Japanese chisels

[Mike Henderson]

Anyone have experience with the Grizzly Japanese chisels? Are they decent chisels for the money? Or do you have a recommendation for any other brand of reasonably priced Japanses chisels? Or if you tried Japanese chisels and didn't like them and want to sell your set, send me a PM.

I have a hard time understanding why some Japanese chisels are so expensive - almost $100 per chisel. From what I've read, every Japanese chisel manufacturer purchases the steel from commercial suppliers and uses wrought iron or very low carbon steel as a backing. I realize that some of these expensive chisels are hand made and that may be the reason why they're so expensive. But are there any technical reasons why those hand made chisels should be "better" (meaning that they take a better edge or hold the edge longer) than machine made Japanese chisels which use the same steel?

Mike

[Charlie Mastro]

It's just like anything else. The more it is hand made the more it costs. There are mass produced tools and there are hand made tools like Steve Knight's planes. Which do you think has more care and spirit put into them?

The better chisels have more time put into making them by their makers and they use different types of steel that only certain blacksmiths can temper successfully. The chisels are sometimes hand scraped and not ground to final shape. Some chisels become works of art because of the grain of the steel in the shanks that show off the folded patterns of the steel. Does this make it a better tool? Perhaps not but it sure becomes a thing of beauty to behold. Look at a hand made infill plane and the work that goes into that compared to a Stanley Bedrock.

I think if you look at how Japanese chisels are made with the tang and socket connection and the way the hoop is seated so you can hit the chisel with a steel hammer all day long and not hurt it. When you begin to realize how much work goes into these chisels then you can appreciate why they in my opinion out perform most other chisels hands down. As my wife likes to say “They got good Ju Ju” :rolleyes:

[Jim Young]

Just as a note, take a look at Tasai chisels, they are in the $2-300 range a piece.

I would like to know the difference too. I want to buy one "good" chisel and compare it with the typical japanese chisels that I have. I just can't part with that much $$ for one chisel, yet. The next question would be will my skills be able to differentiate the difference in the two qualities?

[Mike Henderson]

I don't understand why hand forging makes a better chisel than machine forging. From what I have read, many of the hand made Japanese chisels are made on equipment that we would classify as "blacksmith" equipment, without much in the line of instrumentation for control of process variables.

I also do not understand why certain steel can be better tempered by hand than by machine. The smith must use very subjective indicators, such as the color of the steel, to determine the temperature, while factory made steel can use very accurate temperature measurements. I would expect that there would be significant batch-to-batch variability in the output of hand made chisels, even when made by the same smith.

It seems to me that a human controlled process would be best for producing different outputs since the human can adapt easily, and for adding artistic effects, which are a human judgment, especially on a per tool basis. For example, if a tool was being made especially for a customer and was being customized to that customer, the human might do a better job, especially if artistic effects were to be included in the customization.

But to produce the exact same product day after day, with consistent quality, a machine would be much superior.

I can certainly understand appreciating the "care and spirit" that goes into making a tool and for those who value that, hand made tools are available. But for those of us who just want a good tool at a reasonable price, perhaps a machine made tool is better.

What I was asking was "Are there any technical (not artistic) reasons that a hand made Japanese chisel is superior to a machine made Japanese chisel?" If there are not, I would choose machine made Japanese chisels.

Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

There are all kinds of reasons, to name just a few: often the forging is done in a pine charcoal forge, it's difficult to match up the layers of metal, the cutting steel must be hard and durable, when people are doing the pounding they can stop/adjust more easily because they're generally working slower than machines, the materials are more expensive (especially the old wrought iron) and scarcer, the handles and blades seem better fitted to each other, etc.

And then I'd have to ask you why you use hand tools instead of power tools.

And then I have to say that you should hold, simply hold something special like a Tasai ultra thin paring chisel, then use it. You will know the difference.

As to Grizzly, I'd suggest not. Most of the cheaper Japanese chisels, like western chisels, bend and/or break.

Pam

[Charlie Mastro]

Let me direct you to another forum that has a lot more information on this subject and by a lot more knowledgeable people than my self. If you take the time to read through some of the old posts there is a wealth of knowledge to be had.
http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=931&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=b37b8ad5667a7d88c3f32e6688728438

Hope the link works but they are disscussing different tool makers and problems they have had with tools and you may find it interesting.

