Looking for a shoulder plane

[Jeff Horton]

In the market for a shoulder/cabinet makers plane. Along the lines of a Stanley #90's planes. I need a user, not a pristine collectors plane. If you know of one I would appreciate the lead.

[Mike Henderson]

Try the Lee Valley medium shoulder plane. If you get a Stanley 90 series plane and tune it to perfection, the Lee Valley will be better, maybe even right out of the box.

Mike

[Charlie Mastro]

I posted this once before but my favorite shoulder plane is of course a scewed Japanese shoulder plane. I find the scewed plade helps when cutting croos grain on tenons.




Chuck

[Jeff Horton]

I like that Charlie, just to wide for what I will be doing. I find I skew my block plane a lot when I use it.

I am sure Lee Valley planes are great but I don't have a balance on my credit card and would rather keep it that way. Thats why I am looking for a old one and will just tune it up. I am sure it will work just fine.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I posted this once before but my favorite shoulder plane is of course a scewed Japanese shoulder plane. I find the scewed plade helps when cutting croos grain on tenons.

I take it you have left and right handed versions, since using just the one will often cause spelching on the tenon edge you're planing toward.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

<I>I take it you have left and right handed versions, since using just the one will often cause spelching on the tenon edge you're planing toward.</I>

Pam

You'll have to explain that to me. For tenon faces I find the Stanley #140 is sufficient. This is a right-handed skew plane. I plane on one side, then turn the board over and plane on the other side. I was discussing a similar point on WC earlier: http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/handtools.pl?noframes;read=85024

<center><div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Picture6.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Jeff

For tenon shoulders, I have an old 1-1/4" infill that works extremely well. Otherwise the LV Medium is preferred over the HNT Gordon 3/4" and Stanley #92 for ergonomics. All these shoulder planes can be tuned to work very well, but the LV is just nicer to use. See my review at http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/veritasshoulderplane.htm

<center><div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Shoulderplanes.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charlie Mastro]

I take it you have left and right handed versions, since using just the one will often cause spelching on the tenon edge you're planing toward.

Pam

I couldn't find "spelching" in "The New Lexicon Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary but I guess it means tearout.
No I don't have both left and right, only the one shown. I do as Derek stated and just flip the tenon over. I also am working to a scribed line and that seems to keep me from spelching.:rolleyes:

Charlie

[Mark Singer]

The Lee Valley medium is really good! The LN 73 like the older Record are big....but good at certain things..

[Bob Smalser]

If you don't have the dough for a new L/V, then keep looking for Stanleys, whose compactness I much prefer anyway.

You can still find user 92's and 93's in the 60-dollar range. I'd insist on a picture of the mouth....and cracks in the rails can be difficult to fix, but cracks in the top screw mount aren't difficult.

If you can find a Sweetheart model in good condition, you won't find a handler shoulder plane requiring only sharpening to put back into service. I'd avoid the Made-In-England models.

[Pam Niedermayer]

You'll have to explain that to me. For tenon faces I find the Stanley #140 is sufficient. This is a right-handed skew plane. I plane on one side, then turn the board over and plane on the other side. I was discussing a similar point on WC earlier: http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/handtools.pl?noframes;read=85024
...

Yeah, and I didn't understand it there either. :)

Seriously, Derek and Charlie, let's say you need to reduce a tenon by 1/8"; so you decide to take off 1/16" from each side of the tenon. If you start on the right side and plane to the left with a rh 140, you risk gettin spelch on the left side. It doesn't help to turn the tenon over or flip it, since at that point you wouldn't have taken the 1/16" off the left side yet. I suspect we're talking at cross puposes here, but danged if I can figure how flipping the tenon helps anything.

Of course, this has nothing to do with shoulder planes, although you could use a huge shoulder plane to diminish the tenon.

Pam

[Mike Wenzloff]

Thicknessing tenons can be done in a variety of ways.

But I still don't find spelching a problem. In really splintery wood I'll nip the far edge with a sharp chisel, same as when doing the end grain. Flip and do the same process.

But most of the time I just rasp them with the Aurious. Smooth and fast:

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/tenon.jpg

On the left, a tenon as sawn. On the right, after rasping to thickness.

The next picture shows the condition of the left edge--which would have the spelch--with just a little spelching.

