LN disapointment

[Roger Reynolds]

I was very excited to pick up my first LN plane today - the 60 1/2R rabbiting block plane. It cut nice out of the box, but being a perfectionist, I honed the sole and blade. The blade was in good shape but the sole took 2 hours of honing on a glass plate to get flat. I had to start with 150 and work up to 1500 grit. I did not expect this in a LN plane.
That said, it cuts as well as expected and is a nice addition to my shop. Has anyone else had this issue or did I get a "bad" one.

[Roy Wall]

Roger,

In my visits to the LN booth at the WWing shows.....Deneb has told me that the backs DO NEED to be flattened somewhat. He uses a 4-5000 Norton Waterstone to hone the back 1" or so-- but only about 5 minutes of work. He doesn't do more than this.

The final (back) edge is honed on an 8000 stone using the Charlesworth ruler trick. I've always just used the "trick" without honing the back at all with good results.

You'll like that little rabbet...good tool!

[Mark Stutz]

Roger,
I have a 60 1/2R and have not had to touch the sole of the plane. I have a couple LN planes, and have never had to do anything to the sole. In the future, I suggest giving them a call...likely a replacemant would be on it's way pretty quickly.

Mark

[Brad Kimbrell]

I have the 4 1/2 ductile iron model, the adjustable mouth block plane and just received the large shoulder plane. I also have both the straight and curved sole Boggs spokeshaves. Love them all.

I've never had any issue with any of them - especially the soles. Love the planes - before I got them I just thought that I was "bad at planing".

They make you feel like you know what you're doing. Each one of them works like a fine instrument.

Hope now that it's flat you can enjoy the music!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I believe that they advertise that their planes are flat within .0015". If your plane wasn't then it is faulty and should be returned. If they would not replace it or repair it then there would be cause to complain. How do you know that your glass is flat? Peter

[Alice Frampton]

Roger,

Did you try it before you out all that work (1500 grit?! Yowsers :eek: ) into the sole? Didn't it work? What did you test the sole against? Occasionally a rogue one will get through, just in the nature of things, but I wonder if it wasn't within tolerances all along? Either way, if it had been me I think I'd gone straight back to LN either for a replacement or reassurance. I'd bet on LN doing a better job on a sole than I can with abrasives, at any rate. :o

Cheers, Alf

[Michael Gabbay]

I would have sent it back. I have about 4 LN planes and other items. I have only once had an issue and it was with the small shoulder plane. They were great, I sent it back and they checked it (was within tolerances advertised) and gave me the option to replace it with the same type, replace it with another one, or get my money back. TLN is one of the best companies I've ever dealt with.

[Dan Racette]

I would sure check that sole and that glass plate with a known good straightedge. Glass is not flat. I used to work in the glass industry, and compared to something like a granite surface plate, glass is not as flat.

I would also let LN know. They stand behind their products and I am sure they would like to know.

[Bob Smalser]

Next time use 60-grit and the jointer table until its flat, then finish it off with finer. Or not. It only has to be flat at toe, mouth front, and heel. Your jointer table is much flatter than a hand plane sole needs to be.

Takes around 15 and never more than 30 minutes to do a full-sized, post-war, worst-case Stanley that way. And those planes usually have a deep hollow in them from edge-planing...even the smoothers

And I wouldn't worry about L/N's being out of true by small amounts. Just true them up. Castings need more seasoning before milling than any company can provide today. All those planes will eventually get out of true from use, and users need to learn how to fettle them.

I just fettled a free, '60's-vintage 5 1/2 last week as a gift to a 19-year-old beginner, and it shaves as well as any jack, including L/N's.

[Roger Reynolds]

Thanks to all for your reassurances.
No need to return it now - it is flat. It had a dished area about midway in the rear section and to one side. I am very impressed with it's performance and I am now eyeing the No 4 bronze smoother.



--Roger

[Derek Cohen]

<I>It had a dished area about midway in the rear section and to one side</I>

I am curious to know whether you have found any difference in the before-and-after performance. The area you describe should not have made any difference at all, and so I expect that the flattening you did was really just aesthetic.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Roger Reynolds]

Derek,

The performance out of the box was fine, but I detected an improvement after tuning. I suspect it was more due to the blade tuning than the sole tuning. I agree that the flattening was most likely aesthetic, but this is important to me. I expect to see a shinny uniform surface and it would have driven me nuts to view the dished area every time I set it on the bench. I take a lot of pride in buying the best I can afford and making them the best they can be. I must admit that how they look matters - that played a part in my buying decision.