Short answer to your question is get what ever Japanese chisels you feel comfortable buying and give them a try. I don't think you will be disapointed. If you find you like them then buy a more expensive chisel by another maker and see how you like it or if you can tell any difference. You'll still have a good tool no matter which one you buy.:)

[Mike Henderson]

Pam, can you suggest a brand of Japanses chisels that are reasonably priced and will provide good service?

Charlie, Thank you for your pointer. I will check it out. I hope you are correct that I will not be disappointed in whatever Japanese chisels I choose. I can see reasons why they might be superior for my needs/desires.

Pam, Regarding the comments you made about the hand forging, I do not understand why any of the things you said would make a superior chisel. I feel confident that a piece of steel can be forge welded to a piece of iron very well by machine, certainly to the point that no usability differences can be detected. The steel in Japanese chisels is modern commercial steel, while the backing may be wrought iron or a very low carbon steel alloy. I do not see any reason why old wrought iron would be superior in this application to a modern very low carbon steel alloy, especially since it is not the cutting edge, but only the backer.

I do use some power tools but often do work that requires hand tools because of the shape or because it's easier to do with hand tools than power tools. Additionally, I enjoy doing hand work. I assume your comment about holding a certain tool in my hand is related to the artistic aspect of that tool. While I appreciate a beautiful hand made tool, right now I'm just looking for a well functioning set of tools at a reasonable price. $100+/- per tool is just out of my price range.

I've tried a number of brands of western chisels and find that there's not a lot of difference in edge holding quality. In my opinion, the edge on western chisels deform too quickly (and yes, I've tried many different sharpening angles). I look at carbide cutting tools with envy and wonder why we can't make chisels that hold an edge as well as those tools. That's why I want to try Japanese chisels - to see if the harder steel equates to better edge holding.

Mike

[Maurice Metzger]

And then I'd have to ask you why you use hand tools instead of power tools.
Pam

Beg pardon? I don't know about others, but I use hand tools instead of power tools because I don't want to deal with machinery and because I follow the ancient Japanese maxim 10 本の指をよい持っていることは (having 10 fingers is good) (OK, I made that up).

To me, folks with routers, bandsaws, etc. are like airline pilots flying a 747 with both hands full. I'm just having a good time flying my Piper Cub around.

If I can get it done with an inexpensive tool, so much the better - but I'm cheap.

It is strange that the low-end Japanese chisels are panned by everyone, when low-end mass produced Japanese saws work extremely well, at least for me.

- Maurice

32996

[tod evans]

p michael, kinda off topic here, sorry, but have you tried making your own with some of the newer alloys on the market, m-2, t-1 and who knows what else is out there? you may be able to have the best of both worlds..i have some knifes made out of m-2 that hold an edge well and t-1 is supposed to be even tougher.....02 tod

[Mike Henderson]

Tod, No, up to this point I haven't thought of making my own. I do welding but have never really tried any smithing. Also, I am *very* space limited - my shop is 10' by 11'. I wouldn't mind learning more about how to make tools but right now it's probably not an option.

Thanks for the idea - I wish I could.

Mike

[Michael Fross]

Tod, No, up to this point I haven't thought of making my own. I do welding but have never really tried any smithing. Also, I am *very* space limited - my shop is 10' by 11'. I wouldn't mind learning more about how to make tools but right now it's probably not an option.

Thanks for the idea - I wish I could.

Mike
Mike,

At risk of taking this a bit off topic, this is a book I was looking at but have not yet purchased. When I get time, I'm going to pick it up. Not sure if I'll actually do it, but I'm sure interested.

Book Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964399989/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-5932768-3191132?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=283155)

Regards,

Michael

[tim langford]

P. Michael,

Why don't you try just one of these and see what you think. Not too much $ and they are really well made and nice to hold.

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/J!14.300.htm

I have a number of these (can't remember if they are blue or white steel) but they do take a very sharp edge. I wouldn't pry with them though because I think they tend to be more brittle than western ones.

Mine came from Japanwoodworker I think.

[Mike Henderson]

Tim, Thanks for the pointer. Those look like reasonably priced Japanese chisels. I'll buy a couple in sizes I use a lot and give them a try.

And knowing that you have tried them and are reasonably satisfied helps. Thanks for the recommendation.

Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam, can you suggest a brand of Japanses chisels that are reasonably priced and will provide good service?

