Sanding and LOML

[Tom Jones III]

Funny that someone else should post a sanding comment today. LOML insists on doing the sanding on all my projects because she is usually the one who puts on the finish. She does a great job and I'm not complaining about having someone else do the sanding! The only problem ... she takes forever. She insists that she sands faster by hand than any handheld sander (other than a belt sander with 60 grit). She also insists that we do not buy a ROS because they make horrible swirl marks that she will have to sand away. The big problem is that neither one of us have ever used an ROS so I don't feel comfortable in "discussing" the point with SWMBO.

1. Can you go from ROS straight to a stain or BLO? or do you have to sand out by hand the marks from the ROS? I'm specifically referring to your typical chest of drawers, end table, etc. made out of walnut, mahogany or oak, nothing fancy or complicated.

2. Is a ROS faster than hand sanding?

3. What would be the normal sanding protocol? Belt sander if there is a need below 150 grit, then ROS through 220?

4. If questions #1 and #2 are true, is it a special kind of sander you are talking about or just a porter cable/dewalt/festool/etc. ROS?

The upside to our problem is that it really keeps me focused on better craftsmanship so that, if I am using good wood and paying attention, we can often take a surface right off the tool and do almost no sanding. It has forced me to learn a lot that I may never have learned if we had a stable of power sanders. The problem is when the wood is troublesome or I'm not being careful.

[Jim Becker]

I go right from the ROS to dye and finish. They key to avoiding swirl marks is to clean the surfaces between grits and use fresh abrasive...I mentioned that in the other thread in detail. Swirl marks are caused when "something larger" than the grit you are using gets between the paper and the workpiece or when the paper is worn or has "caramelized cake" toward the center of the disk. (Another reason I use Festool sanders now...that last thing is eliminated)

[Cecil Arnold]

Tom, what Jim said. About the best sander around is the Festool, IMHO, but I have and use the PC with great results. The PC can be hooked up to a shop vacuum and reduce the likelihood of grit cross contamination, but you still need to wipe down between grits. There is some discussion regarding the newer PC ROS as some contend that their QC has slipped so you may want to shop around if you consider buying one. Since you said LOYL is prone to getting the "best" tool for the job, I think she would consider Festool if you can convince her that a ROS fits the bill. Additionally, you can get 60-80 gr paper for most ROS and go all the way to 1200 if need be. There are also buffing bonnets for wax application. Get her a ROS and once she uses it she will never go back.

[Dennis Peacock]

Tom,

Do her a favor.....get a Festool ES125 ROS. It's a 5" ros, adjustable sanding rate and also get either a Fein or Festool Vac and the hose from Festool. Once you sand with this setup? You'll be amazed at:
1. How much vibration there is NOT.
2. How much dust there is NOT.
3. How much noise there is NOT.
4. How much LONGER your sanding disks will last.
5. How much better your finish will be right after sanding with the ROS.
6. How much dust you do NOT have to clean up.
7. How much your hands are NOT vibrating even after the sander is turned off.

Convinced yet? I wasn't until I stepped over the line and bought my first Festool. I now have three Festool tool in my shop, and one day, I'll own more.:rolleyes: :D

[Bruce Volden]

Lets not forget that there is also a great difference in sandpapaer quality / uniformity! I always had swirl marks using BORG papers no matter how I tried not to. While attending a WW show several yrs. ago I was given some paper samples to try. Now, like Jim, I go right to finishing!!


Bruce

[Maurice Metzger]

I love my wife dearly, but her contribution to my woodworking is an occasional warning of "you could put someone's eye out with that!" I'll show her this thread and tell her "the family that sands together stays together"...

- Maurice

[Andrew Shaber]

This reminds me of the thread about spouse gloat. I'm just happy when my wife will look at my projects before they're done.

