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Eddie Watkins
02-24-2006, 10:30 AM
I am located in an area within city limits that is far enough out that the cable company does not provide service and the closest phone exchange is about 10 miles away which means the line quality is not acceptable for DSL. I have been researching alternatives to a 56k dial-up modem that connects at about 28k, again due to line quality. So far WiFi or WiMax has not made it to my area. I heard a commercial yesterday about a new satellite service called Wild Blue that looks like it may be somewhat better with transmission speeds around 512k to 1mg on downloads and 128k to 512k for uploads. Has anybody tried this service? If so, what are you're thoughts about it? Do you know of any other alternatives? I have satellite TV and it seems to work fairly well unless we have really bad weather. I suspect I may have the same problem with an internet connection. I think I could live with that easier than the dial-up connection.

Eddie

Dennis Peacock
02-24-2006, 10:47 AM
Eddie,

A guy I work with has DirectWay by Direct TV. He really likes it a lot as he was on slow dialup like you are now. With any type service except for microwave, your going to have problem with signal during bad weather. I'm on Direct TV and my ISP is by SBC on DSL. If the loss of signal during bad weather is any indication? You wouldn't be out of server very much at all.

Given time, you will eventually be "reached" by a DSL or Cable provider for your ISP. It's taken them 6 years to get here where I am.:D

Eddie Watkins
02-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Thanks Dennis. I checked with SBC and my area isn't even on their planning board, yet so it will be a while. I would prefer to go with DSL both for reliability and cost but I am really sick of dial-up so i'm looking at any options that will improve my conectivity. Pictures and system downloads/ upgrades are really a pain.

Thanks again
Eddie

Ken Garlock
02-24-2006, 11:44 AM
Hi Eddie. I have been considering Wild Blue for several years since it was just a dream. Support for it is just beginning to exist in my area, but I have not made a move. As I understand, you can hit the WB sat. with an antenna upgrade to the Dish Network antenna.

For me another consideration is the installation of the equipment. I went to great lengths to install a patch panel and data distribution system when we built our home. I tried to get the Dish local installer to put the dish where I wanted it, but they wanted to install it on the south wall of the house. I told them it was my way or the highway, they got in their truck and left. I bought some angle iron and some lag bolts and mounted the dish on the pseudo chimney in the "v" between the roof and the chimney. Then I called a different company to come and point the dish. So much for the free setup from the Dish people.:(

I would expect the rain downtime to increase due to WB operating at 24GHz whereas Dish and DirecTv operate in the 12-14 GHz band. The higher you go in frequency, the more susceptible you are to atmospheric interference/rain. OTOH, the military has been using the 20+ GHz frequencies for some time.
Perhaps some diplomaed EE can elaborate on this.:rolleyes:

Keep us posted on your decision.

Chris Padilla
02-25-2006, 3:54 AM
Perhaps some diplomaed EE can elaborate on this.:rolleyes:

Well, not this one, as most of my "upper GHz" is travelling on waveguides known as striplines surrounded by FR-4.... :p

Jim O'Dell
02-25-2006, 11:08 AM
Eddie, juist curious...what part of the City are you in?? We have lots of friends and family in the area. My wife and I are originally from Ada. Don't have any answers for you, but if I new what part of the City you were in, I have a BIL in the communications business there lives in Yukon, and a friend that is an engineer for KATT radio that lives down on east 135th (I think) out in the boonies...they might have some ideas for you that would help. Jim.

Jim Poelstra
02-25-2006, 12:09 PM
Pictures and system downloads/ upgrades are really a pain.
And they still will be on satellite......

With Direcway you will not be able to download a complete upgrade to windows in one setting. They have a thing called FAP (fair access policy) that will kick in at about 160MB and will slow you down to less than modem speeds for up to 12 hours.

Starband, from what I understand is doing the same thing, but not quite as drastic.

WildBlue, I have know idea, but being new they probably will allow some slack until they get their customer base higher.

I had Starband for about 2.5 years, before I got DSL. I really liked it. Was fairly reliable except in real severe weather. It did beat the heck out of dialup. When I had it though, there was no restriction on downloading at all. Uploading was another story.... never was real good.

As with any satellite Company the up front cost to set up is a bugger... $400 to $500. But their monthly fees are comparable now to most other Internet providers.