...Regarding the comments you made about the hand forging, I do not understand why any of the things you said would make a superior chisel. I feel confident that a piece of steel can be forge welded to a piece of iron very well by machine, certainly to the point that no usability differences can be detected. The steel in Japanese chisels is modern commercial steel, while the backing may be wrought iron or a very low carbon steel alloy. I do not see any reason why old wrought iron would be superior in this application to a modern very low carbon steel alloy, especially since it is not the cutting edge, but only the backer.

I do use some power tools but often do work that requires hand tools because of the shape or because it's easier to do with hand tools than power tools. Additionally, I enjoy doing hand work. I assume your comment about holding a certain tool in my hand is related to the artistic aspect of that tool. While I appreciate a beautiful hand made tool, right now I'm just looking for a well functioning set of tools at a reasonable price. $100+/- per tool is just out of my price range.

I've tried a number of brands of western chisels and find that there's not a lot of difference in edge holding quality. In my opinion, the edge on western chisels deform too quickly (and yes, I've tried many different sharpening angles). I look at carbide cutting tools with envy and wonder why we can't make chisels that hold an edge as well as those tools. That's why I want to try Japanese chisels - to see if the harder steel equates to better edge holding.


Well, after 4 years of buying and using Japanese tools, my definition of reasonable has drifted upward significantly. Dave Burnard says his Matsumara's from Japan Woodworker have worked fine for some years. I buy only the sizes I need, no sets, so that saves significant monies.

Old wrought iron is significant because of the way it braces the cutting steel. What also matters after a while is how well the hard steel is shaped/mated with the soft. Also what matters is whether the shaft is straight. Your argument about modern steels I reject, it does make a difference how skilled the blacksmith is.

We used to make chisels that held edges like the current Japanese tools do, they're laminated, and come in brands such as Witherby, Herring, Addis, Pexto, and so forth. I also use several of these old chisels. For the current western producers, I recommend Two Cherries, Pfeil, and Dastra. Many also like the LN chisels, but I have no experience.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

Forgot to address your power tool/hand tool response. I use hand tools partly because of quiet, joy of use/feeling of achievement, use of electricity vs food to fuel the body, small shop; but I also love the quality of a surface on good wood made by high quality hand planes and chisels, far superior to sand paper. I often don't even need to finish the surface, and just love the feel of the raw, smooth, burnished wood.

Pam

[Dave Burnard]

An assumption we "modern people" often make is that machine and or industrially made products are inherently better (or equivalent) to the things our predecessors could make without modern equipment. Whereas in actuality the mechanization had little to do with improving or even maintaining the same quality but rather was to increase production and decrease costs. Over time more corners are cut and we end up with the scenario of 10-20 years ago when people started to realize that most modern western WW hand tools were crap compared to what was made pre 1950, or compared to what you could make yourself, or have made in small batches.

Still, an automated forging and heat treating process is full of shortcuts and compromises compared to what an expert human maker would do. The automated process may produce more predictable results, but it does not necessarily produce the same results.

[Mike Henderson]

Pam, thanks for your response. My definition of "reasonable priced" is significantly less than $100 per tool. Those tools may be wonderful but, for now, I'll never find out because of the cost.

I don’t know why you feel that old wrought iron is superior to modern metals. Old wrought iron was made in a forge from pig iron from a blast furnace. The heat and gases from the fire reduced the carbon and silicon content in the iron but it was not sufficient to bring the iron to a full liquid condition. The slag was liquid and mixed into the iron. This lump of iron was then removed from the forge and hammered (wrought) to drive out the liquid slag. However, all the slag was not removed. If you look closely at etched wrought iron, you’ll see “slivers” of slag mixed with the iron. This is the reason why wrought iron is somewhat resistant to rust. Also, the ironmasters did not have the ability to control the other elements mixed with the iron so the exact composition of the wrought iron was variable.

Compare that to modern iron and steel which is very well controlled and repeatable. Perhaps your preference for wrought iron is based more on the “romance” of using old iron than in real measurable differences in performance of the tool.
</O:p
Thank you also for your message about why you do hand tool work. The exact reasons each of us has for doing hand tool work probably has little to do with whether hand forged Japanese chisels have any technical advantage over machine forged Japanese chisels.


Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Dave, It is certainly possible to produce inferior products either by hand forging or by machine forging. To argue that hand forging is better because short cuts can be taken with machine processes is not a valid argument. Our comparison needs to be between people using each process and attempting to make quality products.

I don't think there can be a valid argument made that hand forging can make a better product than machine forging. If that were true, precision machine parts for critical applications would be made on charcoal furnaces, out of 150 year old metal, without any instrumentation to monitor the process – only the subjective skill of the smith.

Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

Basically I think Japanese tools are superior based on use, which is why I've raised my "reasonable" quite significantly. I also forgot to mention that the "hold it" advice is not about art, it's about balance, feel, the sense of confidence that's derived therefrom, to say nothing about the marvelous work it does.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

...

I don't think there can be a valid argument made that hand forging can make a better product than machine forging. If that were true, precision machine parts for critical applications would be made on charcoal furnaces, out of 150 year old metal, without any instrumentation to monitor the process – only the subjective skill of the smith.

Mike

The 9 mm Tasai very thin push chisel is not that much over your limit, $112 at Hiraide, so you could try it without a huge risk. But hey, if your mind's already made up, why ask the question?

Pam

[Mike Henderson]

I think you misunderstood what my limit is. It is significantly less than $100 per tool. Tim, in an earlier post, pointed me at some Japanese chisels that are more in my price range and I plan to purchase a couple of those.

Regarding "having my mind made up", I am looking for reasonable explanations for why these very expensive Japanese chisels are worth $100 (or more) each. So far, I have not heard any arguments that stand up to reason as to why I should pay that much.
</O:p
Arguments that hand forging produces a better tool have not been persuasive. Arguments that 150 year old wrought iron is superior are not persuasive.

Your comment about balance and handling qualities could be a good argument but I'm mostly interested in the edge holding qualities right now. I simply cannot afford to triple the price I pay for intangibles like that, right now.
</O:p
Overall, to my mind, I am not persuaded that expensive hand forged Japanese chisels are inherently better than machine made Japanese chisels.

Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
[COLOR=black]Regarding "having my mind made up", I am looking for reasonable explanations for why these very expensive Japanese chisels are worth $100 (or more) each. So far, I have not heard any arguments that stand up to reason as to why I should pay that much.
</O:p
Arguments that hand forging produces a better tool have not been persuasive. Arguments that 150 year old wrought iron is superior are not persuasive.

Your comment about balance and handling qualities could be a good argument but I'm mostly interested in the edge holding qualities right now. I simply cannot afford to triple the price I pay for intangibles like that, right now.
</O:p
Overall, to my mind, I am not persuaded that expensive hand forged Japanese chisels are inherently better than machine made Japanese chisels.

You're not persuaded because you're not listening.

Pam

[Mark Duksta]

Here's a review on Grizzly chisels:

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Spokeshave_on_GrizzlyJapaneseChisels.htm


Mark

[Charlie Mastro]

Well said Stu. :)

[Keith Hooks]

The question Dave asks is certainly a reasonable one and I haven't seen any answers that address the question in enough detail to satisfy me. Personally, I have faith that a handmade product from a master craftsman could easily be "better" than a mass-produced machine made product. Whether it's worth the added cost (it will cost more) is entirely subjective. I use the word faith because I don't have the expertise or process specific knowledge to point to exactly what a master blacksmith/toolmaker brings to the table. That's precisely the question I'd like to see answered.

Working metal by hand should offer some of the same benefits as working wood by hand. The biggest benefit I see is the flexibility. There's always variation in manufacturing and handwork can adapt to variation more readily than a process in mass production.

As for Japanese metalworking, I suspect there are techniques used to improve the quality and strength of the metal that just aren't feasible in mass production. I'd like to hear what some of those things are.

Handmade doesn't always mean better (as evidenced by my early days in woodworking) but the potential is there in a lot of cases. The difficulty comes in quantifying HOW it's better.

[Mike Henderson]

Thank you all for your comments. As someone who builds hand made furniture, I can certainly appreciate the work, training, and skill that goes into hand forged Japanese chisels.

I often talk to people about my furniture work and sometimes they ask me how much I would sell a piece of furniture for. Most are shocked at the price. For them, a piece of factory made furniture is quite satisfactory and provides what they desire, at a price significantly less than what I could build it for. And I have to agree with them.

