Epoxy Manhatten bowl results...pic!

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Here a bowl I made a week or so ago. It is spalted hackberry and was way too punky to get a smooth cut. I used my Epoxy Manhatten method and here is the result:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/MesquiteMan/Epoxystabilizedhackberry.jpg

For those who don't know, the epoxy manhatten (aptly named by Bill Stevener!) is System Three epoxy thinned with DNA to the consistency of real maple syrup. You turn your piece to a little thicker than you want and then apply this until the wood will not take anymore. Let it sit 48 hours to cure and then finish turning. The really punky areas will soak up more epoxy and give a visual contrast, as in this case. The white areas are good solid wood that did not drink any up.

I gave the bowl away but IIRC, it is around 5" diameter and 5" tall with wall thickness of 3/8 or so. The epoxy completely penetrated 100% on the punky areas. I know the form is not anything exciting but i was really just experimenting with the wood. The wood was soo punky you could stick an awl 1 1/2" deep into the blank in some areas!

[Chris Barton]

Here a bowl I made a week or so ago. It is spalted hackberry and was way too punky to get a smooth cut. I used my Epoxy Manhatten method and here is the result:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/MesquiteMan/Epoxystabilizedhackberry.jpg

For those who don't know, the epoxy manhatten (aptly named by Bill Stevener!) is System Three epoxy thinned with DNA to the consistency of real maple syrup

So, if it is the consistency of fake maple syrup it won't work?:eek: It looks great and I guess this means I've got to get some system 3 epoxy...

[John Hart]

I was already sold on this idea...and your bowl is a shining example why. Pretty exciting that all the wood I thought might be unworkable now has new life and possibilities. Thanks Curtis!!:)

[Jim Dunn]

Very nice Curtis. Glad it worked for you. I too used "epoxy manhattan" and it hardend up the wood nicely. But I have a question. What is system 3 epoxy. The stuff I bought is 2 part epoxy with 5 min drying time. Is it a brand name?

Jim

[Dick Parr]

The bowls looks great Chris.

[Tyler Howell]

Way too nice I like the punk!!

[John Miliunas]

Well done, Chris! The method used has given that piece 'o wood a new life. :) Question, though: How tough then is the post-epoxy to turn??? Rough on tools??? :) :cool:

[Bernie Weishapl]

Great work Curtis. I am going to try that next time instead of CA. Bowl looks great.

[Andy Hoyt]

Jim - System Three is a brand name for a suite of epoxy products.

Curtis - I wonder if you'd getter better results using Grade A Fancy Maple Syrup from Vermont as opposed to all other lower forms of syrup from lesser locations.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

So, if it is the consistency of fake maple syrup it won't work?:eek: It looks great and I guess this means I've got to get some system 3 epoxy...

No, Chris, it will NOT work! It has to be EXACTLY like real maple syrup and I am not talking about some commercially made crap either. Nothing but the best Vermont syrup will work!!:)

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Very nice Curtis. Glad it worked for you. I too used "epoxy manhattan" and it hardend up the wood nicely. But I have a question. What is system 3 epoxy. The stuff I bought is 2 part epoxy with 5 min drying time. Is it a brand name?

Jim

Jim,

As already mentioned, System Three is a brand. The only reason I mention a brand name is because that is the only one I have tried this method with. My concern with 5 minute epoxy would be the initial thickness before thinning. How were your results with the 5 minute?

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Curtis - I wonder if you'd getter better results using Grade A Fancy Maple Syrup from Vermont as opposed to all other lower forms of syrup from lesser locations.

Andy, that is EXACTLY what I had in mind! Is there any other kind of maple syrup?!

My parents have a small house/cabin in West Burke, VT and they spend 3 months every summer up there. Beautiful place! Our entire family spent 7 days up there this past Christmas and my wife and I have been up one other time in the fall for the leaf change. I love it up that way!

[Andy Hoyt]

Ah yes. The Northeast Kingdom. No finer spot on the map. Any map.

[Glenn Hodges]

Spalted wood has an appeal to me especially wood that is bland before it spalts. I have not used the epoxy/DNA method, but plan to in the future, thanks for reminding me and showing us this beauty. I always say the spalting is nature's way of painting.

[Mark Cothren]

Excellent Curtis! Nice bowl and I appreciate the information - will give it a try one of these days.

Thanks for the picture!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I like that bowl and the results of the cocktail!

[John Hart]

....I always say the spalting is nature's way of painting.

What a nice thought Glenn. May I steal that?

[Paul Douglass]

Like the bowl. Question - can you use acetone instead of DNA to thin the epoxy? Another question - is there something that will work the same but not turn the wood dark?

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Like the bowl. Question - can you use acetone instead of DNA to thin the epoxy? Another question - is there something that will work the same but not turn the wood dark?

Paul,

No, acetone will not work as well. I started out using acetone but the epoxy would not set up properly. I had one batch where I left some in a cup to see how it cured and it never fully cured. It was always rubbery and soft.

