Attaching Face Frame To Bookcase

[Gary Groves]

I'm building wall unit bookcases. The main unit will be 10' long, 7' tall and 12 inches deep.

I also built a smaller stand alone bookcase. When I attached the face frame, I used all of my clamps. I realized, that when I build the face frame for the main unit, there's no way I'll be able to clamp it together especially in the middle.

So I say say to myself: "Self, use cauls".

I figure I could use 2x4's and clamp them vertically over the vertical parts of the individual units. I assume the cauls should be tappered somewhat, but, I was wondering how much? Assuming, that I use 8' 2x's as the cauls, how much in the middle should be flat? What about the angle from that point?

Thanks in advance.

Gary.

[Brian Hale]

5 layers of duct tape in the middle and 3 layers half way to the ends.

[Chris Padilla]

How about using pocket screws? These excel at such endeavours. :)

[Vaughn McMillan]

Another possible solution would be BowClamp cauls:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31535

- Vaughn

[George Summers]

"Just a couple of brads until the glue dries." (Norm - 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, etc)

George

[Dev Emch]

"Just a couple of brads until the glue dries." (Norm - 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, etc)

George That's Funny! I have heard that a million times but he never removes the brads after the glue dries....

[Gary Herrmann]

Ditto pocket screws.

[Stephen Dixon]

:D Just go to LOWES or HD and get their best 2x4 stud, I guarantee it will have enough bow to pull your face frame in tight.

[Roger Everett]

Easiest way to attach the face feames --16 penny common nails. If the bright chrome head bothers you, touch it up with a majic marker, and tell people they are Ebony dowels.
Roger

[Craig Feuerzeig]

As the resident expert ( or idiot, depending on your perspective:D ) on this subject (I have devoted much of my life, and livelyhood to curved cauls) I would like to share some of my expierence.

The bowed 2x4 would be a better choice than a tapered version, but they almost always twist as well as bowing. Anything tapered to a point will only provide pressure at the point. Also any flat spot on the caul will bow backward when bent.

Hand sanding and planing were always imperfect at best, leaving a few high spots. Inevitably I would break out the shims to pick up the slack, but the problem then was, as soon as you tighten one shim, the neighboring shim becomes loose.

Next thought is that 8 feet is an awfully long way, the arc on a 2 x 4 would have to be so great, to give enough pressure, that you couldn't straighten it with the available thread length of your clamps.

And thanks Vaughn!

[Michael Adelong]

:D Just go to LOWES or HD and get their best 2x4 stud, I guarantee it will have enough bow to pull your face frame in tight.

This only works if you go there intending to buy a straight one. If you go wanting to buy a curved one, you won't be able to find one. It will be the day when they have the nicest, straightest 2x4s you've ever seen in stock...

At least that's how my luck runs...

Michael

[Mike Cutler]

:D Just go to LOWES or HD and get their best 2x4 stud, I guarantee it will have enough bow to pull your face frame in tight.

ROTFL :D :D :D . Thanks for the laugh Stephen, I needed it.

I'd use an epoxy, less clamp pressure required, and the Duct Tape method, although I would probably use fiberglass packing tape instead of duct tape.

[Craig Zettle]

Just this week I attached face frames to about 25 or so 10' display cabinets, and our method was to cut a dado in the face frame, load it with glue, clamp a plywood strip (actually 3- 3/4 strips glued together to get enough thickness) stood on end, with 4 to 5 clamps each side. Put in 2 biscuts across the top of the cabinet, let the whole thing dry 2 hours, that's it.

[Jay Goddard]

As the resident expert ( or idiot, depending on your perspective:D ) on this subject (I have devoted much of my life, and livelyhood to curved cauls) I would like to share some of my expierence....


Craig,

After looking at your website and video I must say I am very impressed with your product, the Bowclamp. I'm interested in placing an order, but have one question:

You show the Bowclamp working with standard inexpensive bar clamps with round clamp faces to fit inside the t-track. Most of my clamps are either Bessey K-Bodies or standard 3/4" pipe clamps. These obviously won't fit in the t-track, but will there be any real problems using these very common clamps?

Thanks,

Jay

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Thanks Jay,

The Bowclamp will work with any clamp. Pipe clamps and k-body type clamps, while not attaching into the t-slot, fit right over the back and work equally well. The same goes for any deep-jaw clamps that have the larger pad.

