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Bill Grumbine
02-22-2006, 1:33 PM
Greetings all

I am looking for some information here that I can't seem to find in a place you might expect - like the airline! I am scheduled to do a two day demo in LaCrosse WI in April. I am going to have to fly to do this, since I do not have the luxury of time for driving out or even taking the train. I am not afraid to fly. While I have not done a lot of it, most of my flying has been in big barn like airplanes where we all wore the same clothes, and when we got where we were going, we all jumped out and ran around shouting, shooting, and throwing stuff. But things have changed a bit. The seats have gotten smaller and my seat has gotten wider since my last commercial flight in 1979.

My question is this. What is the likelihood of me fitting into a regular sized airplane seat? I do not need to be comfortable (like that would ever happen on an airplane!) but I do need to be able to physically fit into whatever chair they have for me. I really do not like the idea of having to buy two seats, although I would not mind annoying some tofu eating PETA person if I had to. The lady at the airline thought I might be better off flying out of Philly instead of Allentown since they had bigger planes, but had no objective data of any sort for me.

I have already decided to mail my tools and stuff out in a box, since I am going to have to change planes at least once, and probably twice, since you can't get there from here. I did get that much good advice from the nice lady at the airline counter (after I talked to the foreigner on the other side of the planet). So, if anyone here has some constructive info to offer, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Bill

Andy Hoyt
02-22-2006, 1:35 PM
Take the train and the time to do so. It's a hoot.

Bill Grumbine
02-22-2006, 1:38 PM
I looked at the train schedule from here to there Andy, and as much as I would like to, it is a two day trip with about 10 changes each way! :eek:

Bill

Ray Dockrey
02-22-2006, 1:40 PM
Bill,

I am 5" 10" and I was right at 335lbs when I flew Southwest several years ago. I had no problems sitting in the seat and did not require a seatbelt extension. The guy sitting across from me was bigger then me and he seemed to fit okay but he did seem a little snug. He did require a seat belt extension but that was handled very professional by the flight attendant. Good Luck.

Pete Simmons
02-22-2006, 1:40 PM
How many hour drive?

Airline will take you most of the day. Miss one connection and it would have been faster walking.


I am < 6 foot and around 200 lbs and I do NOT like the seating on planes. Do not let the lady fool you with bigger planes. All the commerical planes have a few seat sizes - small , tight and smaller.

First class seats on the big planes are good size but the small plane you would have for part of your trip most likely will not even have first class. Just a lot of small seats crammed into a small space.

DRIVE!!

Andy Hoyt
02-22-2006, 1:55 PM
1,000 miles - 14 hours - drive.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=Kutztown,+pa&daddr=La+Crosse,+WI&ll=42.261049,-83.496094&spn=16.79923,29.970703

Think of all the road food you can eat!

Tyler Howell
02-22-2006, 2:39 PM
Give me a time and date Bill LSE is one of my airports. I'd love to greet you there.
From one big guy to another :o .......It won't be comfortable but they have a seat belt extension (just ask) that will hold you in place.
Shoot for 1st class if you can.

Brett Baldwin
02-22-2006, 2:52 PM
The seats on the puddle-jumpers are going to be the worst ones. They are small and uncomfortable(even for airplanes). If you can fly out on a normal size jet (727 or bigger) then you will only be generally uncomfortable. This means going to the major airport near you though so you'll have to decide if the car trip is worthwhile.

On the plane, be prepared to roll your shoulders forward and put your hands in your lap. Two big guys next to each other can do a lot of shoulder rubbing if a little compromise isn't exercised. If at all possible, I try to get an aisle seat so that at least one shoulder can be free. Also, if you get seats next to an emergency exit, they usually have extra leg room (as long as you are comfortable with the possible door opening duty). Many of the online ticketing sites will allow you to choose your seat.

Another travel trick, if you get a seat toward the back of the plane you will generally board first and have to wait to get off, BUT! you also have the best opportunity to get your carry-on in a convenient overhead bin. If you aren't going to carry on anything significant, then get a seat at the front and you will be seated for the shortest time possible.

Hope that helps..

Ken Fitzgerald
02-22-2006, 3:10 PM
Bill..I'm a fairly large man. I'd think about going 1st class if I were you. You get a bigger seat and it might not cost as much as 2 seats in the rear of the plane.

George Morris
02-22-2006, 3:23 PM
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off"></TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
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One last thing if you travel out of Philladelphia my house is 15 minutes from the airport we have 3 empty bedrooms ,You are welcome to stay if it works for you. Be warned I have one wife and 2 dogs. E mail if you would like George.

