How sharp is sharp enough?

[Jason McDonald]

I am new to turning and just got a nice set of Pinnacle HSS chisels (compared to my last ones at least). I have read up on a few different sites and books and there seems to be a huge rift in the turning world over the correct way to sharpen so I realize that I may get some conflicting answers here...

I have a craftsman wet/dry tool sharpener with what I estimate to be a 300 grit wheel ( I don't have it with me and can't find the exact one online ) as well as three diamond sharpeners: course, fine, & extra fine. For general sharpenings should I be using the grinding wheel then follow it up with the diamond honing stones or would just using the diamond honing stones suffice?

How sharp should the chisels be when I am done sharpening? I have seen some sites referencing being sharp enough to shave with... I have been turning pens lately and have split a bunch of blanks, presumably b/c my chisels are not sharp enough.

I know this is a broad set of questions - any help is appreciated.

[Chris Barton]

This is almost a metaphysical question. But, I think the reply you might get from some of the turning sages would be; when wood comes off without tearing the grain, then its sharp enough. And, you will know when it isn't sharp enough because the wood will tear or simply not cut. Also, "sharp enough" willl vary from wood to wood. For soft woods like hackberry you need more "sharpness" than with say walnut and wet wood cuts easier than dry...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jason....I just started turning. I ordered a grinder, a wolverine jig and attachments. I've tried touching up the cheap HF set given to me with a stone. It helped but as the set got duller, I could sure tell the difference. Most of this was done on the same piece of 10 year old 2x2 I've been practicing on. Your statement about dull and catching is dead on! At first, when the skew I've been using was sharper, it was a dream to use. Since it got dull it's catching no matter how I attempt to use it. My grinder is supposed to be here this week. I can't wait to sharpen those tools!

[Andy Hoyt]

Jason - it's kinda like that razor blade you use to shave with. Brand new it's a dream and a week later it's okay. At some point in time you no longer recall how long you've been using it, but you try to get more mileage out of it. Sooner or later, it's just no longer fun; you cave in and grab a fresh one.


Well, turning tools are pretty much the same. Comes with practice, experience, and a good sharpening setup so that doing so is not consider a pain.

Whenever I sense that something's not going as well as it could or should, I stop to sharpen the tool just to rule that possibility out. Sometimes it is indeed the edge, other times it's me.

[Gary Max]

I just bought a scraper made by those folks---good stuff.
You will get a kick out of this.
When I am turning for the most part I use a 6 X 80 belt sander to keep my tools sharp. I may run over to the Wolverine once ever couple of days and make sure that I am keeping the angle right. But for the most part it's just free hand.

[Charles Bjorgen]

Jason -- One of my favorite quotes is from a turner whose name I don't recall but it goes like this: " I sharpen my tools not because they're dull, but because they could be sharper."

With that same idea in mind, a local pro turner, Alan Lacer, tells us to look at the edge of your gouge/skew to detect if you can see a "glint" off the edge. If so, it's not sharp enough. A truly sharp edge is one you can't see when examining it under an incandescent (not fluorescent) light. I frequently use a hand magnifying glass to examine my edges while sharpening.




How sharp should the chisels be when I am done sharpening? I have seen some sites referencing being sharp enough to shave with... I have been turning pens lately and have split a bunch of blanks, presumably b/c my chisels are not sharp enough.

[Pat Salter]

Jason - it's kinda like that razor blade you use to shave with. Brand new it's a dream and a week later it's okay. At some point in time you no longer recall how long you've been using it, but you try to get more mileage out of it. Sooner or later, it's just no longer fun; you cave in and grab a fresh one.

Yeah, like we're going to take advice about shaving from a guy with a beard...:D

Actually, he's right Jason. when you feel like you are having to push it....sharpen it. Or, when it begins to feel like work....sharpen it. And sharpening can be as simple as touching with a hone or your friendly 6X80 belt sander;) or take it back to the grinder. My grinder sits right next to the lathe (I put it on wheels so I can take it around the shop) so it's not that big a deal to touch up on the 120 wheel.

[Cecil Arnold]

Pat, you beat me to it about Andy and the shaving metaphor. Jason, I think your turning tools can't be too sharp, however it comes down to experience as to when to sharpen. If it is hard to make a good cut, then sharpen. If that doesn't work, it's something else.