Ken Massingale
02-25-2006, 12:34 PM
Eddie,
We have had Wildblue since last September. Unlike DirecWay, there is no limit on downloads per session. Like DW there is a FAP (Fair Access Policy).
It is a rolling 30 day total of bandwidth usage. The download bandwidth in the FAP is 7.5 GB for the Value package to 17 GB for the Pro package. I download quite a bit and haven't approached the FAP. If you hit it, your speed is degraded, not turned off. They offer 3 packages, a 512, 1 MB and 1.5 MB speeds. Overall I have been pleased with it. There is an occassional blip when a heavy rain is approaching, but strangely enough, when the rain is overhead, the connection is fine. Haven't had any snow here in S.C. this year, but users in snowy areas don't seem to be having problems.
I have the 1.5 MB package and almost always get around 200 kB/s down and 27 kB/s up.
Sometimes during peak hours the connection will slow down a tad but not much. Below is a typical download test from testmy.net.
Wildblue.com has all the details on packages and pricing.
HTH,
ken

:::.. Download Stats ..:::
Connection is:: 1561 Kbps about 1.6 Mbps (tested with 2992 kB)
Download Speed is:: 191 kB/s
Tested From:: http://testmy.net (server1)
Test Time:: Sat Feb 25 12:18:19 EST 2006
Bottom Line:: 28X faster than 56K 1MB download in 5.36 sec
Diagnosis: Awesome! 20% + : 39 % faster than the average for host (wildblue.net)
Validation Link:: http://testmy.net/stats/id-AS0JL3ZOW

Eddie Watkins
02-25-2006, 9:21 PM
Jim, I live in far SE OKC about 1 mile east of Draper Lake on Anderson Road in Cleveland County. It is on the other side of the city from Yukon but it is only about 60 miles from Ada, I've been to Bob's Barbeque many times. :D
Ken and Jim, thanks for the specific data. I think I am going to try it. I did see where they do have the FAP. I was wondering how much impact that would mean. I did have a guy come by today and was offering to give me free access via WiFi to a T1 line if I would let him put up a tower in my yard. Problem is a T1 line is only 156kbps and I'm not sure that would be much improvement over a dial-up with an accelerator. You gave me the kind of information I was looking for. Hopefully, in a year or so we will have a better option.
Thanks,
Eddie

Frank Hagan
02-25-2006, 11:08 PM
I would take the deal on the T-1! Its rated at 1,544-kbps, and we run our office internet access on one for 16 people. Its as fast or faster than DSL or cable modem service (which is mostly 768-kbps).

Eddie Watkins
02-26-2006, 12:41 AM
I would take the deal on the T-1! Its rated at 1,544-kbps, and we run our office internet access on one for 16 people. Its as fast or faster than DSL or cable modem service (which is mostly 768-kbps).

You're right Frank. I was off be a factor of 10!:o That sure makes a big difference. I'll have to see what type of tower he is talking about and I do know he ispllaning on selling other people access but it still could be a good deal.

Ernie Nyvall
02-26-2006, 8:12 AM
Satellite must be different for different areas because out here it is just too high at $600 to start and nearly $100/month. I guess if I needed it for business, but I use it mainly for findig things I need to purchase. Right now I'm at 38k and that varies from about 28k to 41k. It's slow, but still a lot faster and cheaper at $10/month than calling or say driving from car dealer to car dealer to see what they have. :rolleyes:

Ernie

Jim Becker
02-26-2006, 11:32 AM
(RE: A T1) Its as fast or faster than DSL or cable modem service (which is mostly 768-kbps).
In a large number of geographies, there are major speed-wars going on. DSL is now typically 3mbps down and cable is often 3-6mpbs down. In some areas, it's faster. (And Verizon's FIOS fiber to the prem, where available, is 5mbps/2mbps at the lowest tier with many folks opting for 15mbps/2mbps. They also offer 30mbps/5mbps service)

My current Verizon DSL service is 3mbps/768kbps...for $34 a month...much less money than Comcast. Once the fiber is available, the 15/2 will be about ten bucks more a month. Competition is a wonderful thing!

But I agree, the OP is really lucky to have the opportunity to latch on to that T1 connection as it's much better than anything he can buy by land or sat, IMHO!

Frank Hagan
02-26-2006, 1:56 PM
In a large number of geographies, there are major speed-wars going on. DSL is now typically 3mbps down and cable is often 3-6mpbs down. In some areas, it's faster. (And Verizon's FIOS fiber to the prem, where available, is 5mbps/2mbps at the lowest tier with many folks opting for 15mbps/2mbps. They also offer 30mbps/5mbps service)

My current Verizon DSL service is 3mbps/768kbps...for $34 a month...much less money than Comcast. Once the fiber is available, the 15/2 will be about ten bucks more a month. Competition is a wonderful thing!

But I agree, the OP is really lucky to have the opportunity to latch on to that T1 connection as it's much better than anything he can buy by land or sat, IMHO!

I went and did a speed test on my cable modem after writing that, and my "guaranteed 768kbps" connection yielded 4,586kbps down and 431kbps up on that test. But I suspect that was simply because there was little traffic on my node of the cable system at the time.

