DP Run out, can it be fixed

[Brian Parker]

Earlier today I was lining up a spade bit in my DP and then I raised up the bit and turned on the press. When I did so I noticed a bit of wobble in it so I lowered the tip of the bit just enough to touch the piece of wood that I had clamped to the table. It was then that I saw how much wobble it had in it from how far the tip was traveling. I turned off the press and measured the diameter of the circle that it left. I came up with a diameter of 3/32”. I realize that the tip of the bit is maybe 1/64” but I can see the tip traveling a bit with the naked eye, I don’t have any fancy tool to measure it with but I don’t think that this is normal.

Is there anyway to fix this or should I just call Delta up and have them send me another one?

[Chris Barton]

Make sure it's not just a bent bit first. Try doing the same with a new bit.

[Brian Parker]

Chris,

That's a good point that you make. I forgot to mention that I tried a few bits and still noticed the wobble. Its just frustrating that I spent all of that money and its out of wack that much.

[Jim Becker]

Remove, thoroughly clean the taper and re-seat the chuck to see if it takes care of your issue.

[Brian Parker]

Jim,

How do I remove the chuck?

[Allen Bookout]

Brian,

I still would not be convinced that your problem is bad run out. I am not sure that there are any straight spade bits. You do not notice it so much with a hand drill as you usually place the bit prior to drilling so you do not see them wobble so much.

I would check by using something really straight like a heavy duty straight router bit or something to that effect. What I used to check mine was a centering alignment pin such as the one found in the link below. They do not cost very much and as far as I know are REALLY straight. Or maybe a forstner bit.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/routacc1.html

What kind of drill press do you have and how old is it?

Allen

[Jim DeLaney]

Thar spade bit is probably protruding what - six inches? - from the chuck, so the runout is pretty exaggerated over what it would be with shorter bits.

Have you tried checking the runout with a larger shanked bit? - something like a half inch twist drill bit, or a half inch brad point?

It could be that the relatively small diameter (1/4 inch?) of the spade bit, with its large - possibly eccentric - spade on the end could be contributing to wobble, too.

Can you center punch a mark, and drop a 1/8" or 3/16" bit into the punch mark without it wobbling about? If you can, then the runout is probably okay.

If it's too much, then Jim Becker's advice to remove the chuck, clean the taper, and reseat the chuck is the place to start. If that doesn't work, you may have either an eccentric chuck, or worn shaft bearings.

[Jim Becker]

How do I remove the chuck?

There actually should be instructions on how to do this in the manual (my Jet manual does) and sometimes they even include the "tool" that is used to do the deed. There should be a slot in the spindle that lets you pry the taper out from "above"...at least that's the way it is with my DP. Once you have it out, clean the tapers (both the inside of the spindle and the taper on the chuck) and then re-seat by using the DP's plunge action against a block of wood.

That said, I agree with Allen that you should check with a few more "round objects" to confirm it's the machine and not the tooling.

[Brian Parker]

I have the Delta 17-965 and I've had it for a few weeks now. This is only the second or third time that I have really used it.
Jim, I checked the manual and there is no reference of how to remove the chuck, I'll go and look at the press tomorrow after work and see if it can be removed via the method you mentioned.

I'm going to get myself one of those centering alignment tools that Allen mentioned and go from there.

[Lou Morrissette]

Brian,

The tool Jim is refering to is called a drift key. If one is not included with your DP, McMaster-Carr sells them. I agree that a spade drill is not the best tool to check drill chuck runout. There is too much runout inherently
built into the drill and a more substantial drill or pin should be used.

Lou

[Allen Bookout]

Brian,

I just got the Delta 17-965 last week and checked the runout to be .003 of an inch about two inches below the chuck. I posted the results on this forum asking what the limit was and the responses assured me that it was within limits. Since it is the same model and the same age hopefully it is just your measuring system. If it really is out I would bet that Jim's suggestion about reseating the chuck will do the job.

If that does not work I would not feel too bad if you have to replace the chuck as here is what Russ Massery had to say on my thread concerning the Delta17-965:

"Allen, Personally I would chuck that drill chuck. (no pun intended) Those chucks will last only a short time then will start giving you problems. Those stock drill chucks are pretty much junk. I'd replace it with a Jacob's when you get a chance. We have several of these drill presses at work. I don't think any of them have the stock chuck on them. I'd say get your use out then 'chuck it'. "

Allen

[Brian Parker]

I just ordered the Centering Alignment Pin from MLCS, hopefully I get it mid-week here and can test it out then. I'll try out a smaller bit tomorrow night but I'll have to keep the drift key idea in mind if this don't work.