--Roger

[Derek Cohen]

Roger

No need to apologise for lapping the sole of your LN - I would have done the same. Curse this obsessionality! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Wenzloff]

Roger

No need to apologise for lapping the sole of your LN - I would have done the same. Curse this obsessionality! :) Regards from Perth
Derek
You know, there are therapists that can help! ;)

Take care, Mike

[Jeff Geltz]

Roger,

I have over a half dozen LN planes. Shoulder, rabbit, block, jack and chisel style planes as well as their socket chisel set and a dovetail saw. I guess you could call me a fan. I haven't seen the issue you described. Maybe I've been lucky, but each one of these tools blew me away right out of the box. I agree with others that the folks at LN would make good if you wanted to call them regarding concerns with future purchases. I've spent quite a bit of time with them in their factory in Warren Maine on several occasions and I can tell you that even the guys running the C&C machines and bronze burnishers on the factory floor are serious about their work.

Jeff

[Roger Reynolds]

Jeff,

Based on the responses I got, I accept that this was a rare occurrence and I am willing to try another - I am currently eyeing the No. 4 bronze smoother.

--Roger

[Matthew Dworman]

the sole took 2 hours of honing on a glass plate to get flat. I had to start with 150 and work up to 1500 grit.

"polishing" your plane's sole beyond 220 grit is a complete waste of time. Black walnut has the abrasive qualities of p220 grit paper and I suspect that after planing a bit of anything will result in some noticeable "scratches". As Bob S. said, starting with a coarser paper, you should be able to flatten a #4 size plane in about 15-20 minutes. As with many things in the world of working by hand - if something is going slowly, you are probably using too fine of a tool (in this case, sandpaper) - go coarser and then refine with the finer after.
Matthew

[Mark Singer]

Of my many LN planes, I have only had to sharpen the iron.... I have found the soles to be precise and good to go right from the factory...

[Bob Smalser]

Reading these threads, sometimes I wonder how any fine woodworking got done at all in the 900 years before prestige tools came along.

[David Marcus Brown]

Reading these threads, sometimes I wonder how any fine woodworking got done at all in the 900 years before prestige tools came along.

I think it's a matter of objectives and personalities. I look back at some of my past projects and wonder why in the heck they took me so long to complete. Modern woodworkers (at least the ones that spend hours a day on wood forums) aren't doing this for a living and don't concern themselves with productivity. Even the Adam Cherubinis among us would admit to probably not being able to hold their own in an 17th or 18th century cabinet shop.

A lot of woodworkers like the "gadget" aspect of woodworking. As an example, it's simply amazing to survey the plethora of jigs and aids out there designed to make dovetailing "easier." I'll admit to having a bit of that but I've worked at getting beyond it to the point where I work in the shop to complete projects, not fine tune my tools to the N-th degree.

And, finally, from what I've read a majority of the modern workers are tech-no-geeks at their day jobs (me included) and escape to the woodshops on the weekends. Tech-no-geeks tend towards the anal/obsessive side so I wouldn't be surprised if many spend more time fettling than woodworking.

Take all of this with a grain of salt and with the knowledge that I'm speaking from experience. I used to tune a jack as a smoother and then wonder why it took me hours to take a cup or a bow out of a board. With sweat and experience comes wisdom -- and the ability to smile at old habits that I still indulge in from time to time.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Welcome to SMC, David!

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

And, finally, from what I've read a majority of the modern workers are tech-no-geeks at their day jobs (me included) and escape to the woodshops on the weekends. Tech-no-geeks tend towards the anal/obsessive side so I wouldn't be surprised if many spend more time fettling than woodworking.Gee, I wouldn't know anyone like that...:rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is that most everyone one has different interests, different reasons for being here, or on other woodworking forums. I can unfortunately only focus my time on the weekends, and even then I have committments with my family as well. Last night I spent about 3-4 hours testing some saws, and getting a set of tails cut for a dovetail joint I'm creating as a test/pre-cursor to 2 more like it that will be incorporated into an apron and ends for a dimensional workbench I have in my garage. As it was, I spent most of the time "fettlin'" as you describe it, rather than focusing on actual woodworking or the joint at hand.

