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View Full Version : Witnessed Any Light Bulbs Turning On This Year?



Doug Evans
08-03-2003, 8:56 PM
It was kind of a neat day today down at the shop... a guy was in building a chariot plane (under my expert supervision... Sorry had to add some humour)... Rajiv was in helping me put in a door frame... and a guy, let us call him Al from Galt... came in to borrow a book from me on making doors and windows.

Al, edgedly from Galt, brought in some hand tools (a great little steelback saw from St. Catherines and a clean Monty foreplane with a bit of an open throat and some serious iron trouble - pick a bevel any bevel). Admittedly, Al kept most of this stuff around for decorative ambience in the shop. Well, I fired up the LV water pond (everyone gets a plug on this show) and managed to get some decent shavings from the said device. At this point, I could see that Al (from Galt ya know) was in a place that he had not been before. It was not long afterwards, that Al from Galt took a few test runs with an infill smoother - just gotta love that slicing sound and the ribbons...

Al, from Galt, hung around for another half hour or so watching the chariot being dovetailed. Al is not going to be a hand tools convert next week but, he has certainly had a taste of how it could be.

How many of the other neanders here have had an experience this year where they introduced a non-suspecting "normite" to the bright side? Could ya see the wheels turning?

Regards,

Doug

Dave Anderson NH
08-04-2003, 11:19 AM
A Normite woodworker lives about a 5 minute walk from me on the next street and was introduced to me one of the guys at Woodcraft. He had been over to my shop and invited me to visit his. While taking the tour and talking about tools he brought out a Stanley block plane and a cheapo #4 Stanley clone. He was complaining about how neither of them cut well and how he had honed the irons but there were still problems. To make a long story short, about half an hour of fettling and resharpening solved the problem. Both planes now perform well though he has some major work to do on developing his ability to use them and care for them. I see a number of acquisitions in his future. The real fun was explaining to him how he would spend less time with his sanders eliminating planer and jointer marks.

Noah Alkinburgh
08-04-2003, 11:25 AM
While you guys may not have witnessed it many of you have been responsible for my light bulb turning on. I have really enjoyed using hand tools and have continued accquiring them. The latest addition is a set of scrapers and some small spokeshaves. I forgot to get a burnisher when I got the scrapers, and the scarry thing is I am now thinking of making my own!!! GASP. Thanks for helping to turn on the lights.

Noah

John Schreiber
08-04-2003, 11:39 AM
Given that light bulbs have to be plugged in to work, I'd rather light a candle. :)

Marc Hills
08-04-2003, 12:17 PM
Well it really wasn’t until this winter that the light bulb even went off over my own head. Under the gentle tutelage of Dave Anderson and Roger Nixon, I now rarely reach for a power tool and when I do, I’m likely to regret it.

But this spring I helped a neighbor re-attach the pneumatic closer on his storm door. He came to me because his first repair hadn’t held up for even one season. I told him we needed to remove a section of the softwood doorframe and epoxy in some good hardwood to better hold the screws. Truth be told, I did use a router and a homemade template to remove the lion’s share of the softwood.

He was amazed however, at the difference between his chisels and mine when it came time to square up the corners of the mortise we made. I showed him how I could shave hairs off my forearm with mine. He could not have been any more astonished if I had showed him a working laser gun. I sharpened up his chisels at the end of the day and he left with a big goofy grin. I think he was trying to think of things he could chisel away at.

You have to understand this is a guy who came to me last fall because he knew I had a table saw and needed a simple cross cut. He was actually impressed I did the job with a handsaw.

The piece of oak scrap I selected for the doorframe retrofit was too thick however. When I produced an old Stanley no 4 smoother, he could not believe that old thing not only worked, but also worked exceedingly well in removing a quarter of an inch of wood in a matter of minutes.

That’s the typical reaction I get from my friends, most of whom I’d describe as mere home handymen, as opposed to dedicated woodworkers of either the Normite or the neander persuasion. I’d like to say that I’ve made converts of hardened power tool users, but truthfully I don’t actually run in a woodworking crowd.

My acquaintances are merely astonished that not only do I use the old tools, but that they work so well. It’s as if they somehow believe that people a hundred years ago just did without fine furniture and exquisite cabinetry. Many of them do understand (if not fully appreciate) things like dovetail joints and a nice finish, it’s just that it somehow hasn’t occurred to them that those techniques were done by hand.

John Allman
08-05-2003, 10:18 PM
I know how this works. I was just minding my own business when this guy that has an old plane fetish, starts posting stuff in every discussion forum I look at. There he is at the wood shows, antique tool shows - you name it. You can't escape this guy, and he has a partner who is equally crazy, spreading the gospel on hand tools.

