Dial Indicators

[Mark Stutz]

I'm looking for some advice from all the machinists out there, or anyone else that knows anything about dial indicators!:) I've been looking at the TS Aligner Jr setup for my shop. The basic unit comes with a "China" brand indicator. I can get a premium one like Starrett, Mitutoyo, ar B&S for about $70 more. They have several midrange choices that I have never heard of...Fowler, Tecloc, Peacock, and SPI. These are about half the extra charge. Are these any good? Should I spring for the high end model? I have always been a believer in the adage "You get what you pay for", but don't like spending more than I need to. Thanks for your advice.

Mark

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Mark,

Fowler and SPI are both reputable brands and produce nice accurate products. The basic cheapo magnetic base and the arm assembly will work fine with all of the brands. The TS Aligner is a good product, but a mag base and some dial indicators and test indicators (there is a difference) will provide far more versatility.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Mark, I have the TS Aligner tool, and I use the Dial Indicator that came with it. (I bought this used on Ebay, in great shape.) I have tested the "cheaper" indicator that came with the Aligner set against 2 other "higher end" indicators, and the one that came with the unit is smooth, and very accurate. I have heard from others that the Chinese Indicator that is standard with the TS Aligner can be problematic, but mine works fine. I would think for the money, you can do better with perhaps another Indicator, rather than spending the extra for a Starret unit. Just an idea for ya, but mine works great for me!

[Mark Stutz]

Hi Dave. Can you direct me or recommend some as I know nothing about this kind of stuff! Thanks.

Mark

[Mark Stutz]

Kevin,
Do you mean one of the mid range indicators for the TS Aligner, or a different product all together? Thanks.

Mark

[Bruce Page]

Mark, as Dave mentioned, both the Fowler and SPI are quality indicators. I haven’t heard of the other two.

[Tom Jones III]

Kevin,
Do you mean one of the mid range indicators for the TS Aligner, or a different product all together? Thanks.

Mark

There are several threads that you will be able to search on discussing this, maybe try a search on "aligner"? Several people had suggestions on how to make your own. I made one out of scrap and it could not have taken more than 2 or 3 minutes.

[Bob Johnson2]

I was flipping through the ww'ing magazines at the book store yesterday and one of them had a test of the various makes. They had Hardwick's as the best buy. They said something about the Staretts being made in China now. I didn't read th whole article but being in the market for one it caught my eye for $29.
http://www.ehardwicks.com/product_line/pros/SEN-B-26.htm

[Lou Morrissette]

Mark,

I've used both SPI and Fowler as well as Starrett, B&S and Mititoyo and they all operate with a great degree of accuracy. A $20 Fowler or SPI would probably cost you $80- $100 at Starrett or Mititoyo.

Lou

[Jim Becker]

The dial indicator that was included with my TS Aligner Jr works perfectly well.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Kevin,
Do you mean one of the mid range indicators for the TS Aligner, or a different product all together? Thanks.

Mark

Sorry I wasn't clear Mark. What I meant to say was you could buy another mid range indicator, if you weren't comfortable with the unit that comes with the TS Aligner. I know there are other products that will do the job of the TS Aligner, but I really like the versatility of mine. As Jim mentioned, the stock indicator that came with my set works just skippy!

[larry merlau]

i was shown this to use for checking out and adjusting the table saw and jointer, didnt catch what you were doing with your tester but this worked great when we were being shown, better than a mag base dial indicator, you do need a test idicator which can also be gotten at this address http://www.grizzly.com/products/h2713

[Bruce Page]

i was shown this to use for checking out and adjusting the table saw and jointer, didnt catch what you were doing with your tester but this worked great when we were being shown, better than a mag base dial indicator, you do need a test idicator which can also be gotten at this address http://www.grizzly.com/products/h2713

I’ve been extolling the virtues of the simple Surface Gauge for years ( I grew up calling them a Universal Gauge). These handy tools are great for aligning TS fences, jointer tables and a whole host of other things.