[Gary Herrmann]

My wife has helped me finish a couple times, but no sanding or anything else. I think you should keep her. ;)

[Brian Parker]

While I don't have a wife, I do have a 5" ROS which helps me alot. I don't have the particular model # handy (I'm at work) but its a Makita 5" VS 8 hole hook and loop disc system. I have used it on all types of projects and even gone as fine as 320 grit with it and haven't had any problems with material buildup or anything else. I've had it a good 2 years and paid somewhere around $100 for it if memory serves me right.

[Jim Becker]

While I don't have a wife, I do have a 5" ROS which helps me alot.
Scary thought, Brian... :D Did you need a pre-nuptual?

[Brian Parker]

Na no pre-nup needed. Its a one time deal, I pay for it once, clean it up and put it away. It don't have needs, want to sit and talk or complain. When it decides to break I can either choose to fix it or replace it, and if I replace it I don't think this one will have any hard feelings and ask why I did that to it. :rolleyes:


Scary thought, Brian... :D Did you need a pre-nuptual?

[Steven Wilson]

Besides quality sandpaper and a decent ROS - DON'T PUT TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE SANDER, or you will get swirl marks. Let the weight of the sander do the work and move the sander slowly (1in/sec). Having said that, I still use a cork block and sandpaper for handsanding items when needed (details, coves, corners, etc) and often use a razor or card scraper for taking care of runs, drips, leveling, or surface prep. For most finish sanding work I use a Festool 150/3 and RS 400 sanders with a CT22 vac - great finish, no dust, very little hand vibration.

[Lee DeRaud]

Na no pre-nup needed. Its a one time deal, I pay for it once, clean it up and put it away. It don't have needs, want to sit and talk or complain. When it decides to break I can either choose to fix it or replace it, and if I replace it I don't think this one will have any hard feelings and ask why I did that to it. :rolleyes:And it won't complain if you resort to hand-sanding in emergencies or for those hard-to-reach spots.:D :cool:

[Vaughn McMillan]

...
1. Can you go from ROS straight to a stain or BLO? or do you have to sand out by hand the marks from the ROS?...
In my (comparatively limited) experience, yes.

...
2. Is a ROS faster than hand sanding?...

Much, much faster.

...
3. What would be the normal sanding protocol? Belt sander if there is a need below 150 grit, then ROS through 220?...

For me, in general, yes. In some cases I start with 60 grit on the ROS, depending on the amount of material I need to remove. The belt sander is faster, but the dust collection on my ROS actually works, whereas on my belt sander it doesn't.

...
4. If questions #1 and #2 are true, is it a special kind of sander you are talking about or just a porter cable/dewalt/festool/etc. ROS?...

I've got an inexpensive 5" Ryobi, that has been one of the best $50 I've spent for my shop. I've NEVER had problems with swirl marks, it's relatively quiet, little vibration, and has effective DC (with a shop vac). Festool is often recommended, and it's surely great, but it's not in my hobbyist budget right now, so I'll stay with my little Ryobi. I plan to upgrade at some point, but I'll be looking hard at the 6" Ridgid (made by Metabo), since it's still within the realm of my spending possibilities.

- Vaughn

[Vaughn McMillan]

And it won't complain if you resort to hand-sanding in emergencies or for those hard-to-reach spots.:D :cool:
Lee, that just might be sharing more personal information than we really need. This is a family forum, after all. :eek: :D :p

- Vaughn

[John Buzzurro]

I go straight from ROS to finishing. I make sure to step through all the grits gradually - e.g., 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220. As mentioned before, wipe off the dust good between grits.

[Tom Jones III]

Update - I made a unilateral decision and as we were driving home from working on a habitat house we stopped by the borg and got an ROS. She loves it. I hooked it up to the cyclone and even though it doesn't have the SP of a shop vac it still has terrific dust collection. The sanding is fast and perfect. She absolutely loves the quality of the finish, the DC, and how easy it is on her hands. In fact, now I'm in trouble for not getting one of these sooner!!! Thanks for all the help.

[Garry Smith]

Tom, I have good luck with ROS but I do a quick hand sanding afterwords using the next finer grit. It's quick and painless.
Garry