Tonight I didn't feel like going out in the garage, it's cold, I'm beat from last night, and I can wait til tomorrow, or the next eve., or even the weekend...this type of behavior annoys Bob and possibly others, but it's ok with me.;-)

Many of us work differently, and the fact that some of us like quality tools and would buy a new LN hand plane, or heaven forbid a new saw, or a new set of chisels, well that seems to upset some folks also. I certainly respect a lot of Bob's advice and opinions, and probably more accepting to some of his ideas than he is to some of mine, but Bob is but one woodworker with specific interests himself.

I will be building a "Yuppie Bench" soon, and using Bill Weber's "Yuppie Bench" as a level to achieve of it. Bob Smalser made some comments in regards to Bill's bench on another forum, because Bill had a picture with Wine and a LN bench plane which appeared to be sitting on the blade...(probably was;-). The catch is that Bill is also a TechnoGeek and he has built a lot of very nice furniture, his benches included.:D

This "Yuppie Bench" will go into my office, and will provide an area for working with hand tools. Floor is solid purple heart, walls and ceiling is knotty pine. I will try to get a bottle of Nickel & Nickel wine (because I like fine wine;-) and get a picture of the my "Yuppie Workbench" with wine, a Sherlock Holmes style gord pipe (no mention of contents;-), some chisels, planes, and saws all resting on their cutting edges, and dedicate the picture to Bob Smalser. I'm certain Bob would frown upon this comfortable environment to work wood, but I think I would much rather prefer it to working in the mud, back by the boat shed.

Then I'll beat the $#!T out the workbench while I teach myself how to work wood at my own pace, the way I decide to do it, in my shop, using whatever tools I feel like purchasing and using.

Nothing against Bob, as I have pointed out I respect his opinions highly. Great person to have in the woodworking community, no question about that...one of the most helpful that I know of.

[David Marcus Brown]

Hi Mike,
Thanks!

Dave

[David Marcus Brown]

Many of us work differently, and the fact that some of us like quality tools and would buy a new LN hand plane, or heaven forbid a new saw, or a new set of chisels, well that seems to upset some folks also. I certainly respect a lot of Bob's advice and opinions, and probably more accepting to some of his ideas than he is to some of mine, but Bob is but one woodworker with specific interests himself.
Hi Alan,
I think that buying quality tools can get you into the workshop quicker because they don't require as much time to get them up and running. The planes in my shop are split about 50/50 -- 50% new and 50% old. The new ones are nice because you lift them out of the box, hone the blade and start woodworking. The older planes ones I purchased because I couldn't justify paying the price for a new #5,6 or 7. But, they did take a substantial amount of fettling to get them ready to work. What I take from Bob's advice is that you can spend a reasonable amount of time on the old tools to get them up and running or you can obsess over every detail and spend an inordinate amount of time when you could be woodworking. I have some saws in my till that need some work but I'll get to them when I have the time. Meanwhile, I have a saw on the way from Mike W that will help me complete some of my woodworking projects. Some day I'll get those saws tuned up -- I'll probably send them to Mike.

Dave

[Alan DuBoff]

Hi Alan,
I think that buying quality tools can get you into the workshop quicker because they don't require as much time to get them up and running. The planes in my shop are split about 50/50 -- 50% new and 50% old. The new ones are nice because you lift them out of the box, hone the blade and start woodworking. The older planes ones I purchased because I couldn't justify paying the price for a new #5,6 or 7. But, they did take a substantial amount of fettling to get them ready to work.I don't have a complete set of hand planes by any means, and the majority of planes which I do own are vintage Stanleys. I have a 60 1/2 block, 4C Type 11, 8 Type 11, and then have a few odd planes that do work that others have a hard time at (Stanley 151 spokeshave, Stanley No 20 Compass plane, newer Stanley english 78, Stanley 192 (recent), newer Stanley 5 1/4 I will use to make a scrub plane). At this time I own only 1 LN plane, a Rabett Block (60 1/2R).

I have used a friend's LN 4 1/2, and that's a beautiful plane I will own in the future. In fact, I plan to replace most of my vintage planes with LN or LV equivilants, because I believe these newer, modern planes are better tools which require less fettlin' as you point out.