You think - it's kind of neat these guys think they can make a buck selling old planes! What's next? Buggy whips?

I drop in at Tool Junkie to see what they have to say. Well Ben spoke for two hours and the time just flew by. This stuff is actually interesting. A few weeks later I drop in to the shop in Galt, and before I know it I have committed to not one, not two, but three plane kits. Doug and Ben are masters of the soft sell. "Why don't you come here and build your kit?" they ask.

I built a shoulder plane a few weeks ago with Ben's guidance, and found myself back in Galt again on Sunday building a chariot plane (under the excellent tutelage of Doug - when he wasn't putting up doors or trying to convert another poor (or soon to be poor) innocent to the dark side).

The sense of accomplishment in building a plane is very different from any woodworking project. Fabricating with steel is a rather foreign concept to most woodworkers. As I learn and understand the processes, I am working up to plane number three, which will be a smoother.

Thanks Ben and Doug for introducing me to the joys of plane building.

John

Paul Barnard
08-06-2003, 12:01 AM
Very nice John. I've just started my shoulder. Spent an hour in the shop and have the shell peined up. I had a bit of trouble getting around the bolts when peining the sides. Did you have that problem or is there a trick to it?

I hope mine comes out as well as yours!

John Allman
08-06-2003, 6:19 PM
Very nice John. I've just started my shoulder. Spent an hour in the shop and have the shell peined up. I had a bit of trouble getting around the bolts when peining the sides. Did you have that problem or is there a trick to it?

Well Paul, I could tell you a story or come clean with the truth.

I was up against a deadline, as this kit was a birthday present from a group of friends. I had to have it ready to show them at the party. There was a bit of a supply issue with the manufacturer (we all know who that is but we will not mention names) and Ben kindly offered to give me a unit that he had started, and it had already been peined. I took over and finished it from there, so I can't offer any sage advice. I figured I would have the pleasure of starting from scratch on a 3/4" shoulder, but have opted to move up to a smoother instead, which I think will be of more value to me in the long term.

I did pein the chariot that I have almost finished, but the construction does not involve bolts and nuts, just brass pins that can be pushed out of the way. It still required holding the plane at the edge of the steel base plate while hammering things together.

I think I saw you name on the list for the Neander weekend. I will be there and looking forward to meeting you and the other folks that hang around here as well.

John

Doug Evans
08-06-2003, 11:17 PM
to get people to believe that they can achieve these kind of results in a day... You get into all of that fluffy stuff like "feeling of accomplishment" , etc. and you begin to bear witness to people falling asleep standing up in front of you with their glazed eyes open.

Truth is though, I would rather sell a kit than a finished plane ten times over. That "feeling" is the core of the business - it's something that we are so very very proud to have brought to this community. We have tried to level the playing field, shifting the emphasis from pride of ownership to pride of accomplishment.

Paul... with the shoulder... start with the bottom, then rivet in the wear plate up by the wedge, hit a few of the side tails that you have access to and then let the bolts float free and move them in and out as required.

Great job John... and thanks for lunch (that Ben... he never feeds me)!

Regards,

Doug

Paul Barnard
08-07-2003, 9:12 AM
Paul... with the shoulder... start with the bottom, then rivet in the wear plate up by the wedge, hit a few of the side tails that you have access to and then let the bolts float free and move them in and out as required.
Doug
That's what I did in the end.
I may have screwed this one up though. The front edge of the mouth is a tad higer than the back. When I looked at it I recalled your sage advise to go carefully when peining this bit as the support in this area is a little weaker. If only I have remembered before I started. Anyway I'm sure it will come out fine in the end just have a slightly wider mouth than I would have liked.
One other thing, either you are getting less optomistic with your timings or I'm getting faster. I had this one from flat bits on the bench to peined up in just over an hour. I've got to draw file and lap it but it looks like the metal working is going to be around the 2 hour mark.

Roger Myers
08-07-2003, 11:34 AM
Paul,

Since I plan to be building a shoulder during the great Neander Meander I'm really looking forward to being able to draw upon the experiences of everyone else... This will be my first infill and I can imagine the many ways that I screw it up. I know the masters Doug and Ben will provide great guidance but it's probably second nature to them (building infills, not screwing up :) )

Wondering since some of the kits were to be shipped to us in advance of October, just how far we should go in the process...Doug/Ben??

Looking forward to meeting everyone there, and since Dave and I will be travelling together, I'll make sure the trunk is well stocked with his tools :)

Roger

Ben Knebel
08-07-2003, 4:08 PM
Hi Folks;
In reply to Roger --I would suggest that if you're doing shoulders and/or chariots go no farther than getting the dovetails filed--there'll be plenty of time to complete the shoulder in a day.