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Jim Becker
02-22-2006, 3:27 PM
Bill, you'll probably be fine. I do suggest you avoid the bulkhead seats as many of them have fixed arm rests. On most planes (mainline and RJs), the armrests on the rest of the seats will usually fold up out of the way which can give a little more "fanny" room, even if you have a seat-mate. (Ask first if so... ;) ) You might also try to schedule on flights that are less crowded to be able to take advantage of seating flexibility....once the doors are about to be closed, you then have the option of moving if that provides more comfort. (Where you fly out of and your routing will make a difference in that respect) Be sure to request a seat-belt extension either in advance or as you board the plane if you need one.

Shipping your tools, etc., is a good idea...they will have to be checked anyway due to security regulations and you can be better assured of them being "with you" for your work if they arrive separately. ;) (I hate checking luggage and avoid it as much as possible)

Bill Grumbine
02-22-2006, 4:00 PM
Thanks for all the responses guys!

Pete and Andy, I am looking at the drive option, as I love to drive, but it would be at least as expensive, even a little more so, and it would mean four days of hard driving on top of two full days of demonstrating. That makes for a looong week.

Tyler, I would love to meet you! I will be sure to PM you with the details as soon as I have them. There is a chance I may end up flying into Minneapolis. How does that one relate to you? As far as first class is concerned, I don't think that is going to be available on any of the planes I might be taking, at least not the one from ABE. Perhaps if I fly out of PHL that may be an option.

Brett, thanks for the seat info. I will check it out.

Ken, I am beyond fairly large! I am 6'2" and 400 even, and people often ask me if I played linebacker for any pro teams in the past.

George, thanks for the offer, but if I go from Philly, it is only about 90 minutes on a good day (like there are any of them on the Blue Rt!).

Jim, I talked with the lady about less crowded flights, but she really hedged on that. I would be glad to leave out of ABE at 4:00 AM if they could get me a less crowded flight!

Thanks again everyone! I will be sure to report on my adventures as they develop.

Bill

Eddie Watkins
02-22-2006, 4:29 PM
Bill, I accuse LOML of hanging out with me because I make her look thin.:o SHe married a hunk and now I'm a chunk.:D I am 5'10" and weigh 270# and I can fit in the coach seats snugly without a seatbelt extension (sz 42 waist). I always try to get in an aisle seat so I can lean out into the aisle do provide some relief for everybody on the row. Also, try to get a seat toward the back, the noise is worse so, usually, if there are any empty seats they will be toward the rear and usually middle seats. If you have an aisle seat and get lucky with an empty middle seat you'll be fine. Having said that I will fit, I would sure drive if time allowed. As a matter of fact, I do drive if at all possible.

Tyler Howell
02-22-2006, 5:08 PM
MSP is 12 minutes From my house LSE is about a 2.5 hour drive all Freeway or 3 if you travel along the mighty Mississippi. Looking forward to your visit.:cool:

Bob Weisner
02-22-2006, 5:17 PM
Amtrak is more comfortable and the ride is easier. Only 3 train changes.

Jim Dunn
02-22-2006, 6:11 PM
Bill, can I tag along? I'm small enough to fit in the overhead.:)

Dave Richards
02-22-2006, 6:17 PM
Tyler, maybe I can join you. You'd have to go right by and I'd love a chance to meet Bill.

Bill, is the demo something open to the public?

Cecil Arnold
02-22-2006, 6:39 PM
Bill, I'll second the emergency exit row seating, there is more leg room and if you can get an aisle seat that's about as good as it gets. Don't know what airline you're looking at but SWA and most other regional carriers are using 737s with high density seating. American did at one time offer additional leg room in economy, but may have gone back to the HD.

Bill Grumbine
02-23-2006, 8:38 AM
Airplane update everyone! I decided to investigate alternate travel methods. I can rent a very nice car for the ride, and drive myself. It would be two days travel each way, overnight in a flea bag along the way. Too much work.

On Andy's (and SWMBO's) recommendation, I did some more investigation of the train. After perusing their schedules a little more closely, I think this is going to be the way to go. SWMBO did me the kindness of deciphering the schedule (hey, I'm a bumpkin!). I have had a thing for trains since I have been a kid, and always wanted to take a long ride on one. This looks like it might be the opportunity. I can get there and back with either a reserved seat or a private room for very close to the same amount of money it would cost to be squashed into a tin can. The downside is that it will take longer, and I will have some unusual changing times and a long layover in Chicago, but it should give me opportunity to see lots of the countryside I have never seen, and I can relax with a book along the way instead of cursing all the morons in the left lane or having all my internal organs rearranged by the seat on the plane.

