who uses slotted screws...

[Art Mulder]

I was just browsing the current (March/April 2006) issue of Fine Woodworking, specifically Crhis Becksvoort's article on "Keeping Tabletops Flat".

As I looked through the photos I was very surprised to see him using slotted screws. I checked closer and see three pictures where he is driving a slotted screw.

Being thoroughly Canadian, I use Robertson (square) screws almost exclusively. I will on occasion use a Phillips screw, but only rarely (eg: Drywall screws are all Phillips, for some reason). But I will NOT willingly use a slotted screw.

I have heard a few people claim that a "well-matched" slotted screw will grip the screwdriver well, but in my experience that has not proved the case. I've slipped, gouging myself or the workpiece, or just dropping the screw, far FAR too many times.

So, I'm curious, do you use slotted screws? Why or Why not.

And please, pardon my Canadian ignorance, but have Robertson screws still not really penetrated the US market?

[Jim O'Dell]

Most of what I've been using lately is actually the Square/X. So I kind of fall between two of the possibilities. But I see it as more of a Phillips than a Robertson. Jim.
ps: the only time I use slotted is to remove them and throw them away!

[Frank Pellow]

Art, in a similar poll on Saw Mill Creek about a year ago, Robertson screws won hands down.

I lived in the USA (Seattle area) from 1997 to 2003, and you could purchase Robertson screws, but they were not as common as they are here and they tended to be more expensive than Philips.


Added Later: Here is the link the the referenced thread that I neglected to place into my original commnet: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16848

[Jim Becker]

This is one of the very few times folks could refer to me as "square"... :) The only time I'd use a slotted screw is if it were required for some kind of period work where the fastener may be visible and appropriate in that format.

[Bob Aliano]

When the project calls for a slotted screw to match the existing hardware, I use them. I don't care for them either, must not have the right assortment of flat blade screwdrivers since I never get the right fit.

[Steve Wargo]

I use slotted screws almost all the time. There is something that's added to the piece when you open the lid of a box, or a door and look at all of the slots perfectly aligned. That makes a difference. It's always the little things.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Robbies all the way.
Howard

[Steven Wilson]

I use Robertson's for furniture carcass work and phillips for home repair because the next owner probably won't have a square drive. However, for nice fittings I do like straight screws, but you need to have good screw drivers that fit the slot. It takes a little doing to find good screw drivers these days.

[David Rose]

I use Robertson's for furniture carcass work and phillips for home repair because the next owner probably won't have a square drive. However, for nice fittings I do like straight screws, but you need to have good screw drivers that fit the slot. It takes a little doing to find good screw drivers these days.

I agree somewhat with Steven. I *will* use slotted screws for small hinges and such, but as a gunsmith, I have screw driver bits to fit them well. I use square drive when I can.

David

[Barry O'Mahony]

I use slotted screws almost all the time. There is something that's added to the piece when you open the lid of a box, or a door and look at all of the slots perfectly aligned. That makes a difference. It's always the little things.

Same here. If I'm doing a "home improvement"-type project, I'll use square drive if available, or philips. But if it's a piece that has aspirations of "fine furniture", and it's visible (e.g., holding hardware), it almost always has to be slotted. Using anything else in situations like that just seems out of place. And yes, I save the "good" screwdrivers with the hardened tips just for these.

[Tony Falotico]

Square Drive whenever possible
Phillips when no squares are available
slotted only when I'm out of nails and It's all my neighbor has left !

[Dave Richards]

I couldn't respond because there wasn't a choice for me. I use all three types of screws as well as some funny little security screws with slightly oval heads.

For applications where I use silicon bronze screws, I use slotted screws. For general applications I use either Phillips or Robertson.

[Mike Cutler]

Like others,I use slotted screws(brass) when the project design requires it.

I think the biggest drawback to slotted screws, is that they are made so cheaply, especially brass.
For folks that like to use brass slotted screws for period pieces. The "Lawson" line of brass screws are very good. They are also not really shiny, but more of a flat brass color in appearance.