The darkening is equivilent to using BLO on the piece and different woods will darken to a different degree. Taking a piece of spalted hackberry and applying BLO renders similar darkening characteristics. In this particular piece, the spalted, punky areas were already a little dark to begin with.

Hope that helps.

[Paul Douglass]

Thanks Curtis, it does help. The reason I asked, I have been playing around with some sagebrush wood, to try to make a pen or wine bottle stopper or something out of it. Sagebrush wood gets real punky real fast so it has to be soaked in something. Only problem, when it is soaked it turns a real ugly dull brown color.

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Curtis,

Fine report, I had no doubts that your experiments would work.

Have you tried any of the other products mentioned, other than the ones you have previously noted.

And, if you will, how thick was the pre finished bowl when you applied the E/M.

Great looking bowl,

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[John Hart]

E/M? Too Funny Bill!

I can see it now:

To make your EM in accordance with the SOP, use Sys-3 and DNA or IPA and mix to the consistancy of VRMS....It is not advisable to use BLO. The EM should be applied to your HF ASAP to ensure proper absorbtion.

:)

[Bill Stevener]

That should cover any patents. Feel sorry for any turners that didn't get in on this from the beginning.:eek:

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Andy Hoyt]

Hey! I've been here all along and I still don't get it.



Oh, this will draw them guys like maggots to a PM.:D

[Jim Dunn]

Jim,

As already mentioned, System Three is a brand. The only reason I mention a brand name is because that is the only one I have tried this method with. My concern with 5 minute epoxy would be the initial thickness before thinning. How were your results with the 5 minute?

Curtis the epoxy I used was 3M brand 5 min. epoxy. Initially it was thick, when mixed with the DNA I got it to about milk consistency. A little thinner than what you are describing. My first and only attempt with using it seemed to work OK. It did seem that the area I was concerned with was a little soft but it finished and buffed alright, for me anyway.

Jim

PS: Andy if you quit making maple syrup from elm trees it will taste better:)

[John Hart]

...
PS: Andy if you quit making maple syrup from elm trees it will taste better:)

Which has me thinkin'.....If Ambrosia Maple is given it's wonderful stain because of bug poop....Then....well.....maple syrup is sorta flavored.....um...

Well, nevermind.:rolleyes:

[Andy Hoyt]

Which has me thinkin'.....If Ambrosia Maple is given it's wonderful stain because of bug poop....Then....well.....maple syrup is sorta flavored.....um...

Well, nevermind.:rolleyes:
Back when I was a young lad growing up on the farm, walking 29 miles to school after milking the chickens each morning; we also "sugared". And I gotta tell you, there is no finer ambrosia to be had than to drink this sweet nectar of the gods straight from the tree.

[Ernie Nyvall]

That looks great Curtis. The spalting turned out real nice.

I wonder now about using it on the bark of a natural edge. It might help on the tear out next to the bark too. Hmmm

thanks for reminding us about the mixture.

Ernie

[John Hart]

Yup...me too Ernie. I'm roughing out that piece of walnut you sent me and that's exactly what I was thinking. Also have a NE Curly Buckeye in the wings that'll fit in with this process. It's a great idea Curtis!!:)

Almost as great as milkin' Chickens!

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Curtis the epoxy I used was 3M brand 5 min. epoxy. Initially it was thick, when mixed with the DNA I got it to about milk consistency. A little thinner than what you are describing. My first and only attempt with using it seemed to work OK. It did seem that the area I was concerned with was a little soft but it finished and buffed alright, for me anyway.

Jim


Jim,

I wonder if the fact that the 5 min epoxy starts out so thick that once you get it thin enough to penetrate, that you have diluted it too much to harden properly? The results I have experienced have been punky wood that was soft enough to stick an awl though going to solid wood that you can not scratch with your fingernail. I have not tried the 5 minute stuff so that may be the issue? I have no idea, just conjecture at this point.

[Jim Dunn]

Curtis I just may have thinned it to much. I haven't had a chance to turn anything lately but when I do I'll try to leave the "Epoxy Manhattan" a little thicker. I'll use the epoxy I've got for now anyway.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Jim,

Please be sure to let us know if it performs any better with less thinning. If not, then it may be the 5 min stuff. Together we can all perfect this technique! Thanks.

[Jim Dunn]

Another question if you please. Could you use laquer thinner instead of DNA? Just wanted to ask.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

You might be able to. I have not tried it. If you look at the side of a can of lacquer thinner it will list some of the ingredients. The one I use lists acetone, alcohol, naptha, toulene, etc. so I would be concerend that it may bo too strong. I konw it will remove just about anything, including dried latex paint! Give it a try and let me know!

[valerie williams]

So, Iread these threads without a clue in the world what is going on. I dont ask because I would have a question in every thread, but I think Ireally need to know this so I have started a folder of knowledge you might say, maby eventually that folder will make sence to me. Now keep in mind that I am a house wife and know nothing about anything youwould find in the hardeware dept, I clean house, clean babies and crochet and for some reason I was bitten by the wood working bug and now I am obsessed, for a 25 year old woman, I have some of the strangest hobbies, lol. Anyway, here are my questions...
What is PUNKY wood? How does it happen,at what point can youtell(on the tree, after its cut, after its turned?), etc....
What is epoxy and DNA? Where do you get it? What else is it used for.
I dont know how wood dye works yet, but could you add the dye to this mixture since its soaking through toe wood anyway and get kind of a marbeled affect?