I'm content with my current planes to do what I need at this time. I am in more need of getting my workspace built to suite my needs for the woodworking I want to do. I am splitting my shop for different needs, my garage will function as an area to dimension and prepare wood, where I have some power tools (table saw, SCMS, bench planer, et al), and a new space I created recentely for my home office, which will now double as space for hand tool work (mentioned above). I was planning to make this space into a music study, but find I like my upright bass with the piano in the house, and feel this is perfect space for hand tool work (and future "Yuppie Bench".;-)

http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/office/small_study_complete.jpg

What I take from Bob's advice is that you can spend a reasonable amount of time on the old tools to get them up and running or you can obsess over every detail and spend an inordinate amount of time when you could be woodworking.That's probably a fair assessment, but I won't try to speculate on all of Bob's advice, he gives a lot of it and I heed much of it. I think it annoys Bob that folks can afford to buy nice tools, wether needed or not, and maybe Bob feels that it is un-needed for quality woodworking. This is true, if how Bob does feel (that I'm not positive, can only say in regards to his posts;-), but shouldn't take away from the fact that many new tools are in fact better mouse traps, built to higher standards, and provide a better tool to the user in many cases..., "at a price". Yet, the "at a price" bothers some folks (not just Bob) and the fact that folks can afford to buy these tools without having to "pay their dues".
I have some saws in my till that need some work but I'll get to them when I have the time. Meanwhile, I have a saw on the way from Mike W that will help me complete some of my woodworking projects. Some day I'll get those saws tuned up -- I'll probably send them to Mike.I started collecting backsaws, and have more than 3 dozen of them. I have learned to fettle them myself, can clean, and tune them, and keep them sharp. I just couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in an old saw, and have worked with Mike Wenzloff to get some saws that I wanted. Mike refers to me as his "most difficult customer", but that will surely change as more anal retentive folks buy saws from him...:D

For some tasks I have saws that I will use, but I feel that folks need 2 backsaws of most sizes, one for rip and one for crosscut. I have a pair of Harvey Peace small tenon saws, one 10" rip, one 12" crosscut. These are great saws. But I also needed a saw that would be able to cut 3 1/2" - 4" joinery, and Mike made a saw to fit that need for me.

For small joinery saws, I couldn't find exactly what I was comfortable with and worked with Mike to get exactly what that was. I just received (a couple days ago;-) a pair of small joinery saws, 8" x 1 3/4" of usable blade, 16 points (I would have preferred 17 points, but 16 works fine...not one to bicker over 1 point;-), with a handle hang just a tad higher than some. Mike built me exactly what I wanted/asked_for. These are custom saws, and they show it. These are better than the LN saws to me, present more of a personal service Mike can offer, and are extremely high quality. I'll post on these says as soon as I finish up a test joint I'm making with the small joinery saws.

This flies in the face of folks like Bob, who I suspect feel I should be building projects and not worrying about my tools so much, but as I pointed out, we all have different interests, different reasons for being here (or other places on the inet), and it's not a problem for me. This is my hobby, and I want to keep it that way.

The bottom line is that no matter why folks are here, be it collecting old tools, acquiring new tools, doing woodworking with the tools, trading them, whatever, all have a right to do as they feel comfortable with, on their own time.

I like quality tools, wether that is old or new, a good quality tool can get me excited. I marvel at gadgets, mechanisms, and similar, seeing that I'm an engineer by trade this should be no surprise. I am strong enough to not only have, but to live my own dreams and how woodworking fills that interest which I have.

One last thing about some of the technogeeks such as me and yourself. Some of the old time woodworkers seem intimidated over the fact that we're competent enough to post pics and manage our own web sites. Should be no surprise, many of us do that for a living...;-)

Cheers!

[David Marcus Brown]

For small joinery saws, I couldn't find exactly what I was comfortable with and worked with Mike to get exactly what that was. I just received (a couple days ago;-) a pair of small joinery saws, 8" x 1 3/4" of usable blade, 16 points (I would have preferred 17 points, but 16 works fine...not one to bicker over 1 point;-), with a handle hang just a tad higher than some. Mike built me exactly what I wanted/asked_for. These are custom saws, and they show it. These are better than the LN saws to me, present more of a personal service Mike can offer, and are extremely high quality. I'll post on these says as soon as I finish up a test joint I'm making with the small joinery saws.Cheers!

I saw some pictures of your saws on woodnet or woodcentral after mike finished them up. I placed an order for mine a day or so later. Like you I initially wanted more ppi but I trust Mike and his experience more than my own. I can't wait to get it so I can begin using it. I have a nice Spehar dovetail saw, a refurbished (by Daryl Weir) Atkins crosscut tenon saw and now one of Mike's. A nicely tuned handsaw is a joy to use. I turn on the powertools only when the handtools aren't big enough for the task at hand. I keep checking out Mike's site to see what's new because compared to the Adrias and LN's his designs are unique and their customizations for the user make them very special. I imagine it's very much like commissioning a piece of art and getting a special enjoyment out of seeing another work by that same artist.

