Any "Chainsaw lumber mill" owners out there ?

[John Pollman]

Hi all,

In the past on a couple of occasions I've mentioned that I have a couple of really nice Black Cherry trees and a huge Ash that I was considering having milled. Last week I was contacted by another member here who just happens to live in my city. He said that last April he bought a Logosol Timber Jig and he just loves it. He said he'd be happy to give me a hand milling up some of this wood for a share of the lumber. He came out Saturday morning and looked things over and said it definitely looks doable. That sounds like a good plan to me and I think that's probably what I'll do. Late last summer I bought a nice new Stihl 250C and a couple of months ago I got a GREAT deal on a Husky 365 with a 28" bar. The Husky was BRAND NEW and in fact had never even had fuel in it and I got it for less than half of the best price I've ever found it for. Well now that I've got a saw that can handle the task I'm considering picking up a Timber Jig also. Even when the Cherries and the big Ash are milled, there are still other very useable Ashes on my lot that I can cut and mill so the investment looks very worth while. I'm just curious if anyone else here has ever used a setup like this or a similar one. I ordered a catalog and DVD from Logosol and it should be here in about a week. If things go well, I'm thinking that there is plenty of wood (Ash) on my lot to make a whole new kitchen. I think that would just be too cool to build a new kitchen out of trees grown on my lot !

Any of you "lumberjacks" out there have any pros and cons ?

Thanks for any input !

John

[Ian Abraham]

When you say 'really big'.. how big do you mean?
365 is a good medium size saw, but it's not going to do the job for heavy milling. Small stuff may be OK.
Most of the guys that are into chainsaw milling end up with 90cc or bigger saws. My mill is a chainsaw powered swingblade (circle blade) with a 135cc Stihl, it could do with more power sometimes :rolleyes:

But you are right, making stuff from your own trees is way cool :D
Just realise that chainsaw mills have their limitations. Take that guy up on his offer to saw one of your trees, you will get to have a go with the milling rig and see if it's what you want.

Otherwise track down someone with a portable band sawmill and hire him to saw your logs, MUCH faster and less waste.

Cheers

Ian

[John Pollman]

Thanks Ian,

that's the kind of input I'm looking for. A lot of the Ash that I have are good size but not huge. The Timber Jig isn't too terribly expensive so I could justify having it for logs like that. However, the big Ash that I have out front is about 32" diameter and I can probably get at least two 10' logs out of it as well as some shorter smaller diameter logs. I have been in contact with someone who has a portable band saw mill that may end up being the better way to go for the big stuff. And now that you mention it, I'm sure that there is probably less waste with a band saw mill and that may even be the better option for those Cherries. I'd hate to waste any more than I have to out of those beauties !

Thanks again !

John

[Vaughn McMillan]

John, I'm guessing you might not have seen this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27490. It's a long, but very entertaining account of a Canadian lumberjack stuck in a liquor store in Tokyo. If you don't have time to read the book, the movie is here (http://workingwoods.com/workingwoods/misc%20images/Logging%20in%20Tokyo%20-%20The%20Video.wmv). (Takes a bit to load, but worth the wait.) ;)

- Vaughn

[Ian Abraham]

Yes.. Stu's adventures must be the holy grail of urban lumberjacks :D

You will see he's got a decent Husky saw and a heavy duty electric saw, both good things for milling. And he's recovering wood from a spot that no other mill would be practical.

Chainsaw mills have their place, but if you have enough logs to justify a proper sawmill, even if it's just hiring one for a day, then go that way.

Cheers

Ian

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

John, I'm guessing you might not have seen this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27490. It's a long, but very entertaining account of a Canadian lumberjack stuck in a liquor store in Tokyo. If you don't have time to read the book, the movie is here (http://workingwoods.com/workingwoods/misc%20images/Logging%20in%20Tokyo%20-%20The%20Video.wmv). (Takes a bit to load, but worth the wait.) ;)

- Vaughn

Yes.. Stu's adventures must be the holy grail of urban lumberjacks :D

You will see he's got a decent Husky saw and a heavy duty electric saw, both good things for milling. And he's recovering wood from a spot that no other mill would be practical.

Chainsaw mills have their place, but if you have enough logs to justify a proper sawmill, even if it's just hiring one for a day, then go that way.

Cheers

Ian
I resemble these remarks! :D

If you have a lot of wood to cut up, and you can stand the price, get a bandsaw mill.

If you can't stand the price, and just want the wood, hire a bandsaw mill.

If you don't mind doing it a bit at a time, and don't mind the grunt work, get a chainsaw mill.