[Lee Schierer]

You can buy Mitutoyo digital dial indicators for about $500 each and they won't align your saw any better than the $19.95 dial indocator from Harbor Freight. Fowler and the others are a bit less. At best you will need to align your saw maybe 2-3 times over the life of the saw unless you really work your saw hard or transport it a lot. Why invest so much in a tool that will get used only a few times for an alignment that doesn't have to be that close in the first place. I will agree that any dial indicator makes the job easier. Save your money for a nice router bit or good chisel.

We need to remember we are working with wood and that the humidity change from one day to the next can cause changes of .010" or more. Having a saw aligned to less than .001 is admirable but hardly necessary to do good work and only serves as bragging material.

Note This post was not meant as a rant and should not be interpreted that way, merely a statement of fact.

[Jerry White]

Hi Mark,

Just an echo of the other TS Aligner Jr owners before me. I have the standard dial indicator and I don't think I could be any happier with a Starrett or Mitutoyo.

Jerry

[Dave Anderson NH]

Mark, you can get good deals on Fowler, SPI, the chinese imports, and Mitotouyo and Starrett from MSC Industrial Supply. They send me out sale flyers monthly and there are always good deals on inspection equipment. The sales come often enough that I only buy stuff when it's on sale. www.mscdirect.com (http://www.mscdirect.com)

[Steven Wilson]

We need to remember we are working with wood and that the humidity change from one day to the next can cause changes of .010" or more. Having a saw aligned to less than .001 is admirable but hardly necessary to do good work and only serves as bragging material.
You're implying that since wood moves we can be careless in aligning our tools: WRONG !!!!! Your tools are your reference, and whatever you make will only be as good as your reference. It doesn't take much slop in aligning your table saw fence to make it dangerous (toe it in .10" and see what happens) and it doesn't take much work to get it aligned correctly. Your machine alignment tools should be one grade better than the accuracy in alignment you're trying to achieve, and your machines should be one grade better than the projects you plan on producing. So, a decent straight edge, B grade surface plate, machiniest square, dial indicators, etc. all have their place in the shop. I can sure tell that my panels assemble and glue up a lot easier when I can get a 5 sided cut on my sliding table saw good to .005" or better over 8'.

[Mark Stutz]

Thanks for all the input.

Bruce, I would have no idea how to use such a thing! Have never even heard of a Surface Gauge before.

Remember, I have NO mechanical background of ANY kind. The TS Aligner system appeals to me since it comes with an instructional DVD. I've never even used a dial indicator before!

[Bruce Page]

Thanks for all the input.

Bruce, I would have no idea how to use such a thing! Have never even heard of a Surface Gauge before.

Remember, I have NO mechanical background of ANY kind. The TS Aligner system appeals to me since it comes with an instructional DVD. I've never even used a dial indicator before!

Mark, I'll try to take some pics tonight or tomorrow and give a demo on aligning the TS fence with a surface gauge.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Mark, the TS Aligner is a versatile tool for many of the stationary machines in the Woodworking Shop. It works great for the TS, but it has many other uses, as the video will show. There are many ways to skin a cat, but this tool makes things easier, faster and accurate. I don't mind spending time tweaking my tools to get the best possible performance from them, but I would rather be using them than adjusting them. Nothing beats the safety and performance of a well tuned machine. I think you will enjoy the results, and it is pretty easy with this tool. A good investment in my opinion! :)

[Gary Curtis]

Having just received a sliding table saw, I needed to make critical alignments in the X,Y,Z axis. I had my dad's old 1940s vintage Starret dial indicator. But I didn't trust it. I bought a magnetic base from Lee Valley and a $14 digital dial indicator at the Harbor Freight store. Chinese, of course.

The manuals that came with the saw and sliding table instructed me to make static and moving measurements at about 9 places.

I set up the machinery using the Chinese indicator. For the hell of it, after everything was calibrated and bolted up tightly, I used the old Starret. All measurements matched. I actually preferred the mechanical Starret because it was much more "responsive" as I moved the sliding table under it.