Dave

[Chris Barton]

Reading these threads, sometimes I wonder how any fine woodworking got done at all in the 900 years before prestige tools came along.

Thanks Bob, for a while I thought it was just me. I have 10 planes all of which collectively costs less than one LN and they all seem to work great. I must just be lucky...:p

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Reading these threads, sometimes I wonder how any fine woodworking got done at all in the 900 years before prestige tools came along. Well that's easy Bob. The woodworkers who came before us simply bought the best quality tool they could afford, or maybe some of them even went out and slowly but surely collected vintage tools that they felt were the best. Seems a bit odd to me, more like a stamp collection or something like that but to each their own. So some people go out and buy the new quality and others seek out the vintage and go that route. No real mystery here, not even something worth throwing into a conversation. Peter

[Chris Barton]

Well that's easy Bob. The woodworkers who came before us simply bought the best quality tool they could afford, or maybe some of them even went out and slowly but surely collected vintage tools that they felt were the best. Seems a bit odd to me, more like a stamp collection or something like that but to each their own. So some people go out and buy the new quality and others seek out the vintage and go that route. No real mystery here, not even something worth throwing into a conversation. Peter

Hi Peter,

I think that your next to last sentence is exactly what Bob is refering to. To some casual observers, the advent of "fashion tools" is largely a product of the last 50 years. Most folks who buy a LN (or many for that fact) do so more because they are often more aptly described as "plane collectors." While their counterpatrs exist in the vintage arena (I have several friends that can't drive past a yard sale or flea market without checking for that illusive Bedrock) most use these recycled tools on a very regular basis. Interestingly, most of the videos of production builders and true professionals very rarely feature a LN but, you will almost always see an old Stanley...

[Alan DuBoff]

I saw some pictures of your saws on woodnet or woodcentral after mike finished them up. I placed an order for mine a day or so later.Hey, you only have a few months left to take delivery! :D Poor Mike is peddlin' as fast as he can...

My saws were created over a several month period, and had a handle break on the first one. I'm very happy with them, they were just what I was after.

Like you I initially wanted more ppi but I trust Mike and his experience more than my own.I wouldn't worry about 1 point, it's very similar. I haven't quite narrowed down why the LN is difficult to start a cut with, Mike's saws are not and rumor is that it could be due to the fact that Mike files his saws by hand, a topic I have discussed with him quite a bit as well. I have a couple Disston 68s I like a lot, and that's the only reason I pick 17 points, that's what they were.

Will be interested how you compare Mike's saw to the others you have. I agree, and where Mike really adds value is in the personal service, not many that can provide that. Leif Hanson is another, and Adria probably could, but I somehow doubt you could order something not on the LN product line if you wanted a different saw, maybe you can. Those saws are a bit different than the Pete Taran Independence saw though...some say more refined, I say more work done by machine than done by hand.;-)

Thanks Bob, for a while I thought it was just me. I have 10 planes all of which collectively costs less than one LN and they all seem to work great. I must just be lucky...:pNo, you certainly aren't alone, and vintage planes do work nice and have worked that way for in many cases more than 100 years, just as vintage saws.

I just don't see anything wrong with someone preferring a LN tool, and be willing to pay for it so they don't have to live with small annoyances like sloppy adjusting nuts that need to be turned 2 revolutions to engage, requiring you go through 2 revs to back a smidgen off the blade and another 2 after it's set to snug it back up, or having a bunch of slop in the lateral adjusting lever, stuff like that. (I'm sure I'm probably the only person here to have seen these annoyances with otherwise perfectly fine vintage planes:p)

Peter makes a great point, that craftsmen probably always bought the best tools they could in their time, and it's no different now. Maybe you don't see the value in the LN or LV or other new tools. That's fine, but that has nothing to do what folks create with them and there is plenty of fine furniture made with those tools.

I don't know what videos you watch Chris, but I see a variety of LN, Stanley, and older wood planes even (Frank Klausz for instance). I wouldn't say Stanley dominates by any means. Although one would expect LN produced videos (one of the more popular series for woodworking) to use LN planes, you must not have any of those videos. They use their chisels also, go figure...:eek:

[Mike Wenzloff]

...I placed an order for mine a day or so later. ...Dave
And it went out today :D

I'm email you a pic a little later.