I do not know which mill is the best, as the only one I've ever used is my mill, the one I built :D

I'll tell you, it is hard work, no need to go to the health club for a while, everything about green lumber is heavy.

Lot at the last page of my Logging in Tokyo Thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27490) I have some suggestions for making it easier, one is to make sure you use the right chain, the Granburg style I ended up using makes the job SOOO much easier it is not funny. I had fun doing mine, kind of sorry it is over, as now I've gotten fairly efficient at it..... (ya, took me a while)...... and I know I could do it again with much less fuss than the first time.

If you go to this site Bill's Wood Creations (http://www.billswoodcreations.com/lumber-1.html) and look at this "Quarter sawn lumber" info (the link leads to that) you will see that even with a smaller saw, can cut up nice lumber. His ideas of a tripod with a chain hoist, and the steel stands are very good, they would make life a lot easier, unless you have a tractor with some attachment on it that you can lift the logs around with.

Lots of people say that running the chainsaw in a mill is hard on the saw, I do not agree.

You have to do a few things to not blow-up your saw, they are all easy to do, and with some care and attention, you will have no problems. Having a bigger saw is a must, I have an old Husky 185, this is an 85cc saw, and cutting 20" thick HARD wood it went along just fine. The older saw has a long stroke motor, so the revs are lower, and the chain speed is slower, than a new saw, but, that being said, it has a lot more torque, which really matter when you are milling.

Here is a list of things you have to do to make your saw last (in no particular order)

Use new gas, old gas sucks.

You have to learn how to tune your saw,this is not hard to do, I found that after lunch, when it had warmed up on a sunny day, I would just tweak the high speed gas needle a smidge, and the saw would run better.

Check your plug for the nice tan brown color, if it is white, it is running too lean, if it is black too rich. This may sound confusing at first, but it is not hard to figure out.

Use good oil, I like the Castrol Synthetic oil, as the perfumed smell as it burns hides my BO :rolleyes:

Use the Granburg style of chain (see the last page in my Tokyo Logging thread)

Use a sprocket nosed bar (the usual thing now a days)

Make sure you chain is getting enough oil, if you need to (and you should) install an auxiliary oiler on the mill.

Adjust your chain's tension as it needs it.

Get a good sharpening jig the clamps on your bar, Oregon makes them, and so does Granburg. Learn how to use it.

Have extra files around, change them when they get dull.

Learn to file the cut limiters on your chain, again, the filling guides are key.

Sharpen your chain every tank of gas, or more often, nothing worse than a dull chain, the saw works harder, and everything gets heated up, plus you make lousy cuts, I Know.... :o

Flip your bar every 4th or 5th sharpening, this evens the wear on the bar.

Use wedges behind your cut to stop the weight of the saw, mill and board from pinching your bar.

OK, that is just off the top of my head.


I think you should look around for a good older used saw, you can find one that is bigger, 90cc plus, but not new, in good shape, as most don't want this kind of saw anymore, as they are heavy, and not much fun to lug around, but for you, the weight of the saw is not very important, as you are not carrying it around all day, it rides on the mill, you just push it.

Can you do this with a chainsaw mill, absolutely, do you want to...? Your call ;) :D

Hey, I lost nearly 12 lbs doing this work!

One last thing, think safety, good safety gear is worth it's weight in gold.

If you have any questions, ask away, I'm not an expert, but on Dec 12th, 2005 I did not even own a chain saw, and hardly even knew what a chainsaw mill was, and I'd never seen one in person, or how to use it, now I have around 1200 BF of lumber drying.

Cheers!

[Chris Barton]

I have zero first hand experience with a chain mill but, it would seem to me that if you have a significant amount of logs to mill it would be more cost effective to hire a guy with a band mill to cut it for you. While a chain mill can do the job you have a fairly large amount of waste due to the way you have to use the mill and the width of the chainsaw kerf. Good luck with your projects either way.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have zero first hand experience with a chain mill but, it would seem to me that if you have a significant amount of logs to mill it would be more cost effective to hire a guy with a band mill to cut it for you. While a chain mill can do the job you have a fairly large amount of waste due to the way you have to use the mill and the width of the chainsaw kerf. Good luck with your projects either way.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here Chris, about the "Kerf" thing that is.

You can get thin kerf bars and ripping chains, and they cut a thin kerf, yes the bandsaw mill cuts thinner, but, a lot of the "Hire out guys" (not all of them for sure) get lazy about tension on the blade, and keeping the blade really sharp, so they get a fair amount of wavy boards. I've seen it for myself, and I've heard from a lot of guys that have had this problem.

If the mill operator is good, he will have sharp blades, and will take care to make sure the mill cuts nice flat boards.