And there was a cheap quality to the buttons on the digital indicator. Hitting the ZERO button once wouldn't work. I had to repeat it a few times, which of course throws off the mounting on the indicator and changes the distance between it and the surface being measured. I had the feeling the whole device was about to go 'belly up' any minute.

Gary Curtis

[Jim Dunn]

Bruce, I would have no idea how to use such a thing! Have never even heard of a Surface Gauge before.

Mark not to steal Bruce's thunder, but you see those pins sticking out of the top of the base. They can be pushed out the bottom and used to make a parallel run along the blade using the mitre slot. You can also use the slight slim pointy thing to scribe lines at a particular height or along the length of a board. At $15 it a bargain. Just keep it oiled.

Jim

[Bruce Page]

Mark not to steal Bruce's thunder, but you see those pins sticking out of the top of the base. They can be pushed out the bottom and used to make a parallel run along the blade using the mitre slot. You can also use the slight slim pointy thing to scribe lines at a particular height or along the length of a board. At $15 it a bargain. Just keep it oiled.

Jim
Jim, CRAAACCCCKK BOOOM! (Thunder...)
That's exactly what I'll show in the pictures.

[Bob Aliano]

Mark, I don't believe there is any measurement in a wood shop that requires anything better than a HF dial indicator. It's great to have names like Starrett scattered around the shop but why not spend the cost difference on a router bit or saw blade, that's where you really need quality.

[CPeter James]

Here are some photos of one of the tools that I use in the shop for alignment of my table saw and other things. The dial indicator came form MSC and the part number (on sale) is "GP76450071". Cost is $8.99. I have several of these and while I would not use them to tool up for rocket engines, they are fine for tool alignment in the woodworking shop.

http://members.localnet.com/~cpjvkj/di1.jpg

This is the back side. The 1/4" by 1" carriage bolt is recessed into the sliding piece. The row of holes is 3/4" on center.

http://members.localnet.com/~cpjvkj/di2.jpg

Here is another one in a different mount that I use to dial in the depth for my router bits when I am using my Akeda dovetail jig. This one is zeroed at 9/16", so I just read the depth that I need for my dovetail bit.

http://members.localnet.com/~cpjvkj/di3.jpg

CPeter

[Dale Thompson]

Mark,
I have two 6" Starretts and four Grizzly 4" dial calipers. I hate to say it but I have to watch the Starretts closer than the Grizzly units. :( The Starretts have a tendency to "jump" a tooth once in a while and don't zero out.

The Grizzly (or comparable) units were about $10. That is not much more than a decent regular caliper and a LOT more accurate. :) I even use them on a spinning lathe to "size" diameters. If I "whack" one, it is not a big loss. By the way, I have yet to "whack" one! :cool: :)

It may be true that you get what you pay for but you shouldn't pay for more than you need. As has been mentioned above, measuring wood to .001" is a temporary "mirage". :eek: Take the wood outside and let it sit for a few hours. HMMM!? The change in dimension is NOT a defect in your dial vernier caliper! :confused: :eek: :)

Dale T.

[Rob Wilson]

HF has the dial indicator for $6.99 and mag base for $7.99 through Mar. 27.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha......................

You guys really DON'T want to know what I paid for my dial guage ......... (yes too much) but it was the only one I could find for sale, ANYWHERE and I had to order it in special.

It is a Peacock brand, and it is top notch, but WAY too expensive.

Cheers!

[larry merlau]

Jim, CRAAACCCCKK BOOOM! (Thunder...)
That's exactly what I'll show in the pictures.
thanks for the support bruce! i knew i could get some of you guys stirred its really simple and that is what makes it work so well

[Kyle Kraft]

I'm with Bruce (above) and prefer my good 'ol Starrett surface gauge for alignment. It has pins that can be pushed down and hooked in the t-slot of the saw for blade and fence alignment.

Kyle