building cabinets

[Mike Evertsen]

I'm getting ready to build my kitchen cabinets soon. While at the woodworking I watched the guy from sommerfeld tools build them using off set tongue and groove router bits. Has anyone built cabinets using these bits

"Our woodworking, cabinetmaking, and furniture-making tools in this country were all derived from Europe. The joints that were mainly used are mortise and tenon, tongue and groove, and stile and rail – all strong joints that take time to construct. http://sommerfeldtools.com/html/images/03004.jpg The building of cabinets in the United States has evolved into the use of simple butt joints done by face nailing or pocket screwing. These joints may appear to be faster and easier to construct, but are most certainly not as accurate, nor as strong, and they are much more unsightly than the old traditional ones. "

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[Thomas Prondzinski]

Mike
I bought the CMT set when they came out,sure does make a strong cabinet. Overall I use it quite a bit.I just finished a dresser and used it to attach face frame.


Tom

[Steve Clardy]

I've seen those at the shows, and the cabinets. Strong built cabinet.
I would have to totally redesign my equipment and thinking to do them that way.
I'll probably never change to that system though. It would take longer than the way I do them presently.

[jack duren]

The building of cabinets in the United States has evolved into the use of simple butt joints done by face nailing or pocket screwing. These joints may appear to be faster and easier to construct, but are most certainly not as accurate, nor as strong, and they are much more unsightly than the old traditional ones. "

'

not really......jack

[Matt Meiser]

Jack, can you explain your comment?

I've seen a demo of that set at a local ww club meeting. It looks really easy to use and the tounge and groove joints give you an advantage in that they self-align and stay together during assembly. For a non-pro, they seem like a good way to go because they are more fool-proof and help when working alone.

[tod evans]

ya`ll lost me here? what makes this different from any of the cope-n-stick sets on the market? personally the idea of "square edge" sticking sounds like lots more sanding prior to finishing just to avoid sharp corners...02 tod

[Matt Meiser]

This is to do the joinery for the boxes. It creates tounge and groove joints for the box parts. The advantages are supposed to be foolproof alignment of the parts and ease of assembly because the boxes stay together while you are fastening the parts.

[Byron Trantham]

not really......jack

I agree Jack....Byron

[tod evans]

This is to do the joinery for the boxes. It creates tounge and groove joints for the box parts. The advantages are supposed to be foolproof alignment of the parts and ease of assembly because the boxes stay together while you are fastening the parts.

okay, i`ll bite.....somehow different than dadoing the lower shelf and rabbiting for the back panel? .02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

The strong points on this system is the face frame is all tongue and grooved onto the carcass.
System dictates the use of PB or Melimine. Which is flatter material, to acheive straight router joints. Would be a little more difficult with veener ply, as ply isn't as dependable on being straight, flat.

[Steve Ash]

System dictates the use of PB or Melimine.

Guess that rules me out.:D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

You'd have to count me out then, I never use either one for cabinetry. For me it's ply or solid wood only.

Face frames can be attached just fine with glue and biscuits or even glue & nailed from behind like you do Steve. I agree the system above is stronger, but figuring in the extra time is an issue for someone like me.

As far as the normal dado system for shelves and rabbets for back panels, I am a firm beliver that nothing is stronger than that method.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Cool pic and one liner Ashman! How's that baby runnin'?

[Steve Ash]

How's that baby runnin'?

Runs like a dream Kelly....if you didn't live so far away I'd take you for a spin. With 450 horses, Hooker Super Comp headers and 3" flowmasters it's a blast driving through rich neighborhoods setting off car alarms.....waiting a few minutes and go back through setting them off again.:D

[Frank Pellow]

You'd have to count me out then, I never use either one for cabinetry. For me it's ply or solid wood only.
...

I'm with you on this Kelly. If I never use have to use particle board or melamine again in my life, I will consider it to be an accomplishment.

[Steve Clardy]

Guess that rules me out.:D

Me too. I use all ply veener for carcasses.
If I had to use pb, melimine for cabinets to compete, I would quit the business.

[tod evans]

i thought particle board was for gluing plastic laminate to? and melimine was for disposable outfeed tables.......02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

i thought particle board was for gluing plastic laminate to? and melimine was for disposable outfeed tables.......02 tod

Me too!!;)

[Steve Ash]

and melimine was for disposable outfeed tables.......02 tod

It is...at least in my shop.

[Scott Loven]

Did anyone notice that these bits are made in China and that summerfield is no longer a CMT dealer?
Scott

[Matt Meiser]

The person I saw demo these was using them with plywood. I'm not sure if that was his usual material or not?

[tod evans]

to me this appears to be a cure where there is no problem? .02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

I have heard he split from CMT.
I'm not a cmt fan, Had some issues with Marc with their raised arched panel templates.

[Brian Jarnell]

Would love to know what is wrong with melamine for kitchen carcases.
Here in NZ it is used 100% for same.
We should be warned.