If you're doing a panel or smoother then I would suggest that you get it to the point where the rear and front infills have been glued in place and stop there( that means the shell has been piened and the throat plates rivetted in place).--don't do the throat fitting or any of the rivet peining etc--if you take it that far there will be plenty of time to finish the plane while you are here and with luck even take shavings before the end of the day ( 5 or 6 o'clock). We don't want to cut too far into drinking time.

Regards
Ben

Doug Evans
08-07-2003, 4:15 PM
Hi Paul:

If you are using that new stationary sander, point the rear end of the sole upstream. It will remove minimal material from the lead edge of the throat.

Roger... have your steel filed and sidewallls interlocking. If there is a problem, we will provide new metal when you get here.

Regards,

Doug

Roger Myers
08-07-2003, 4:21 PM
Hi Folks;
In reply to Roger --I would suggest that if you're doing shoulders and/or chariots go no farther than getting the dovetails filed--there'll be plenty of time to complete the shoulder in a day.

If you're doing a panel or smoother then I would suggest that you get it to the point where the rear and front infills have been glued in place and stop there( that means the shell has been piened and the throat plates rivetted in place).--don't do the throat fitting or any of the rivet peining etc--if you take it that far there will be plenty of time to finish the plane while you are here and with luck even take shavings before the end of the day ( 5 or 6 o'clock). We don't want to cut too far into drinking time.

Regards
Ben

Ben - thanks for the advice, and for helping me keep my priorities straight....
Roger

John Allman
08-10-2003, 8:11 PM
[QUOTE=Doug Evans]It was kind of a neat day today down at the shop... a guy was in building a chariot plane (under my expert supervision... Sorry had to add some humour)...

I finished off the chariot plane today (if you don't count sharpening the blade), and thought I better post the results. Doug had hoped I would bring it to the Durham, Ontario wood show this weekend, but other pressures did not alow me to finish the plane.

Next is the smoother.

John

Paul Barnard
08-10-2003, 11:12 PM
Next is the smoother.

Fantastic job again! Looks like you are racing me for the set ;) Your building quicker than me but I got a head start. My shoulder is ready fro finishing, I roughed off the sole and sides this evening. On to the hand lapping from here.

P.S. Doug, looks like the mouth is'nt going to be too bad. I gave if a few good whacks (with a Todd hammer) on the side of the pins right in front of the mouth and it has pushed the sole down a tad. It was a 'nothing to lose' techneque but it seems to have worked for me.

Bob Oswin
08-11-2003, 8:29 AM
I have a complete void where it comes to any knowledge of what you guys are saying , however I am fascinated by the process.

What does the raw material look like before you pein it?
I can't, for the life of me, figure out what it is you are peining. :(
Could one of you elaborate a bit?

regards
Bob

John Allman
08-11-2003, 8:44 AM
What does the raw material look like before you pein it?
I can't, for the life of me, figure out what it is you are peining. :(
Could one of you elaborate a bit?

regards
Bob

Bob:

Here is a picture of the 1.5" shoulder plane after being peined. The sole and the sides are three distinct flat pieces of steel. They are joined together with dovetails, filed at two different angles, which are then forced together with a ball pein hammer to fill the voids. Look closely along the bottom and you will see the dovetails.

Also in this photo you see the cocobolo infills and the as yet unpeined rivets. Also the triangular section in the middle will be cut out.

Hope this helps.

John

P.S. to Paul: I am not trying to catch up to you, but you know what Ben and Doug are like, those mercilous hard sell plane pushers. :D

Bob Oswin
08-11-2003, 9:48 AM
Bob:

Here is a picture of the 1.5" shoulder plane after being peined. The sole and the sides are three distinct flat pieces of steel. They are joined together with dovetails, filed at two different angles, which are then forced together with a ball pein hammer to fill the voids. Look closely along the bottom and you will see the dovetails.

Also in this photo you see the cocobolo infills and the as yet unpeined rivets. Also the triangular section in the middle will be cut out.

Hope this helps.

John


Clear as a bell now John:
Thanks!
So if I understand this process, the metal is laser cut to size and peined together by the hobbist along with the fitting of the wood filler blocks and honing the iron?

I would say the perfect marriage of modern technology and traditional hand skills.
Looks like a fun project.

regards
Bob

John Allman
08-11-2003, 6:09 PM
Clear as a bell now John:
Thanks!
So if I understand this process, the metal is laser cut to size and peined together by the hobbist along with the fitting of the wood filler blocks and honing the iron?

regards
Bob

Bob:

Well, that and a lot of filing and sanding, and more filing and sanding, a little BLO and some wax, and you too can impress all your friends and relatives.

John