Remember the question that I started this thread off with. I asked if there was any technical reason to expect that hand forged Japanese chisels are 'better", meaning that they take a better edge or hold it longer.

I have listened to the things you said (although Pam may believe that I haven't), but so far, I have not heard anything persuasive to convince me that, for my needs, the extra cost of a hand forged Japanese chisel is worth while. Compared to the price of the Japanese chisels that Tim pointed me to, hand forged chisels are easily three times the price.

Basically, I'm looking for the Japanese chisel equivalent of factory made furniture. Maybe one day, after I have a chance to see if I like Japanese chisels, I'll decide that the intangibles in a hand forged chisel are worth the price, but right now, for a first try, I'll start with the ones Tim pointed me to.

Thank you all for your comments. I very much appreciate hearing your opinions - I value them all.

Mike

[Charlie Mastro]

Let's put a cap on this... Done... Finoto... Asta la vista baby...:D

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks, Stu. I do understand how Japanses chisels are made.

I would appreciate any pointers to reasonably priced Japanese chisels, say in the range of $30-$40 each.

Mike

[Chris Lee]

Mike,
If you go to hiraida's site, (www.Japanesetools.com (http://www.Japanesetools.com)) you will be able to find a lot of information about these chisels. I have a few of the Shodo Bench chisels and I have been very satisfied. These were my first Japanese chisels so I bought 1 just to see what I thought. After using them and holding them there is nothing that feels so comfortable in my hand. Depending on the size you are looking at, you can get in your price range. I would order 1 chisel instead of a set. You may be right and wont like them but most who try them really enjoy the weight, balance and general feel of the chisel as well as the great results achieved. If you want call and talk to the guys at Hiraida, they can give you more information than I can.

Good Luck with however you proceed.

[Dave Burnard]

A quick note about using wrought iron vs mild steel material in laminated chisels - western or japanese. The slag remaining in the wrought iron can actually work to your advantage here, as it makes sharpening go a bit faster.
And if you're used to sharpening unlaminated chisels by hand you'll notice how much quicker it is to sharpen the bevel side since only 20-25% of the bevel is made up of hardened steel.

At to Mike's price point for Japanese chisels, I think you should aim a little higher say $50-60 and just buy a few chisels while you are evaluating.

Two other sources to look at are www.misugidesigns.com and www.hidatool.com, both sell Fujihiro brand which I have used for many years - a good solid and reliable chisel.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for all your suggestions. Now, I have too many options :-). I'll have to do some additional research before I make a choice.

Thanks,

Mike

[Chris Whitehair]

I would appreciate any pointers to reasonably priced Japanese chisels, say in the range of $30-$40 each.

Well I bought an incredible set of 10 handmade japanese chisels for about $325.00 US. The catch was I was in Osaka when I got them. While wandering around Den Den Town, which is the electronic shopping street, I found an alleyway where all traditional japanese tool stands were. There were several shops full of traditional chisels, planes, and saws. In one shop there was a young guy who spoke very fluent english. In the other shops I used a copy of the japan woodworker to point at various chisels that friends had requested if I could find (I found and fullfilled every request). All the japanese were amazed that there were people in america that are interested in the traditional tools. In the shop where the guy spoke english he explained the traditional tool making process. The set that I bought came in a gorgeous wooden box and were stamped with both the makers mark, and the mark of the shop where I purchased them. They are far and away the best set of chisels I have ever used. Very smooth, well balance, sharpen easy and hold an edge forever. When I went to the Joyful Honda with Stu I bought a couple of machine made chisels that were lower quality. While they work fine and certainly hold their own against something like a marples, they are not in the same league as the handmade set.

Anyways, I am sure you can find a good set of machine made japanese chisels for the price you are looking for. Maybe try and hit a woodworking show, some of the importers are often there and you can try out their tools.

Good Luck,
chris

[Steven Wilson]

Give Harelson a call at Hiraide (www.japanesetools.com) and discuss your requirements with him. I have a number of chisels from him, some exquisite some more pedestrian - all are extreemly good. I tend to use western bench chisels (Lie Nielson, Two Cherries) and suplement them with japanesse paring chisels for the very, very fine cut they provide. Harelson is a great guy to do business with and he is very good at respecting your budget.

[James Owen]

Anyone have experience with the Grizzly Japanese chisels? Are they decent chisels for the money? Or do you have a recommendation for any other brand of reasonably priced Japanses chisels? Or if you tried Japanese chisels and didn't like them and want to sell your set, send me a PM.

