty. Whereas if I bought the D50, when I felt the need for something better, the D50 would, at best, be a backup but most probably go on eBay for peanuts.

[Christopher Stahl]

I personally use a D200, but I had a D70 before I bought it. If you're interested in a DSLR, then you should take a serious look at the D50. In many ways, it's much better than the D70. I would probably consider it the next generation of low cost DSLR from Nikon, basically a newer version of the D70. It has better metering, better AF, and it's easier to use.

It just comes down to whether you prefer using an SLR or just a point an shoot For a DSLR, the D50 is hard to beat.

chris

[Rob Russell]

It just comes down to whether you prefer using an SLR or just a point an shoot For a DSLR, the D50 is hard to beat.

chris

Chris,

I'm really looking for a good "PHD" (Push Here Dummy, as my dad used to call them). The ability to take movie clips is also important and, as far as I know, the DSLRs don't offer that ability.

Rob

[Tom A Walker]

Chris,

I'm really looking for a good "PHD" (Push Here Dummy, as my dad used to call them). The ability to take movie clips is also important and, as far as I know, the DSLRs don't offer that ability.

Rob

I can tell you that I've been extremely happy with the video ability of the FZ30. I take all my videos with that at a small size suitable for streaming video but even that is a pretty good quality. The high res stuff is really good. It also allows you to zoom while shooting which is something I haven't seen many other cameras do.

On the other hand, something like the D50 will allow for fully automaic shooting as well.

[Mack Cameron]

URL removed to comply with the TOS.

Here's a site that will tell you everything you ever want to know about digital cameras.

[Rob Russell]

Mack,

If the sites you were trying to post were either dpreview or Steve's digicams, I've found them already!:D

Rob