A perfectly tuned mill will waste less, you are correct, but in reality it is not that much. A thin kerf blade and chain are not far behind the bandsaw kerf, IMHO.

If your chain is sharp, and you know what you are doing, a chainsaw mill cuts very nice flat boards, with little waste.

If John P. wants to do this on his own, and he is not in a huge hurry, with some shopping around, he can get into this for a lot less than buying a bandsaw mill, and can do it at his own pace.

Just my opinion mind you, and I'm not trying to start something, so please don't take it that way.

Cheers!

[John Pollman]

Thanks again for all of the input guys.

I've got a Husky 365 which is only 65cc. Sounds like it's a bit on the small side for milling. It may be ok for smaller logs which I think that I might consider when the time comes. But when it comes to the big ones, I might job it out to a band saw mill. As I said before, I've got a guy fairly close to me that will do it for a pretty reasonable cost I think.

I'll keep you posted on what happens.

John

[Robert Mickley]

About all I can add is bigger is better. I've ripped a few logs that where too big to fit in the band mill. I can tell you this much there isn't any way on gods green earth I would saw a whole log like that if I could avoid it.

I do have to disagree with Stu though. Bandsaw and blade technology has come a long way in the last several years. Getting straight boards isn't hard even for a lazy operator. Find someone who does it for a living or a SERIOUS weekend sawer that comes highly recommended.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

About all I can add is bigger is better. I've ripped a few logs that where too big to fit in the band mill. I can tell you this much there isn't any way on gods green earth I would saw a whole log like that if I could avoid it.

I do have to disagree with Stu though. Bandsaw and blade technology has come a long way in the last several years. Getting straight boards isn't hard even for a lazy operator. Find someone who does it for a living or a SERIOUS weekend sawer that comes highly recommended.

Fair enough Robert, my info and experience with Bandsaw mills is at least 10 years old, I did not realize there have been such leaps.

How did they improve it?

Just curious is all. :D

Cheers!

[Dennis Peacock]

I've got a buddy that has a Woodmizer LT40HD. This thing is awesome. I have seen with my own eyes and helped him one day....cut from logs just over 4,000 BdFt of lumber!!! Besides me being "whooped" from simply stacking wet lumber all day, he simply "rode" on the mill and cut timber. Changed blades 4 times. Seems like he liked to change blades about every 1,000 BdFt of green timber.

Hiring a bandmill can be very inexpensive when you compare to buying chainsaws, the mill for the saw, all the necessary items to keep it up and running, and the wear and tear on you. Depending on your location and how hungry the sawyer is, you can get a deal on them cutting your timber into boards. About $75 for travel and setup, then about $0.30 per board foot.

You can get a small Woodmizer for around $3K and as we all know, that's just the beginning of the cost for a hobby mill at your home. Kinda reminds me of the lathe's I own in my shop. :rolleyes:

All of this is just my experience and I'm in no way telling you how to do things or think about them. Just what I've experienced locally.

[Bill Lewis]

I don't know Dennis, I think the cheapest woodmizer (LT-15) is now about $6k new, without any add-ons. A friend of mine picked up a very lightly used one from his neighbor across the street for $4k about a year ago. It came with lots of add-ons though, extension bed, and a trailering kit were the two big ones I remember.

I could be wrong, and there may be some $3k mills out there, but even still that's a lot of money. You would still have to have the ability to load the log on the mill so that means more money with a hydraulic loader (add-on) or a tractor. After all that you'd still probably have some chain saws to go along with it.

[Ed Lang]

Look for someone with a Peterson swing blade mill in your area.

Google might help :-)

[Ian Abraham]

The new baby Woodmizer starts at around $4,000. It's got a Mighty 7hp engine and everything about it is manual. But if you just want to cut a few logs for yourself at weekends it will work OK.
http://www.woodmizer.com/en/sawmills/manual/LT10/index.aspx

Baker make a similar baby mill for under $3,000, but you have to make do with 5hp :o
http://www.baker-online.com/DOCUMENTS/woodbuddy.html

Sure it's still a lot of money, but people are spending that on table saws already, so if you are dead set on sawing your own wood it's an option :)

Ian

[Robert Mickley]

Fair enough Robert, my info and experience with Bandsaw mills is at least 10 years old, I did not realize there have been such leaps.

How did they improve it?

Just curious is all. :D

Cheers!

Lots of things, blades being the biggest, when they first started out bandsaw blades where made frome the same steels used to cut steel. Take Timberwolf, they use Swedish silicon steel blades, that in there words are just the cats meow :rolleyes: I persoanly am using woodmizer's new double hard blades, while they don't leave quite as nice a finish as the TW's they seem to last just as long and Woodmizer has a resharp program that in my experiance can't be beat. Plus they are about $6 cheaper than than the TW's.