I have a hard time understanding why some Japanese chisels are so expensive - almost $100 per chisel. From what I've read, every Japanese chisel manufacturer purchases the steel from commercial suppliers and uses wrought iron or very low carbon steel as a backing. I realize that some of these expensive chisels are hand made and that may be the reason why they're so expensive. But are there any technical reasons why those hand made chisels should be "better" (meaning that they take a better edge or hold the edge longer) than machine made Japanese chisels which use the same steel?

Mike

Mike,

No experience with the Grizzly chisels.

For relatively inexpensive, decent quality Japanese chisels, take a look at the ones sold by Woodcraft. They range from about $25 to just over $50 per chisel, depending on size. I've had mine for a couple of years now, and have had no problems with them. They take and hold a good edge, and are easy to sharpen on water stones. I'm really happy with them; they provide a good capability for a reasonable cost.

As far as hand forged chisels (and other cutting items) go, if I understand this correctly, one of the characteristics imparted by hand forging -- repeatedly folding and hammering the steel in the same fashion as katanas are traditionally made -- is that it "smooths" the grain structure of the steel; that is, it makes it more uniform, and improves the strength of the piece of steel. One of the side benefits of this process, apparently, is better edge-retention, although I'm under the impression that edge-retention is more a function of heat treatment than steel composition (even though both affect it). Since I'm not a metalurgist, my understanding of the process and result may be completely off-base; if so, someone (more) knowledgeable out there please correct me and enlighten all of us.


James

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks, James for your recommendation of Woodcraft. I hadn't thought of them but will check them out.

Regarding your note about repeatedly folding and hammering the metal, as far as I know, that is not done with Japanese chisels. The hard part of the chisel is a modern steel. Folding and hammering will not do anything to improve it, as far as I know. The backing may be wrought iron which does have a “grain” because of the slag inclusions. But increasing the grain structure probably does not affect the performance of the iron because it is just the backer material and needs to be ductile. Additionally, the chisels are produced in volume. The artisan really can’t spend a lot of time on each chisel, even if it sells at retail for $100. Their share is probably not more than $50, maybe less, and they have to pay for the materials (including the handle), pay the overhead of the shop, and pay any helpers before they make any money themselves.

Some time back, I found a good description of the manufacture of historic Japanese swords in “A History of Metallography – The Development of Ideas on the Structure of Metals before 1890” by Cyril Stanley Smith, 1988, MIT Press, Chapter 6, pp 40-62. Their construction is quite complex but they did fold the steel perhaps 20 times, giving 2^20 layers.

But I'm not a metallurgical expert either so maybe somebody out there can enlighten all of us.

Thanks again for your recommendation. I had not thought of Woodcraft but will check them out before I make a decision.

Mike

[Dave Burnard]

It would be better to say that "folding and hammering" it is not often done - and certainly not done on anything but very high end tools. Sometimes the maker will add this information to the stamps on the tool - say on a plane where there's room for more kanji. "5 times tanden" for 5 times folded and hammered out - usually referring to the soft iron backing. A few smiths (Yataiki, for instance) will fold and hammer out the cutting steel as well but this is very rare these days.

You can occasionally still buy plane blades, knives and chisels made with a tamahagane (the traditional steel used for making swords) cutting edge and this steel will definitely have been folded and hammered multiple times. Such a tool will be very expensive, but highly desirable to big time collectors. Not many toolsmiths have the skill set required to work with tamahagane as it behaves very differently from the modern steels they use.

Woodcraft used to sell a decent line of japanese chisels, last time I looked I couldn't actually tell who the maker is. probably still a decent chisel.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

P Michael, I find Japanese chisels brittle and hard to use without chipping the edges. I certainly wouldn't pay anything near $100 a chisel for one, but that's just my experience. Pam, for one gets excellent results with them and believes them worth the price. But then she's just another opinionated Texan:D I find few people are ambivalent about Japanese edge tools, you either love them or hate them. Sounds like you are in that later category so I have to wonder why you are interested in buying one?

I see "disagreements" like this all the time. Is a Stanley Everlasting chisel worth $100 when a whole set of Two Cherries can be had for less and perform at least as well? To some people it is and to others it isn't. Different strokes for different folks.