Thats all for now I think...Thanks for letting me air my questions
huggs
Val

[John Hart]

So, Iread these threads without a clue in the world what is going on. I dont ask because I would have a question in every thread, but I think Ireally need to know this so I have started a folder of knowledge you might say, maby eventually that folder will make sence to me. Now keep in mind that I am a house wife and know nothing about anything youwould find in the hardeware dept, I clean house, clean babies and crochet and for some reason I was bitten by the wood working bug and now I am obsessed, for a 25 year old woman, I have some of the strangest hobbies, lol. Anyway, here are my questions...
What is PUNKY wood? How does it happen,at what point can youtell(on the tree, after its cut, after its turned?), etc....
What is epoxy and DNA? Where do you get it? What else is it used for.
I dont know how wood dye works yet, but could you add the dye to this mixture since its soaking through toe wood anyway and get kind of a marbeled affect?

Thats all for now I think...Thanks for letting me air my questions
huggs
Val

I'll take a couple Val.
1. Punky wood is basically rotten wood. It is spongy, almost like cork and it is difficult to turn. Generally, there is very pretty accompanying wood surrounding it so you want to keep it in tact and deal with it. Unstabilized, it'll rip out of the piece as you are turning it and leave gaping holes.
2. Epoxy and DNA - Epoxy is a two-part adhesive and DNA is Denatured alcohol. Epoxy is very thick and cures like plastic...The DNA mixed with it creates a thinned version that will soak in and harden the punky wood.

[Earl Eyre]

I haven't tried this on bowls. But I have used a lot of System Three epoxy buiilding a bunch of canoes. So here are a couple comments--take them for they are worth. You can dilute epoxy all the way down to applying it like a penetrating oil. Stuff I read at the time recommended and what I used was lacquer thinner. It worked great. You have to be careful not to thin it too much or you will end up with thinner and not epoxy. A little goes a long ways. Evidently DNA does works fine, too. I would be cautious of pure acetone because it dries so fast. If you don't want to experiment you can buy penetrating expoxies. Just do a web search and you will come up with many. I'm going to have to try this on my next punky bowl. I've just used CA with mixed results and alot of CA!! It seems like you can squirt a whole bottle into a small area.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Earl

[Jim Dunn]

So, Iread these threads without a clue in the world what is going on. I dont ask because I would have a question in every thread, but I think Ireally need to know this so I have started a folder of knowledge you might say, maby eventually that folder will make sence to me. Now keep in mind that I am a house wife and know nothing about anything youwould find in the hardeware dept, I clean house, clean babies and crochet and for some reason I was bitten by the wood working bug and now I am obsessed, for a 25 year old woman, I have some of the strangest hobbies, lol. Anyway, here are my questions...
What is PUNKY wood? How does it happen,at what point can youtell(on the tree, after its cut, after its turned?), etc....
What is epoxy and DNA? Where do you get it? What else is it used for.
I dont know how wood dye works yet, but could you add the dye to this mixture since its soaking through toe wood anyway and get kind of a marbeled affect?

Thats all for now I think...Thanks for letting me air my questions
huggs
Val

I think that last question is very much worth asking. I don't have an answer though. I think there are powdered dyes that may dissolve in the mix and be carried through to the wood. But how deep it would penetrate would be a question.

Some of these fellows that are knowledgable in finishing give this some thought and post a reply.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Yes, you can add dye to the epoxy and it works quite well. I have used liquid Transtint and had good results. I will try to post a picture later this evening.

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Curtis,

My experience with real maple syrup is that it is thin like water. Is that how thin this mixture should be?

Stoppy

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Jim,

I make it a little thicker than water. Make it too thin and it tends to not harden up properly, maybe because there is so much solvent. When I do my review of various different products, I will be sure to measure the mixing ratios and include that.

[Jim Becker]

I think the form is great, Curtis. It's simplicity highlights the beautiful material just wonderfully! And thanks for the detailed commentary on the methods, too.

[Gary DeWitt]

This thread brings to mind hearing about using epoxy as a finish. I could never picture how to apply that thick epoxy and make it look good, but I have been looking for a more water impervious finish for items that will be washed frequently, and for flower pots that will be continously damp (not full of water). Could this be it? Do any of you use epoxy as a finish and, if so, what's your technique and recipe?
Thanks in advance for the help.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Gary,

I have also used epoxy as a finish a number of times. What I do is coat the piece with epoxy and let it firm up just a little. The hold a cloth rag with one end in each hand (hild it tight!) and run the lathe at high speed. Use the rag like if you were buffing out a friction finish. At first it will be very grabby and may rip the rag out of your hand but once you get a little off, it will buff out silky smooth. The heat from the rag will also cause it to set quickly. It will be a mostly satin finish but now that I have a Beall system, I will try that and see if it will shine up better.