I don't do a lot of stuff really requiring a lot of bandwidth, like gaming or huge downloads, so I rarely notice when the line is slower.

Jim Becker
02-26-2006, 2:55 PM
Frank, I get about 2.83 mbps down and 716 kbps up consistently on my 3 mbps/731 kbps DLS as checked by the VisualWare site (http://sawsndust.com/a-miterstation.htm). It's been reliable enough that I now use a physical IP phone with an internal VPN client connected to my PBX way out in Colorado here in my PA "virtual" office. (With no quality of service configured in my Juniper router even...) But I can't wait for the fiber...conduit is on the poles, so it's only a mater of months...I hope! :)

Frank Hagan
02-27-2006, 12:27 AM
Frank, I get about 2.83 mbps down and 716 kbps up consistently on my 3 mbps/731 kbps DLS as checked by the VisualWare site (http://sawsndust.com/a-miterstation.htm). It's been reliable enough that I now use a physical IP phone with an internal VPN client connected to my PBX way out in Colorado here in my PA "virtual" office. (With no quality of service configured in my Juniper router even...) But I can't wait for the fiber...conduit is on the poles, so it's only a mater of months...I hope! :)

I keep hoping for the same thing here in Oxnard ... Camarillo, a neighboring city, is getting the FIOS rollout now, and they were originally planning to roll it out across the Verizon areas of Ventura County in 2005. But they are now about 2 years behind, or so I've heard.

Until then I'll keep my cable modem ... its the only game in town for me, as DSL doesn't reach where I'm at, and the wireless services are still pretty pricey.

Matt Meiser
02-27-2006, 8:00 AM
I have had Direcway for a little over 2 years now. Before that we lived in an area that had broadband. I tell everyone that they should change their slogan to "Hey, its better than dialup!" because it is true. It is pretty fast for general browsing and downloading. Some things, like online gaming don't work because of the latency. Our old Microsoft VPN client didn't work at all, but our new Cisco VPN client works, just kind of slow. I've only hit FAP a couple times, mostly trying to download CD images from Microsoft for work. I run my updates on 3 computers automatically and they are mostly using bandwidth late at night. Weather affects Direcway more than DirecTV. We very rarely loose DirecTV in bad weather, but if there's a storm or fairly heavy snow we loose Direcway. Its also more sensitive to snow and ice buildup on the dish itself. We have had some problems that the installer says are related to the fact that it was installed using the roof bracket. He says that they try to always use a pole in the ground now because the roof bracket holds water in the tubing which causes the adjustments to get out of wack during freeze-thaw cycles.

The initial outlay is expensive--$600 either at once or over the 1st year. There is used equipment on Ebay, but I don't know what the support for used equipment is. From what I read, by law it has to be professionally installed. Something about being licensed to install satellite transmission equipment. It is also expensive per month at about $60/mo for the basic service. We knew all this going in and planned as part of buying our current house.

We have Verizon and are in an island in the middle of SBC territory. Their attitude seems to be that they could care less about our area, based on discussions I had with them about problems with our phone line last year. I expect we'll be about the last place on earth to get FIOS from Verizon. Hopefully one of the cable providers will come by before then and offer phone/TV/Internet.

One other option we may soon get is WiFi and I'll go for that if we do.

Eddie Watkins
02-27-2006, 2:16 PM
Listening to you folks talking about multi-mbps line speed is cruel and unusual punishment for those of us that barely exceeds the speed of morse code. ;)
Mark,
The cost on Wild Blue satellite is about $380 + tax and the cheapest service is $49.95 + tax + $7.95 if you want dial-up capability as an alternativ/backup. I am probably going to wait to see if the guy wants to put up the tower. As I understand it, he is a day trader that is paying over a $1,000 a month for the T1 line and is looking to share some of the cost by selling access to the line. I'm not sure about his expertise in setting the system up and maintaining it so there are lots of questions still. All the answers have been very helpful in putting together a basic picture of where the technology is right now and where it may be headed. I'll keep you posted on how things work out.
Thanks,
Eddie

Frank Guerin
02-27-2006, 7:23 PM
Eddie Watkins wrote


"I did have a guy come by today and was offering to give me free access via WiFi to a T1 line if I would let him put up a tower in my yard".

Usuall disclaimer. I don't know nothing but I have read (where ?) on a couple of occasions that there were those thet were heavily compensated for allowing towers on there property. Free sevice and money.

Matt Meiser
02-27-2006, 8:14 PM
Usuall disclaimer. I don't know nothing but I have read (where ?) on a couple of occasions that there were those thet were heavily compensated for allowing towers on there property. Free sevice and money.

A friend in the WiFi business in Indiana told me that free service is the typical compensation in that business. Cell towers are another story. I read that they pay handsomly.