What roughing gouge do you use?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I want to go upstairs and grovel for a new roughing gouge. I found out late last week that a hardware store in Moscow, Idaho (30 miles north of here) stocks Robert Larson turning tools. Yesterday I went to Moscow to work on an x-ray machine and they were getting ready to do a patient. Could I come back in an hour and a half. Sure........I hit that hardware store a running! They have a significant number of Robert Larson turning tools.......a lot of carving tools, lathes, Shop Fox equipment, Delta, the most ww tools between here and Spokane and a better vareity than the BORG!

I was looking at the Robert Larson 3/4" roughing gouge. It looks like a large V with a widely rounded bottom. Is that the norm?

Does anybody out there use this style of roughing gouge?

What's your recommendation?

Thanks!

[Corey Hallagan]

I use a large PSI 7/8 inch roughing gouge for spindle work. I use this even on my pens... at least until I get it round, they I either switch to a 1/2 spindle gouge or a skew or straight to my skew on pens that is. My big gouge is big round u shape more or less, not ve shape.

Corey

[Michael Stafford]

Ken, I have two roughing gouges. One is a 1/2" which I use for pens and a 1" I use for spindles and boxes.

Never use one for bowls!!! A 3/4" is a good compromise size in my opinion. I have seen them up to 1 3/4" but I could barely pick the darn thing up.:o

[John Hart]

This One?
http://www.rlarson.com/Product/rlctt/pr9200550.jpg

[Dale Thompson]

Ken,
I've never used the gouge that you reference. However, in looking at a picture, I would suggest that it is a cross between a gouge and a skew. :confused: How do you sharpen it? :confused: It seems to be quite high-priced for a roughing gouge that is kind of "off-the-wall" for a "basic" operation. ;) :)

As far as I'm concerned, a relatively flat gouge (the flatter the better) or a skew is the "ideal roughing gouge". :) Both of these are VERY easy to sharpen! :)

That's MY input but, on second thought, when have I EVER been right?? ;) :)

Dale T.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken I use a 1/2" and 3/4" gouge for all of my roughing. Both ordered from PSI and very reasonable.

[Andy Hoyt]

Or this one?

33157

920-1510......10"....150mm .... 1/2" (13mm)
920-1515......10"....200mm .... 3/4" (19mm)
920-1520......14"....200mm ..1 1/4" (32mm) Pictured

[Dale Thompson]

This One?
http://www.rlarson.com/Product/rlctt/pr9200550.jpg

John,
I hope that your short message is not a result of your recent injury! :( From now on, man, WEAR that bionic shield! It is like magic! ;) :)

Anyway, I think that Ken is being tempted by this one:
http://www.mikestools.com/920-1520-roughing-out-gouge-1-1-4-hss-steel.aspx

Why am I ALWAYS wrong? :confused: :eek: :(

Dale T.

[Dale Thompson]

Or this one?

33157

920-1510......10"....150mm .... 1/2" (13mm)
920-1515......10"....200mm .... 3/4" (19mm)
920-1520......14"....200mm ..1 1/4" (32mm) Pictured

Sorry Andy, I didn't mean to duplicate your post.

Dale T.

[David Fried]

Ken,

I've only got one so I went with the 1 - 1/4" Sorby.

33159

Dave Fried

[Glenn Hodges]

One of the biggest complaints about roughest gouges is that some of them break at the shaft where they enter the handle. The # one cause of this break is caused by over agressive use of the tool. The P & N Roughing Gouge has the thickest shaft I have found. It is made of 1/2 inch stock. I have broken a roughing gouge myself but never my P & N. I use the 1.25 inch size. You must make your own handle which I like. Lee Valley carries them, and I am sure other companies do also. You might like to look at them before you buy.

[Jim Becker]

My present rouging gouge is a Crown 3/4" or 1". (I'd have to measure it to be sure) It works fine. Do remember that roughing gouges are ONLY for spindle work...never use them on bowls or other work where the grain is perpendicular to the spindle axis. The AAW is now suggesting that they be called "Spindle Roughing Gouges" to emphasize that point. There is a great article on these tools in the new issue of the AAW magazine...they are not only great for roughing, but also for a lot of finish spindle work. I use mine instead of the evil skew, for example...

[Dale Thompson]

Do remember that roughing gouges are ONLY for spindle work...never use them on bowls or other work where the grain is perpendicular to the spindle axis. ...