[Jason McDonald]

Thanks for all the replies.

So would using the diamond honing stones be good enough to put an edge back on or should I be using the griding wheel every time I sharpen? I have tried using just the honing stones but have not been able to tell much difference... Not sure if these are just meant to clean up the edge or to actually sharpen...

[Dennis Peacock]

Yeah, like we're going to take advice about shaving from a guy with a beard...:D


ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Jason McDonald]

Meant to reply to the whole thread before... just moving this down...

Thanks for all the replies.

So would using the diamond honing stones be good enough to put an edge back on or should I be using the griding wheel every time I sharpen? I have tried using just the honing stones but have not been able to tell much difference... Not sure if these are just meant to clean up the edge or to actually sharpen...

[Pat Salter]

My understanding (cause I don't have any yet;) ), is that honing stones are used after grinding to take the sharpening another step up and then used for touching up. If the honeing won't work, grind. But the honeing lets you take more time between grindings and still stay sharp.

[Dennis Peacock]

Jason,

Unfortunately, most of the dulled edge will require more than honing after dulling while turning. During some turning of dry wood, the edge will get what I term as a "fat dull edge"...kinda like me.:rolleyes: That edge will need some encouragement to get back to where the edge is actually back to a cutting edge. Maybe this week, I'll get some time to post about turning tool edges and how they last. I know a few turners that hit the grinder in the finish turning phase as often as every 1 minute.

[Jim Dunn]

Jason - it's kinda like that razor blade you use to shave with. Brand new it's a dream and a week later it's okay. At some point in time you no longer recall how long you've been using it, but you try to get more mileage out of it. Sooner or later, it's just no longer fun; you cave in and grab a fresh one.


Well, turning tools are pretty much the same. Comes with practice, experience, and a good sharpening setup so that doing so is not consider a pain.

Whenever I sense that something's not going as well as it could or should, I stop to sharpen the tool just to rule that possibility out. Sometimes it is indeed the edge, other times it's me.
It's his under arms and "other" areas he's talking about:eek::eek::D

Everybody is right about the tools needing to be sharper than all getout. If you can shave with em their just right;)

[Pat Salter]

If you can shave with em their just right;)

hmm, I'll have to try that with a skew. Might have better luck than I have using it on wood;)

[Bill Grumbine]

Jason, I sharpen my tools with an 80 grit wheel on a 3450 rpm grinder. I talked with Nick Cook a bit about honing my skew, and I will get around to it eventually, but most of the time my 80 grit wheel gives me a great edge. I do have some hollowing tools that I sharpen with a diamond hone, but that is because they are difficult to sharpen on the grinder, and I am also trying to extend their life for as long as possible before having to replace the tips.

As has already been mentioned, sharpening is a good idea if the tool feels like it has to be forced or pushed. I have heard people say that if you think about it, you probably need to do it. As you gain experience, you will learn better to determine when your tools need it.

Bill

[Gary DeWitt]

I too used a belt sander, until I got an 8" grinder. Thing about using a grinder is, it puts a hollow grind on the tool, a desireable thing if you are going to hone with a diamond "stone" between sharpening on the grinder.
With a hollow grind, you will be able to hone by bringing the stone into contact with the two points, the bottom and top (cutting) edge of the bevel. As long as you have one continous hollow grind with no high spots, you can hone a tool sharper than you can grind it, since your diamond hone (in most cases) is finer than your grinding wheel. Once the bevel has been honed past the point of having a hollow grind, you will be unable to hone it effectively and will need to go back to the grinder.
There is some controversy among experienced turners, to hone or to only grind. I feel it depends on how fast you're willing to use up your steel. After some practice, honing can be done in the same time as grinding.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jason I am a new turner also. I got a grinder with 80 grit wheel and a 120 grit wheel. Get a 8 inch grinder if you don't have one. I also bought the wolverine system with all the jigs. Once you get the sharpening thing down it just takes a few seconds to sharpen a tool while you are turning. If you are using a bowl gouge and you stop to sharpen it with wolverine jig just leave it setup for that gouge and then you can just go back, touch it up and go on. I tried the honing bit and it is a pain. It can be done but takes time and when turning you don't have that kind of time.