[Frank Pellow]

Would love to know what is wrong with melamine for kitchen carcases.
Here in NZ it is used 100% for same.
We should be warned.
It might be OK once in place -but I hate working with it.

[Brian Jarnell]

It might be OK once in place -but I hate working with it.
The only problem is the dust,but with the right kit that isn't a problem.

[Steve Clardy]

Would love to know what is wrong with melamine for kitchen carcases.
Here in NZ it is used 100% for same.
We should be warned.

All it is is particle board covered with plastic. Dusty, heavy, absorbs water and swells. I just don't use it.

[Brian Jarnell]

All it is is particle board covered with plastic. Dusty, heavy, absorbs water and swells. I just don't use it.
The cheap stuff is particle board,the good stuff is MDF.

[Steve Clardy]

The cheap stuff is particle board,the good stuff is MDF.

Sorry. No comments on that:rolleyes: ;) :D

[Steve Ash]

Somebody needs to school me I guess. All this time I thought Melamie (MDF) was cheap stuff.....wears through easily, swells when wet, what am I missing?

[jack duren]

Particle board is the cheapest line for cabinet carcasses. melamine is double. plywood is double that. the good stuff is UV coated.

my builders want PB core. id rather use melamine. they wont pay the extra. customer is always right. i dont like ply carcasses. plywood rots and mildews just like everything else. seen it first hand. its nasty.

maintenance is the key word. whens the last time you looked under the sink other than for a fresh roll of TP or trash bags....jack

[Brian Jarnell]

Somebody needs to school me I guess. All this time I thought Melamie (MDF) was cheap stuff.....wears through easily, swells when wet, what am I missing?

Have a look here Steve,it may be different over there.

http://www.interion.co.nz/furniture_joinery/melamine_tech.asp?content=1&nav=mel&tech=apps

[Sam Shank]

I still don't understand how these bits will help you attach a face frame to the carcass. Or how it will make it easy to make face frames. I'm just missing 'it'.

[Steve Clardy]

I still don't understand how these bits will help you attach a face frame to the carcass. Or how it will make it easy to make face frames. I'm just missing 'it'.

Sam. Its a tongue and groove system.:)

[Scott Loven]

Melamine is a very hard brittle plastic resin. A thin sheet of paper soaked with melamine resin is used as the top coat of low density particle board that the Borg sells as shelving and sheet goods that some (I) use for cabinet carcass construction. Melamine paper is also used as a top layer of phenolic resin saturated paper that is used to make kitchen counter tops.
Scott

[Bill Fields]

Melamine or similar is quite popular in Europe.

Question of taste, I guess.

That means they are way ahead of --or way behind us in definition of good taste.

We mostly prefer wood in North America.

This product is not for me either.

Bill

[Brian Jarnell]

You will note that the crowd that make the melamine also use mdf with a wood veneer,any wood you care to mention,clash(edgeband) this with solid wood and you have a very stable material for cabinets and you dont use a small forest to get a good result.

[Steve Clardy]

Here in the states, there is not enough wood waste to make PB, MDF, chipboard.
So whether you use solid wood, veener ply, or a man made product, the trees still get chopped down.
Yes. They take down whole trees and chip them up for PB, MDF. Of course, its lower grade trees.

[Steve Ash]

This product is not for me either.

Me either....except for the disposable outfeed table mentioned earlier. To each their own I guess.

[Dev Emch]

All it is is particle board covered with plastic. Dusty, heavy, absorbs water and swells. I just don't use it.

Man Steve, I might have to conclude that you hate SPIT-BOARD.:D Take your table saw dust and add a bit of binder and some horse tinkle to bind it together and you have MDF. And before the powers that be get mad and delete this entry, please go back and review your chemistry books from college. This means you Ken. I am not being flippent here. So not only does this stuff create a dust storm but the dust has some extra additives that are above and beyond anything you will find in a health food store if you catch my drift!!!!!

For X-Nay on the SPIT BOARD. I dont touch the junk. If I did, then the manufacturer can pay for my health insurance and life insurance as I prematurely croak from lung cancer or blood cancer. Compared to this stuff, wood dust is benine!!!

[Steve Clardy]

Man Steve, I might have to conclude that you hate SPIT-BOARD.:D Take your table saw dust and add a bit of binder and some horse tinkle to bind it together and you have MDF. And before the powers that be get mad and delete this entry, please go back and review your chemistry books from college. This means you Ken. I am not being flippent here. So not only does this stuff create a dust storm but the dust has some extra additives that are above and beyond anything you will find in a health food store if you catch my drift!!!!!

For X-Nay on the SPIT BOARD. I dont touch the junk. If I did, then the manufacturer can pay for my health insurance and life insurance as I prematurely croak from lung cancer or blood cancer. Compared to this stuff, wood dust is benine!!!


Dev!!!! We found something we agree on:D

But, tell me who Ken is:confused:
Steve:D