More to come as I get the info, and for those of you who have expressed interest in getting together either here in this thread or via PM or email, I will be writing as soon as I have more info for you.

Bill

Ken Fitzgerald
02-23-2006, 8:43 AM
Bill..........I don't think you'll regret the train. My ILs came out from Illinois to Spokane, WA by train a few years ago. We picked them up in Spokane and brought them to our home in Idaho. A few weeks later, they climbed back on the train rode it to Colorado via California to visit their sons in Denver. They thoroughly enjoyed traveling that way! I envision a trip acrossed lower Canada in the winter by train after I retire!

Scott Loven
02-23-2006, 10:56 AM
Bill, where/who are you doing the demo for? I only live 80 miles from La Crosse.
Scott

Tyler Howell
02-23-2006, 11:42 AM
2 days on a train? Get a "sleeper".Though you can get up and stretch. Those seats were not intended for sleeping. Especially us Full figured men:rolleyes: .
Not Slamming the competition but the system can be full of delays. Add a little wiggle room;) .

Bill Grumbine
02-23-2006, 11:47 AM
Hi guys

Scott, I will send you some info in a PM. Tyler, I will have a sleeper for overnight, and there are already some serious breaks built into the schedule! I will be sending you a PM as well, and for anyone else reading this, I am going to start a new thread with some details.

Bill

Tyler Howell
02-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Tyler, maybe I can join you. You'd have to go right by and I'd love a chance to meet Bill.

Bill, is the demo something open to the public?

Dave, Sounds like a plan.
We may have us a Creeker "git-ta-gether" a brewing.:D

Brad Schafer
02-23-2006, 9:00 PM
Bill- I don't get in here much anymore, but reading this struck a nerve with me, as I'm in a plane more often than not.

First, regional airports can kill you dollar-wise. Regionals are usually serviced by only 1 or 2 airlines (Lacrosse is American Eagle and Northwest), and have somewhat of a locked market. If you're a pleasure traveler, you'll book far enough in advance to get a decent fare. If you're a working guy, you don't have the "Southwest" factor in your favor (which is why flying ABE to LSE is $880+).

Second, regionals are often serviced by "regional" carriers. If you're lucky, you'll find someone flying an old BA-146 (top-winged 4 engine craft). If not, you'll either get a regional jet (nice but small) or a turbo-prop (small, loud, rough, nasty). I'm 6' and 175, and I find RJs and props WAY uncomfortable. I can't imagine trying to stick a Reggie White build in one of those bad boys. Frankly, I wouldn't fly coach on a 717 or smaller ... or even a 727 (unless you get a seat on the 3 seat side). The only coach you'd really be comfortable in would be a window or ailse on a 3-seat side with an empty middle.

Having said that, if you do decide to fly, you're apt to encounter less congestion seat-wise in the rear of the aircraft (because it takes longer to get off, and because it's louder). Legroom is greater in front of the wing, as the seats are positioned to favor frequent fliers (which is why the seats are also difficult to get if you're the average joe). It pays to get to the airport a little early and let the gate agent see what s/he is dealing with ... sometimes you can wrangle a re-seating and get comfortable.

You will find that prices and selection are MUCH better flying out of a hub airport. For example, if you fly out of Philadelphia to Madison, you'd still have a circa 2 hr drive to LaCrosse, but the price is $264 (less than 1/3 the price of regional to regional). LaCrosse is about halfway between Madison and Minneapolis (I would go Madison).

Generally, cheapest (and least congested) days to fly are T-W-Th; this isn't always true, but it's a good rule of thumb.

And do NOT count on 2 coach seats being more expensive than 1st. I recently priced a flight to Phoenix at $158 coach. 1st class was over $900.

Finally, if you can waste the time traveling on a train, it is SUBSTANTIALLY more comfortable than anything on any aircraft (1st class included). The normal cheap seat on a train is as big or bigger than 1st on any craft (excepting perhaps 3-class overseas configured jumbos).

So, if you travel by plane, drive a little and save a lot by going out of PHL. Check seats online before buying and get yourself in a low occupancy area. Avoid RJs and turbo-props by avoiding regional airports (like ABE and LSE).

And if you travel by train, take along something to read and relax.


b (United 100k guy)