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/tenon_0001.jpg

Take care, Mike

[john mclane]

I had to google spleching to find a definition; only 10 entries: Definition: planing off the side of end grain and ripping a sliver or chunk off the end cause the grain separates.

[Derek Cohen]

<I>let's say you need to reduce a tenon by 1/8"; so you decide to take off 1/16" from each side of the tenon.</I>

Pam

In most cases I cut as close to the line as possible, then use the #140 to just fine tune. However, there are indeed times when the tenon board is too narrow to saw and the tenon has to be shaped with a plane. This was the case in my recent review of the Veritas Router Plane (of course - I was trying to demonstrate just this situation! :) ).

The following are the pictures from the review, cobbled together here for quick illustration.

<center><div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Morticingcombo.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

I have used the #140 to reduce the waste, but the router plane then does a good job of making sure the faces are parallel. They could be finished with the #140.

Tear out is not important, and spelching is minimized if you come in from the outside, rather than plane from the inside outwards (with the router plane).

Here was the completed joint (My apologies for the poor picture (quickly blown up from the small original):

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/CompleteMT2.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /> </center>

(The full review can be found at http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVRouterPlane/index.asp)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Lloyd Robins]

Mike, which Aurious do you use? Thanks.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Loyd,

I've got a bunch. It's a kind of disease <g>.

The ones I tend to use most are:

AU-6-175-13
AU-6-150-15
AU-6-200-10
AU-8-200-9
AU-8-200-11

You can look them up on the Best Things web site, which is where I purchased the last ones.

As to which I used on the tenon above, I have no idea. I tend to just scan and grab any more and without looking on them, I cannot tell which number is which.

I do the same working on saw handles. I have a few set out before me, from coarse to fine and kinda just feel them. Carefully feel them as they are a little sharp.

Part of the number has to do with the radius, part the length and the third portion the coarseness. But again, I tend to forget which is which. I rely on pestering Lee Richmond at The Best Things. He's very helpful. I think he still has the best prices for them as well.

The webpage has better descriptions as to the radius etc.:
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/auriou_rasps.htm

Take care, Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

...In most cases I cut as close to the line as possible, then use the #140 to just fine tune. However, there are indeed times when the tenon board is too narrow to saw and the tenon has to be shaped with a plane. This was the case in my recent review of the Veritas Router Plane (of course - I was trying to demonstrate just this situation! :) )....

OK, but let's retrace how this thread has gone. Jeff Horton asked about shoulder planes. Charlie responded with his skewed rebate recommendation at which point I responded that if one used a skewed rebate plane for this job one needed two skewed rebate planes to avoid spelching. I know this is correct at least some of the time, based on personal experience.

Then you responded that the rh 140 was all you needed. At that point I realized we were all speaking past each other, so I added a specific situation with numbers so we could all translate and respond to each other. Then you started talking about the Veritas router (George Huron uses a router in this situation, too) for trimming tenons. I don't much like this option, way too fussy, but it does work without spelch because you can come in from both sides.

And still poor Jeff hasn't gotten much of a response on which shoulder plane he should get. :) Jeff, I use two all the time: the LN 073 (large shoulder plane 1-1/4") and the LN small 1/2" shoulder plane. I also have the 3/4" HNT Gordon shoulder which works fine, but I find that size is not useful for my work so far. If I still needed one, I'd take a real strong look at the LV variety, probably buy one of those. The 073 is large enough that I often use it for trimming tenons.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

<I>OK, but let's retrace how this thread has gone. Jeff Horton asked about shoulder planes. Charlie responded with his skewed rebate recommendation at which point I responded that if one used a skewed rebate plane for this job one needed two skewed rebate planes to avoid spelching. I know this is correct at least some of the time, based on personal experience.

Then you responded that the rh 140 was all you needed. At that point I realized we were all speaking past each other</I>

Actually Pam, I answered <I>your</I> comment about spelching (using a rebate plane), <I>then</I> returned the topic to the original question raised by Jeff about shoulder planes. The router plane segment was again in reply to a question <I> you </I> raised about trimming tenons. (Incidentally, I agree, the router plane is too fussy. I prefer my #140. Mike's Aurious' look good, but I think I lack the skill to get an even and parallel shape with one).

Regards from Perth

Derek