[Tyler Howell]

What's a slotted screw:confused:

[Art Mulder]

I use slotted screws almost all the time. There is something that's added to the piece when you open the lid of a box, or a door and look at all of the slots perfectly aligned. That makes a difference. It's always the little things.
Steve, I agree that the little details add up. But you've just described using these screws in visible locations. What about in hidden locations?

And your comments reminded me... I *do* use slotted screws on the trim pieces for light and plug covers. And yes, I do try to line them up.


Most of what I've been using lately is actually the Square/X. ... But I see it as more of a Phillips than a Robertson.
Sorry, forgot about those. They're not that common around here, except in certain things (ie: Door hinges usually come with those). I, of course, would see those as a Robertson, and use a Robertson tip to drive them.


in a similar poll on Saw Mill Creek about a year ago, Robertson screws won hands down
I couldn't respond because there wasn't a choice for me. I use all three types of screws as well as some funny little security screws with slightly oval heads.
Well, Dave, I would have thought that they fourth item on my poll would have made clear that this was intended as a lighthearted question. :rolleyes: Sorry, Frank, I wasn't here a year ago! I did actually think about having more questions to be more accurate, but decided that would be too complicated.


I use Robertson's for furniture carcass work and phillips for home repair because the next owner probably won't have a square drive.
But for the cost of about five bucks you could leave a set of screwdrivers in the drawer for the next homeowner and just use the fasteners you like best.


Thanks for all the comments, guys. Too bad Chris Becksvoort doesn't read this, as I'm really curious to know why he uses slotted screws in a hidden location. Historical accuracy? Doesn't seem likely.

...art

[George Matthews]

And please, pardon my Canadian ignorance, but have Robertson screws still not really penetrated the US market?

Henry Ford...
Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw)

[Frank Pellow]

...
Sorry, Frank, I wasn't here a year ago!

Art my reference was not meant as a critisism. I figured that anyone interested in your poll should also be interested in the results and commnets with the previous one.




...Square/X ... Sorry, forgot about those. They're not that common around here, except in certain things (ie: Door hinges usually come with those). I, of course, would see those as a Robertson, and use a Robertson tip to drive them.

I would hasten to add that they are inferior Robertson. Trying to cater to both types of screw drivers, "screws up" the screws somewhat.

[Mark Rios]

What's a slotted screw:confused:


Let's see Tyler, A slotted screw kinda looks like your backside in that thong of yours.:D :D :D

[tod evans]

art, i use quite a few square drives, i`ve started using some torque heads also. most hardware screws (usa) are phillips but the euro counterparts are torque. if i`m repairing or reproducing an antique i`ll use slots but try to avoid them.....02 tod

[Byron Trantham]

It took me about a year to go through all the slots I had on hand but I was determined to get rid of them! Everything has been replaced with square drive screws. I just love the fact that you can put them on the end of the driver and they stay there!:D

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I was just browsing the current (March/April 2006) issue of Fine Woodworking, specifically Crhis Becksvoort's article on "Keeping Tabletops Flat".

As I looked through the photos I was very surprised to see him using slotted screws. I checked closer and see three pictures where he is driving a slotted screw.

Being thoroughly Canadian, I use Robertson (square) screws almost exclusively. I will on occasion use a Phillips screw, but only rarely (eg: Drywall screws are all Phillips, for some reason). But I will NOT willingly use a slotted screw.

I have heard a few people claim that a "well-matched" slotted screw will grip the screwdriver well, but in my experience that has not proved the case. I've slipped, gouging myself or the workpiece, or just dropping the screw, far FAR too many times.

So, I'm curious, do you use slotted screws? Why or Why not.

And please, pardon my Canadian ignorance, but have Robertson screws still not really penetrated the US market?

Art, we drove our RV to Alaska a couple of years ago and had to stop in Edmonton to make a repair. I went to HD and was surprised to find they didn't carry anything but square drive screws. I walked up and down that aisle ten times figuring I just missed them. That was almost as confusing as my visit to Canadian Tire. I paid $198 CN with exactly $200 and got about $50 in change. It took me a few seconds and help from the cashier to figure out that all but $2 was in "Canadian Tire Dollars". She said, and I quote "You're not from around here, are you?" It gave the wife a good chuckle.