Jim,
What DO they recommend for roughing down a bowl blank? :confused: I would guess that it would be a scraper or a large "evil" skew with the toe down. :) Thanks.

Dale T.

[Jim Becker]

What DO they recommend for roughing down a bowl blank?

A great many turners now use a side-grind gouge, like the Ellsworth, and a pull cut starting from the bottom as you shape the outside of the piece. That's what I do and you can see the same on Mr. Grumbine's video. This is a situation where "one tool" can do virtually everything because of the versatility of the grind.

And a skew isn't appropriate for face-plate work either in most cases... ;)

[Dale Thompson]

A great many turners now use a side-grind gouge, like the Ellsworth, and a pull cut starting from the bottom as you shape the outside of the piece. That's what I do and you can see the same on Mr. Grumbine's video. This is a situation where "one tool" can do virtually everything because of the versatility of the grind.

And a skew isn't appropriate for face-plate work either in most cases... ;)

Jim,
Are you REALLY telling us rookies to use one of those highly aggressive side-grind gouges to do anything with it but LOOK at it? :confused: :) Not only that but you are telling us to cut "up hill"! Do you realize what a "catch" with that tool and that direction could do to a person with atrophied EVERYTHING like I have? :) :confused:

Anyway, Jim, thanks. :) I may give it a try if my "Raffan Radiused" skew ever gives me a "catch". ;) :) I love that baby so much that I even sent "it" a special Valentine card. :)

Dale T.

[Dave Wimmer]

A great many turners now use a side-grind gouge, like the Ellsworth, and a pull cut starting from the bottom as you shape the outside of the piece. That's what I do and you can see the same on Mr. Grumbine's video. This is a situation where "one tool" can do virtually everything because of the versatility of the grind.


Me too. I works a lot better for me than my 1 1/4 in Sorby.

[Jim Becker]

Are you REALLY telling us rookies to use one of those highly aggressive side-grind gouges to do anything with it but LOOK at it? Not only that but you are telling us to cut "up hill"! Do you realize what a "catch" with that tool and that direction could do to a person with atrophied EVERYTHING like I have?
1) The tool is only aggressive if you let it be aggressive..."what part" of the grind you are using at any given time governs the cut; heavy or light. The "side" is generally never used except for shear finishing cuts on the outside of bowls and vessels with the tool tipped at about 45 degrees down and laterally. The tip and the areas just to the left and right of the tip are what you are using most of the time with this type of tool

2) Cutting from the base to the rim "uphill" is the correct way to form the outside of the bowl or vessel from a rough blank mounted between centers or on a screw chuck. (Bottom facing the tail-stock, especially for right-handers) Again, how you hold the tool makes the difference. The side grind tools have a very steep bevel at the tip and near it so you vary the aggressiveness of the cut through careful rotation of the tool on it's own axis. Again, watch Bill's or David's video closely...or get some mentoring/instruction from either of them or someone local to you. Once you learn these techniques...you will never go back! The rule of thumb for face-plate turnings is "small to large" (base to rim) on the outside and "large to small" (rim to center) on the inside for cuts with the gouge

The beauty of the side-grind gouge is that you can instantly change its personality by how you let it address the workpiece, both from what part of the grind is being used as well as the orientation of the tool relative to the workpiece and your body. You also learn to work in rotation through a cut, which is especially effective when hollowing bowls...you can get an incredibly clean, nearly sanding-free cut on the interior with practice. In David's class, we had to do it ONE-HANDED. And could since the tool is what does the work.

[Chris Barton]

I have one like John's but, I really don't remember who makes it and I am in San Francisco right now or I would run down to my basement and look. I think that a 3/4-1" gouge is about right but, the most important thing to me is the tang size used to connect the metal to the handle. Bigger and beefier is better.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

After a little groveling............here's what I ordered........................by Sorby.

[Michael Stafford]

Ken, you can greatly reduce your roughing time by cutting the corners off your spindle stock before you mount it between centers. Even if part of the stock is to remain square you can trim the corners off close to that point and save yourself a lot of time.;)

[Curt Fuller]