Take care, Mike
still peddlin'

[Alan DuBoff]

And it went out today :D

I'm email you a pic a little later.

Take care, Mike
still peddlin'Holly Moly Batman, you must have come up with an express program these days!:p

Ah, not to worry...my saws were well worth the wait.:cool: It was a pleasure working with you.

BTW, in regards to saws and this thread. As I mentioned earlier, I have a lot of backsaws. In acquiring such saws I have come to some basic observations on vintage saws vs. new saws (warning, this is for backsaws used for fine joinery). I have to admit that for pure usability and using the best tool, the majority of folks would do themself a favor and get a decent new saw. This is in regards to backsaws as I said, larger panel and hand saws are a different ballgame all together, IMO. Save your happy meal money and get a nice backsaw. Japanese saws as well, if you prefer Japanese saws, get a Mituskawa or similar. Certainly if you're on a really tight budget, get a cheap shark or cheap dozuki, or try to find a cheap vintage western style saw...

Much like LN planes, their saws as well as other new saws (Wenzloff & Sons, Norse Woodsmith, Adria, Spehar) will get folks started in cutting joinery, and I think it's a small price to pay for a quality and well tuned tool. You will still need to learn how to sharpen your saw, but you will want to keep it sharp when you understand the difference between a dull and a sharp saw anyway. :)

Some of the old saws are nicer in some ways that a new tool isn't, and if you can get a dialed in vintage saw, with nice shaped and sharp teeth, and a solid handle that doesn't feel like a maloof rocker, they're fine saws.

This is very similar to the Stanley planes, the ones that are dialed in are great tools (even with some of the quirks I mentioned about them). Vintage saws will also require being sharpened, so don't forget about that aspect if you acquire a vintage saw.

I'm not about to dump my Stanley planes, nor am I my old saws, but that doesn't make my new saws or LN plane or similar tools (you could lump my Glen-Drake Tite-Mark;-) any worse because they cost more.

Heaven forbid someone would buy a marking knife or awl from Chester Toolworks!:eek:

It's possible these folks are "all show and no go", to quote an annonymous internet woodworker...

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Chris. The stamp collection statement is actually referring to collecting vintage planes and the second last line of so some people go out and buy new quality and others go the vintage route is just what it says and nothing more. I don't believe that too many collectors are buying up LN planes. Much more likely that they are looking for the odd Stanleys and all of the infills. And as for fashion tools, I think most woodworkers are glad that companys like Spiers and Norris made such beautiful planes that work very well. Lastly, I am guessing that when new, a rosewood toted type 11 Stanley plane was probably pretty nice looking. Now however they are old and dated looking and for some reason people say that the new LN's are prestige or fashionable. Peter

[David Marcus Brown]

I got the pictures Mike and the saw looks Awesome! I can't wait to try it!

thanks so much for your hard work,
Dave

[Michael Gibbons]

After all, isn't it about woodworking? I prefer to buy new due to the fact that there are really no good antique stores that carry used woodworking tools close to my house. Like pro woodworker Rob Cosman said " I'm not into collecting or rebuilding planes, I use my tools to build furniture and expect them to be ready to go right out of the box". Pretty much says it all. Maybe buying tools and building the perfect shop is a quest for me while I produce the occassional piece of furniture. I don't cheat on my wife,beat my kid, smoke or hardly drink any more so I suppose spending money on tools keeps my mind occupied. I think it's bordering on obsession:rolleyes: .

[James Mittlefehldt]

After all, isn't it about woodworking? I prefer to buy new due to the fact that there are really no good antique stores that carry used woodworking tools close to my house. Like pro woodworker Rob Cosman said " I'm not into collecting or rebuilding planes, I use my tools to build furniture and expect them to be ready to go right out of the box". Pretty much says it all. Maybe buying tools and building the perfect shop is a quest for me while I produce the occassional piece of furniture. I don't cheat on my wife,beat my kid, smoke or hardly drink any more so I suppose spending money on tools keeps my mind occupied. I think it's bordering on obsession:rolleyes: .

I have met and really like Rob but I should also say he is a salesman for Lie Nielson in Canada so his statement above is not without bias.

[David Marcus Brown]

I have met and really like Rob but I should also say he is a salesman for Lie Nielson in Canada so his statement above is not without bias.

Is there a term for a woodworking spokesmodel or would he be the posterboy?