[Art Mulder]

I figured that anyone interested in your poll should also be interested in the results and commnets with the previous one.

Thanks, Frank, a bit of -er- screwing around with the search form and here it is:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16848

I was a bit puzzled by one gentleman's emphatic warning about having to deal with screws that had been painted over with 30 years worth of crud.

Robertson screws have been in use here for almost a hundred years. But I can't really think of the last time that I've ever had trouble with a screw being unuseable due to paint or some other gunky finish clogging it up.

Perhaps that has to do with the slight taper a true Robertson has. On rare occaisions I seem to recall using a thin pick to clean out a screw head, and the stuff pops out enough to give a bite to the screwdriver. But in truth, I have not worked in furniture restoration, and that would seem to me to be the main place that you might encounter this.

Anyone else encountered old robertson screws that are unusable (to remove) due to being filled with paint or other gunk?

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks, Frank, a bit of -er- screwing around with the search form and here it is:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16848

Sorry Art, I intended to provide the link along with my comment and I did not realize that I had neglected to do so. Thanks for digging for it. I will also go back now and add it to my comment.



I was a bit puzzled by one gentleman's emphatic warning about having to deal with screws that had been painted over with 30 years worth of crud.

Robertson screws have been in use here for almost a hundred years. But I can't really think of the last time that I've ever had trouble with a screw being unuseable due to paint or some other gunky finish clogging it up.

Perhaps that has to do with the slight taper a true Robertson has. On rare occaisions I seem to recall using a thin pick to clean out a screw head, and the stuff pops out enough to give a bite to the screwdriver. But in truth, I have not worked in furniture restoration, and that would seem to me to be the main place that you might encounter this.

Anyone else encountered old robertson screws that are unusable (to remove) due to being filled with paint or other gunk?
I too, have had to dig out gunk with a small nail or pin, but have never encountered a (true) Robertson screw that I could not remove. And, I have worked on quite a bit of restoration.

[Art Mulder]

Art, we drove our RV to Alaska a couple of years ago and had to stop in Edmonton to make a repair. I went to HD and was surprised to find they didn't carry anything but square drive screws. I walked up and down that aisle ten times figuring I just missed them. That was almost as confusing as my visit to Canadian Tire. I paid $198 CN with exactly $200 and got about $50 in change. It took me a few seconds and help from the cashier to figure out that all but $2 was in "Canadian Tire Dollars". She said, and I quote "You're not from around here, are you?" It gave the wife a good chuckle.

Dennis, you just need to look closer... I think the ratio is probably about 98% Robertson. :D Seriously, you'll find Phillips in the brass section, or with other specialty fasteners. And, of course, you could have always fallen back on drywall screws. Those are all Phillips.

As for Canadian Tire money. I think the ratio is either 3% or 5% in C.Tire money for cash transactions. And if you think you were confused... back in '91 when I moved to Edmonton I was was shocked to discover that the western Canada Canadian Tire stores did not use Canadian Tire money. (They added it in about 5 years later, if I recall.) Seemed almost un-Canadian.

[Jim Becker]

I use Robertson's for furniture carcass work and phillips for home repair because the next owner probably won't have a square drive.

Interestingly enough, I'm seeing more and more Robertson/Square drive screws in things like windows and doors and electrical gear.

[Carl Eyman]

Recently, I was using some small (#4 x 1/2") brass philips head in a tight place where it was difficult to get a straight shot at them. After stripping several I went to the hardware store bought slotted replacements and with an offset screwdriver ran them in ok. One ofe the few cases, I guess, but one , at least.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I can see certain instances where phillips screws are used, but I have never understood why ANYONE would want to mess with slotted screws. They have to be the worst design for a screwhead in the world.

I much prefer square drives since they cam out less than any other design.