At my last turning club meeting the guy that hosts our club, Clead Christensen, gave us a real eye opener of a demo. Clead is a 30+ year proffesional turner, owner of the Turning Post, where he does architectural and furniture work. We asked him to demo how he turns a captive ring. He mounted a 4x4x18 piece of alder between centers and pulled out a tool I'd never seen before. It was a homemade gouge type thing but was basically a 3/4" half round bar of M2 steel ground similar to the Ellsworth look but instead of having the grooved top it was flat. A solid half round bar sharpened on one end and a handle on the other. He rounded that 18" long piece of wood in 3 passes in about 20 seconds. With the same tool he cut 3 captive rings only using a skew for the last tiny cut to break them free. No special captive ring tools used at all and all in about 3 minutes. He said he does about 90% of all his turning with the same type tool in just a couple different sizes. And it was cut so clean and smooth that it need very little sanding. Everyone there was amazed.
What he said was that you learn to use the tools you feel comfortable with and that work for you. He said that the tool makers are the only ones that benefit from all the specialty tools on the market today.
Now I'm looking at all the tools I've acquired in the couple years I've been turning and wondering how bad I've been snookered.

[Dale Thompson]

1) The tool is only aggressive if you let it be aggressive..."what part" of the grind you are using at any given time governs the cut; heavy or light. The "side" is generally never used except for shear finishing cuts on the outside of bowls and vessels with the tool tipped at about 45 degrees down and laterally. The tip and the areas just to the left and right of the tip are what you are using most of the time with this type of tool

2) Cutting from the base to the rim "uphill" is the correct way to form the outside of the bowl or vessel from a rough blank mounted between centers or on a screw chuck. (Bottom facing the tail-stock, especially for right-handers) Again, how you hold the tool makes the difference. The side grind tools have a very steep bevel at the tip and near it so you vary the aggressiveness of the cut through careful rotation of the tool on it's own axis. Again, watch Bill's or David's video closely...or get some mentoring/instruction from either of them or someone local to you. Once you learn these techniques...you will never go back! The rule of thumb for face-plate turnings is "small to large" (base to rim) on the outside and "large to small" (rim to center) on the inside for cuts with the gouge

The beauty of the side-grind gouge is that you can instantly change its personality by how you let it address the workpiece, both from what part of the grind is being used as well as the orientation of the tool relative to the workpiece and your body. You also learn to work in rotation through a cut, which is especially effective when hollowing bowls...you can get an incredibly clean, nearly sanding-free cut on the interior with practice. In David's class, we had to do it ONE-HANDED. And could since the tool is what does the work.

Jim,
I was sort of tongue-in-cheek with my post but I admit that I had never thought of using a side-grind gouge for roughing the outside of a bowl blank. :o

I'm looking forward to trying it as soon as I can get this moronic "flat stuff" out of my shop (I'm REALLY close) and get on to some SERIOUS woodworking. That, of course, is reserved for the lathe! :)

Thanks again for the direction and mini-seminar. :D :) I guess that I will have to admit that my skew may NOT be the only tool that I need for the lathe. :) :)

Dale T.

[John Hart]

.....
What he said was that you learn to use the tools you feel comfortable with and that work for you. He said that the tool makers are the only ones that benefit from all the specialty tools on the market today.
Now I'm looking at all the tools I've acquired in the couple years I've been turning and wondering how bad I've been snookered.

Curt...you bring to light something that I've had in the back of my mind for quite a while (well...relatively speaking of course) ....That turning is really a freestyle artform when you get right down to it...and the tools you use, should be so comfortable that they become merely an extension of your body and that you should not have to "think" so much to use them. I have done this with my scrapers and skews to the point that I can flow through a piece of work without giving much thought to the tool, but all my thought goes into the form. Now...if I could just get the form thing down!!!!!:o Interesting story.:)

[Chip Sutherland]

I think I have 3/4 Sorby from my original set. Never thought it was beefy enough. I have 1 3/4 Raffan/Lacer style skew that I'd probably pickup first....not that I'm any good with a skew....I just don't use it enough.

[Don Orr]

Lets see-first of all you're doing great so far, keep up the practice. I use a Crown 1.25" Spindle Roughing gouge I got from Klingspor for about half the price of a Sorby (wish I could have responded sooner, sorry) and I love it. I had been using the largest gouge in the cheap HF set for a while and it worked well when sharp but not beefy enough. You will enjoy the Sorby very much!
Now-what Big Mike said-they are not for bowls!
What Glenn H. said is also true.
What Jim Becker said is especially true in ALL his responses. Bowls are turned with BOWL gouges. Take this information to heart. The right tool for the job is just as important in turning as it is anywhere else. Keep skews and spindle roughing gouges away from bowls. You are working on spindles so use spindle tools like skews and spindle gouges. And as always sharp, sharp, sharp.
Lots of good info here!

Take care, Don

P.S.- I'm an Xray/CT/MRI tech :D .