Mills have advanced much the way cars have, better machining procces during manufacture leading to tighter tolerances is probably the best thing to happen.
Lets face it its just an oversized bandsaw. They run smoother and track better all of which makes milling easier.

Of course with a little work even an old mill can perform well. My Breezewood is a 1991 model and while its not as fast as some of the new mills it still does a fine job. Don't get me wrong I've made some ski slope boards and ones that looked like rolling country side when I first started out but it doesn't happen too often these days. When it does you can bet your last dollar it was my fault, not the mills.

I will agree a lot still has to do with the operator, and you have to know how to read a log to get the most out of it.

[Bill Lewis]

The new baby Woodmizer starts at around $4,000. It's got a Mighty 7hp engine and everything about it is manual. But if you just want to cut a few logs for yourself at weekends it will work OK.
IanIsn't that baby woodmizer cute. I didn't know they had come out with a new model.
You're right Ian, these smaller and more affordable mills are not too bad for a weekend sawyer's personal use.

[Chris Barton]

There have been many times I have thought about this process be it with a chain saw or a band mill. And after doing due dilligence what I have found is that unless you have;

a) time on your hands
b) lots of unused storage space
c) lots of free fairly old growth trees
d) high volume need for wood

The payoff is either negative or marginal. However, if you have "b" and "c" paying for a band mill to come do the job can be cost effective. Most people don't really think about the fact that after you invest the time into cutting, stacking and storage that you probably won't be able to use this wood for 1-2 years after cutting and it still has to be surfaced to s6s at that point in time. For most hobbiest woodworkers, buying lumber from reasonably priced outlets like Steve Wall Lumber is in the longrun less expensive than making it your self. But, this could become a new hobby in and of itself!

[lou sansone]

I have a band saw mill .. the kerf is thin and nothing like a chain saw. IMHO the there are only 2 reasons to own a chain saw mill

1. you have very very large logs that now standard bsm can handle - this is a good reason to have one

2. your cheap and dont want to spend the money for a mill - this is a near sighted reason because you can hire out the job to a bsm owner for 30 to 40 cents per bd feet and be done with it

lou

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have a band saw mill .. the kerf is thin and nothing like a chain saw. IMHO the there are only 2 reasons to own a chain saw mill

1. you have very very large logs that now standard bsm can handle - this is a good reason to have one

2. your cheap and dont want to spend the money for a mill - this is a near sighted reason because you can hire out the job to a bsm owner for 30 to 40 cents per bd feet and be done with it

lou

Hey Lou, I'm not cheap, I'm frugal ;)

I cannot "Hire Out" a bandsaw mill, I could buy one, there is one on Yahoo auction for　$15,000 ....... :rolleyes: :D

[Chip Charnley]

I will add one word of warning to all the other good thoughts here. If you are cutting EAB kill Ash in Michigan, be prepared to get it kiln dried before you use it. I had several milled and have talked to others that have done so and Powder Post Beetles seem to love Ash and be quite plentiful here in Michigan. They did not show up in my air dried stack until 16 months after milling and AFTER I had moved the stack into my basement to try to air dry it down to 8%-10% from the 12%-20% I got outside.

According to Dr. Gene over on Woodweb, PPB can show up as much as 2-3 years after milling if not KD at 130*+ for 24 hours+.

[Robert Mickley]

There have been many times I have thought about this process be it with a chain saw or a band mill. And after doing due dilligence what I have found is that unless you have;

a) time on your hands
b) lots of unused storage space
c) lots of free fairly old growth trees
d) high volume need for wood

The payoff is either negative or marginal. However, if you have "b" and "c" paying for a band mill to come do the job can be cost effective. Most people don't really think about the fact that after you invest the time into cutting, stacking and storage that you probably won't be able to use this wood for 1-2 years after cutting and it still has to be surfaced to s6s at that point in time. For most hobbiest woodworkers, buying lumber from reasonably priced outlets like Steve Wall Lumber is in the longrun less expensive than making it your self. But, this could become a new hobby in and of itself!

Well Chris I have to respectfully disagree with you .

First off true old growth is almost non existant in this country, what old growth is left is rare and hard to find. With most of it being in state and national forest lands.