[Lee DeRaud]

Recently, I was using some small (#4 x 1/2") brass philips head in a tight place where it was difficult to get a straight shot at them. After stripping several I went to the hardware store bought slotted replacements and with an offset screwdriver ran them in ok. One ofe the few cases, I guess, but one , at least.I've been in that very situation, and IMHO it's still easier to deal with Phillips, if for no other reason than that there's exactly half as much jockeying of the screwdriver to get it lined up with the screwhead.

(Of course, my opinion is somewhat biased by the fact that the only offset screwdriver I have is, you guessed it, Phillips.)

[Tyler Howell]

Electrical manufactures (boxes, clamps, hangers, are offering options with square/phillips/slotted all in one screw:eek:. Speeds things up a little ;)

[John D Watson]

I agree with Steve and Barry. I use slotted brass for looks and square for strength and ease of use.

[Charlie Plesums]

The primary reason I use a screw for other than hardware is in something that may need to be adjusted or repaced... such as wooden drawer runners. Although I prefer square, I try to use the dual square/phillips because the people who buy my furniture would be lucky to have a phillips driver - no chance of square driver around here.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I had my coffee can of miscellaneous wood screws out for some reason the other day, and I decided it was time to get rid of those pesky slotted screws. I think I tossed half the can. Made me feel good too!

[Lee Schierer]

I use mostly philips type screws except for the pocket hole screws which only come in a square drive.

It seems to me that my Dad told me once that what we affectionately call Philips screws were originally Robertson screws that were invented in Canada. The Philips company apparently copied the design and took over the market here in the states so the screws came to be known as philips head screws. This was all many years ago so my recolection could be in error.

[Barry O'Mahony]

Although I prefer square, I try to use the dual square/phillips because the people who buy my furniture would be lucky to have a phillips driver - no chance of square driver around here.LOL!, You must be talking about my sister-in-law and her family. We visitied there a couple of Christmas's ago; they took advantage of the presence of relatives with a pickup truck to make a trip to Ikea (I know, I know). My niece bought one of those cheap knock-down dressers (is there any other kind at Ikea?). When They got it home, the niece says "Mom, when are you going to call the handyman to come put this together?"

What? You're going to hire someone to assemble this? Doesn't that mess up the whole point of going to Ikea in the first place?

It was simply beyond the experience of anyone in that household to use a screwdriver and a small hammer.

Yea, I put it together for here before we left. Reminded myself to tell my daughter that if she ever marries an attorney, at least get one that owns a tool box.

[Bruce Haugen]

I use Torx almost exclusively. They are much tougher than drywall screws and are as easy to drive as Robertsons. However, I will use Robertsons when I can find them.

Bruce

[Ken Salisbury]

The last time I used a slotted screw was in 1946 (approx) when helping my Grandfather repair an old farm wagon in his shop :):D.

[Carl Eyman]

Lee: I may be able to add an anecdote to your observation. The Phillips Company was a screw machine company around Brockto MA. My wife and I used to drive past it on our way to her parents' house in Sharon MA For those not familiar with automatic screw machines they have almost nothing to do with screws, but are small metal turning lathes to make small parts capable of being made on a lathe. A finial that holds on a lamp shade would be an example of what they could make. I mentioned it to my FIL one day and he said they had the patent on the Phillips Head Screw, but never were able to do much with it. People waited until the patent ran out and produced them at will. He showed me a cardboard box that looked very 1930ish with a wooden handled Phillips screwdriver and an assortment of screws. He was a general contractor for upscale residential construction. They had sent out this kit to introduce the trade to Phillips screws. I guess their marketing department needed some tweaking.

[Bruce Haugen]

I saw a thing just the other day on the History Channel on the history of the Ford Motor Co. Apparently, the Robertson screw came first, then the Phillips. What happened was that the Robertson inventor approached Henry Ford. Ford acknowledged the superiority of the square drive for production work, but Robertson wanted too much (according to Ford) for the rights to use it. He went with the alternative. The rest is history, as it were.