[Gary Groves]

WOW,

There's a boatload of activity here. I go away for a few days, and my original kwestion, with tons of responses, is buried.

based, on the percieve sarcasm, 2x4's don't seem to generate a lot of support. :o

Pocket screws at least seem to be a better option? My concern, with pocket screws is I would think, they would be readily visible.

I've been hesitant to add brads, simply because of the staining process, I figured the filler would stand out like neon. Is this not a big concern?

Thanks again.

[Steven Wilson]

Why don't you blind nail your brads; peel some wood back, nail your brad, glue the wood back over the nail (use hide glue it holds stain), hold with tape, scrape level when everything is dry

[Craig Feuerzeig]

My apologies Gary, it was not my intention to hijack your thread. Rather I was trying to answer your questions without "hawking my wares", don't want to "disrespect the Bing". I think you'll find however, that the curved caul, while an age old idea, has previously never really been explored in any depth.

[Nathan Hoffman]

I brad nail almost everything now, and just make sure ou have a fill pencil that matches, and you'll never notice. On some real small pins, all it takes is a dab of wax to fill the hole. Just my $.02 Nathan

[Gary Groves]

Thanks.

I think with something this large, I'll break down, and use nails (until the glue dries :D ).

[Roland Chung]

Personally, I use pocket screws, but if you want to shoot a few nails until the glue dries, consider using the Grex 23 guage pin nails to shoot on your ff. I took a closer look at what the Grex pinner was doing and had to have one. I've got finish nailers and pin nailers, but they will be seeing a lot less action.

When I bought my first pinner, I was impressed that all I needed was a little wax to fill the pin holes. With the Grex, the holes are so small, they practically self seal. Really, the holes are sooooo small that in some cases, you don't need to patch them. There are other 23 guage pinners, but the Grex is one that I know of that shoots 1-3/8" pins.

Roland

[Gary Groves]

:confused: Perhaps, I'm not getting it about pocket screws.

I can see how you might use pocket screws to put a face frame together, but to attach the face frame to the case?

I assume you'd have to drill through from the case, to the frame. then from the side, you'd see the pocket holes?

Anyone have a picture? (worth 10000 words

[Bart Leetch]

So in the line of asking questions about using a 23 gage pinner does the pin set deep enough that a person could use a damp rag & steam iron to close the holes without causing rust?

[John Hemenway]

:confused: Perhaps, I'm not getting it about pocket screws.

I can see how you might use pocket screws to put a face frame together, but to attach the face frame to the case?

I assume you'd have to drill through from the case, to the frame. then from the side, you'd see the pocket holes?

Anyone have a picture? (worth 10000 words

No pic, so here are the 1000 words! :)

Pocket screws only work when the sides are hidden, like in kitchen cabinets. The end cabinet FF can be nailed, bisqueted, dowled, glued or ... The Sumerfled T&G system ( http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?id=202 ) looks good too.

[Steve Clardy]

I use pocket screws for face frame assembly.
Then, glue, clamp up to carcass, then I brad nail from the INSIDE to the face frame. No brads showing, no filler to deal with.
I have these pictures posted somewhere on here.
Be glad to send them to you. Just PM me with your email address.
Every time I try to repost pics, that darn screen pops up telling me I've already posted it. Darn it, I hate that. Grrrrr. Lol
Steve

[Gary Groves]

I love this board!

All the different ideas.

I would have NEVER thought about nailing from the back, lifting the wood nailing and hiding the nail, and I was not considering pocket screws since I don't have a Kreg, but, now I'll reconsider.

[Roland Chung]

So in the line of asking questions about using a 23 gage pinner does the pin set deep enough that a person could use a damp rag & steam iron to close the holes without causing rust?

That is a great idea! I haven't tried it yet, so I couldn't tell you whether it would rust or not. I think that they go deep enough and they seem to have some type of coating on them. For what I have been doing with the 23 ga pins, moldings, toe kick face (plinth cover), small cab part assembly, I haven't needed that extra step.

For something important enough to do that extra step, it would be best to run a test. Using the damp cloth and hot iron would probably require that the parts be unfinished too - I imagine. If you were trying to put together some prefinished parts and didn't want to risk damaging the finish, try using the Titebond HiPur system - a hot melt polyurethane glue gun or for larger scale projects, the EZ Pur system by 3M.

Roland