Mills don't have to be expensive. I got mine for $3000. cheap? yes but not unheard of. I didn't buy it with the intention of being in the lumber business or even the sawing busines but it has generated enough money to pay for itself in two years sawing just in my free time, something I don't have a lot of. A lot of guys don't want to be bothered with sawing less than 1000 BF of lumber. I've sawn lots of orders that where only a couple logs yielding 100 BF or so. Now I'm not going to move the mill for 100 bf since mine isn't on wheels. But I am moving it tomorrow 45 miles, but that job all ready has about 20 logs ready and the farmer is going to have probably 20 to 30 more. Plus my Brother is right up the road from the job and he has about 20 logs that need sawed.

Trees don't need to be free to be profitable, if it wasn't profitable somewhere down the line sawmills wouldn't exist. Hook up with a local logger and try to get the stuff they can't sell to the mills. I've sawn a lot of stuff that was under 8 feet in length. These logs can usually be bought cheaper than grade logs. Lets face it, how many of us build projects that require 8 foot material. I've built a few but the most of my stuff has been built with short logs.

Drying isn't that big of an issue. Solar kilns are cheap to build. There is lots of frre info on them and other drying methods out there.

Storage space can get to be an issue. Right now I have around 1500 BF of cherry and about 1000 BF of quartesawn white oak stacked and stickered sitting under my cousins storage trailer waiting to go in the kiln. The only reason I haven't dryed it yet is once its done I don't have any place to store it. Short of putting it in the house and thats not gonna fly :rolleyes:

Personly I get more enjoyment out of building something that I took from tree to furniture than I do if I buy the lumber. This way you get control of the quality of the lumber and you get to pick the cream of the crop to work with. Besides it's an excuse for buying a new tool, not that I ever needed an excuse. All I have to do is go buy it if I want it.

High volume need for wood? nobody ever has enough wood, besides your blood pressure stays a lot lower when you make a mistake when theres a big old stack sitting there and you can just pick out another board.

[Charles McKinley]

I think the site is sawmillexchange.com. There is nothinf=g wrong with starting out with used equipment, especially if it saves big $$$. I am interested in a swing mill if I get into this more. On the othe hand if I get itto the mill we only pay 15 cents a board foot.

[lou sansone]

Hey Lou, I'm not cheap, I'm frugal ;)

I cannot "Hire Out" a bandsaw mill, I could buy one, there is one on Yahoo auction for　$15,000 ....... :rolleyes: :D

I have spent time in Japan and understand your plight .... so for all those who are not stu in Japan.... my point still stands -

regards lou

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I think the site is sawmillexchange.com. There is nothinf=g wrong with starting out with used equipment, especially if it saves big $$$. I am interested in a swing mill if I get into this more. On the othe hand if I get itto the mill we only pay 15 cents a board foot.

Yep, used equipment is the way to go, use it, see if you like it, if you don't, sell it, lose very little money, if you do, sell it, or trade up.

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have spent time in Japan and understand your plight .... so for all those who are not stu in Japan.... my point still stands -

regards lou
Thanks for seeing my point! :D

Cheers!

[Ted Christiansen]

John,

To choose which route - hired bandsaw mill or purchased chainsaw mill - is best for you, you should have a bandsaw mill operator out to give you a quote.

Regards,

Ted

[John Pollman]

Wow !

I got much more input than I'd expected on this thread. :)
I'm really not interested in buying a bandsaw mill, although that would be cool. I just don't have the $$ or a place to keep it. I have been in touch with a guy who has a portable band saw mill that would probably work great. But about a week ago I went to the Logosol web site and ordered an info kit and free DVD. I received it today and watched it. I've got to tell you that I'm intrigued. It looks like a pretty slick system. The Timber Jig is only $165 and I figure that I can probably buy another bar and rip chain for about $75. So for about $250 (a litle additional for lumber to build the guide jigs) I can have a pretty slick chainsaw mill. My saw may be a little undersize. It's only a 65 cc and most here recommend a 90. But I just bought this saw very cheap and it was BRAND NEW and had never even seen fuel when I picked it up. So if I get this mill and the saw is too underpowered, I could sell it and use the proceeds to go toward a bigger saw.
I had a guy out yesterday and he gave me a price just to drop the trees and I think he was a tad high for what I wanted him to do. He wanted $2200 just to "get them on the ground". I told him I wanted to do it as cheaply as possible and that I'd do ALL of the cleanup and he didn't have to haul or move anything. I would do all of that and he just had to cut the wood and get it down. The Ash will definitely be a hired out job because of its size but I'm considering dropping the Cherries myself. I've got plenty of space and can probably cut them and lay them right down where they could be cut up. This looks like a fun little project to work on. If I do get the mill and it works as good as I hope it does, I'll probably build a solar kiln and dry the lumber that way. I've got to believe that there is a good deal of value in those Cherry trees.

I'll keep you all posted....

Thanks again !

John