Bruce

[Frank Pellow]

...
Reminded myself to tell my daughter that if she ever marries an attorney, at least get one that owns a tool box.
Barry, you can solve that problem by getting your daughter her own tool box. :) I put together tool boxes with good tools for my daughters and gave then to them on their 18th birthdays. Of course, by then, they had already been trained in the use of the tools. This gifts were a big hit and their friends all thought that the girls (and, by implication, their Dad) were "cool".

Both my daughters brought more woodworking tools and more woodworking and home repair skills to their marriages than either of their husbands.

[Frank Pellow]

...
It seems to me that my Dad told me once that what we affectionately call Philips screws were originally Robertson screws that were invented in Canada. The Philips company apparently copied the design and took over the market here in the states so the screws came to be known as philips head screws. This was all many years ago so my recolection could be in error.


I saw a thing just the other day on the History Channel on the history of the Ford Motor Co. Apparently, the Robertson screw came first, then the Phillips. What happened was that the Robertson inventor approached Henry Ford. Ford acknowledged the superiority of the square drive for production work, but Robertson wanted too much (according to Ford) for the rights to use it. He went with the alternative. The rest is history, as it were.

Bruce

Neither of these is entirely true.

Robertson screws have always been square drive and Philips did not get their design from Robertson.

Robertson screws were used in the Model A Ford.

See the overview at: http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/robertson_screws.htm for the "real" story.

[Dale Thompson]

I'm with Tyler on THIS one! :) EGADS!! I have enough ways to wreck a project without using slotted head screws to enhance the massacre!! ;) :eek: :D

Dale T.

[Rob Millard]

For the reproductions I make, slotted screws are the only way to go. I hand file the heads, and slot. I also heat them with a torch, and quench in salt water to age the screw.
Rob Millard

[Art Mulder]

Art, in a similar poll on Saw Mill Creek about a year ago, Robertson screws won hands down. ....
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16848

Just thought I'd post a last comment, to bump this post up to the top, in case anyone wants a final look at the poll results.

Also, in part I have to confess that I used a slotted screw on the weekend :eek:... I was replacing some electrical outlet trim covers. I don't think I've ever seen those with anything other than a slotted screw.

And I still dislike them. They fall off the screwdriver and roll away, the screwdriver slips out when driving them, and so on. Just think how much time electricians could save when wiring houses if these came with square heads, and would anyone really notice?:p

But I must say I'm curious about those poll results. We show about a 50% split on preference between Robertson and Phillips, yet Frank's poll of a year ago (in the link above) had a 70% preference for Robertson. Roughly the same number of people voted in each poll. One minor difference was that Frank's poll asked what you prefer, and my poll asked what you primarily use.

So there you go.

[Joe Spear]

McFeeley's has square-drive drywall screws. Why hasn't the Robertson screw penetrated the U.S. market? Inertia?

[tod evans]

McFeeley's has square-drive drywall screws. Why hasn't the Robertson screw penetrated the U.S. market? Inertia?

joe, i think the reason drywallers don`t use square drives is that screwguns are designed so that a phillips cams out when the preset depth is hit. robbersons don`t cam out well which is why most woodworkers love `em..02 tod

[Brandon Shew]

This is one of the very few times folks could refer to me as "square"... :) The only time I'd use a slotted screw is if it were required for some kind of period work where the fastener may be visible and appropriate in that format.

I tend to agree.

Otherwise slotted (flathead) screws suck. I don't know how electricians lived with them for so long.

[Steve Clardy]

I hate slotted screws.
Only time I wll use one is when reproducing something.

[Clint Malone]

I thought those flat screwdrivers were for opening paint cans...you mean they make screws that match?

[Dale Thompson]

I don't know how electricians lived with them for so long.

Brandon,
We must have some electricians out there. Why not ask them to contact NEMA or check the CURSED "National Electrical Code" (NFPA 60)! ;)

Not that it matters to ME! I will crack the covers no matter WHAT kind of screw I am using. :o :( Yeah, I KNOW that they have those "flexible" covers but they are way too expensive and, besides, I ENJOY rapid fluctuations in my blood pressure!! :rolleyes: :eek: :)

Dale T.