[Les Spencer]

Brian,

The problem is probably either in the chuck or the tool. What type chuck do you have? Jacobs are usually the norm and good chucks. Sometimes not all the jaws in the chuck travel the same distance when tightening. You sometimes need to play with the tightening by going around the chuck with the chuck key and tightening and loosening to get the run-out corrected. I have a Jacobs with a 1/16" - 3/4" capacity. On larger bits I notice little run-out. On small bits I use a small Jacobs with a 0" to 1/4" capacity precision chuck.

As other have said, the bit could be bent. You can chuck up any round object to check for run-out. Some bits can get a gubber on the shank and cause run-out. File the gubber off.

The drift pin mention, is a narrow steel wedge that you use in the slot in the quill to remove the chuck. If you have problems and need to remove the chuck after making the above checks, take a .001 indicator and check the inside of the spindle where the chuck was for run-out. Be careful to not introduce flex into the spindle when checking. Just guessing I would want no more than a .001 run-out in the spindle on a new DP. The other poster who said he has .002 at 2" down probably has about .001 in the spindle.

If I were you, I'd be calling my vendor or the factory for some help. I doubt if they are going to send you a new DP without verifying where the problem lies first. But you need to take some of the suggestions and check it out for yourself so you can better communicate with Delta.

[David Fried]

I've always pulled down on my chuck with one hand while tapping it with a piece of wood on the other side to remove it. Never even occurred to me there was a tool for removing it! I feel silly. One more tool to add to my wish list. Never know what you will learn here. Thanks.


Dave Fried

[Allen Bookout]

Brian,

We are all waiting to find out what is going on. I know that you said at least mid week but I am watching daily and hopeing for the best.

Allen

[Allen Bookout]

Brian,

Did you ever find out what is going on with your drill press? I used mine yesterday and I really like it so far.

Allen

[Russ Massery]

Allan, I see you bought a new chuck. What kind did you purchase?

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I agree with Allen - spade bits are not precision tools, and are rarely perfectly straight. I suspect that they're manufactured by a forging or stamping process, rather than milling.

Try a Forstner bit before you disassemble your DP and possibly make things worse.

[Bob Dodge]

Hi Brian,

I have three drill-presses; a General 15", a Buffalo 15", and a Craftsman 32" radial drill-press. The Craftsman at one point, had some run-out, which at first I attributed to component quality of the d-p. Although this run-out was rather slight, it was annoying to say the least; especially when attempting to drill tight-tolerance holes in metal. No matter how carefully I tried to seat the drill-bit into that chuck, I ended up with a very slight travel in the bit, as I lowered the bit into the material.

The first time I really became aware of this run-out, was when I tried to drill some very small holes in mild steel, for some steel dowel pins. The dowel pins had to fit in the drilled holes, with a "friction fit". Tolerances had to be quite tight in order to achieve that goal. When I tried to insert the dowel pins, they simply fell through the "enlarged" holes. Very annoying, since this was a critical step in aligning two mating metal parts. I resigned myself to buying a better chuck, and it was then that I bought the General, and Buffalo drill-presses.

Well, one day I was looking inside the top-cover of that Craftsman press, and I noticed that there was a slight movement in the spindle-pulley. Very slight, but a distinct side-to-side movement. I reached inside the pulley cavity and tightened the nut that holds down the front pulley assembly, and that side-play disappeared; so did the run-out. Might be worth a peek.

Good luck, Bob

[Allen Bookout]

Allan, I see you bought a new chuck. What kind did you purchase?
Russ,

Actually the chuck that I bought I purchased last year some time for my old Buffalo. It is a CVS (England) from Victor Machinery and seems like OK quality but I am sure not up to Jacobs quality. It was a discontinued item so it was pretty cheap. I think that I am going to junk the old Buffalo and save the Leeson motor. Unfortunately the CVS chuck is a JT2 Short taper so of no value as far as using it on the Delta as I see that it has a JT3.

In looking around on the internet it looks like that the medium duty Jacobs, JT3, 1/8"-5/8" chucks are running between $100 and $125. Any idea who has good prices for these things?

I think that I will do as you suggested and use the supplied chuck untill it starts giving me trouble and then get a Jacobs.

Allen

[Brian Parker]

Sorry for the lack of update, I didn't recieve the centerting point until Thursday or Friday. That being said I would recomend someone to get the same centerting point as its alot straighter than any nails and it don't want to cut into the wood like a tip of a bit.

During the week I tried a few things like 4 penny nails, which the point isnt centerd on but are usually straight and also a small piece of all thread. I then decided to take a piece of 4x4 that was laying around and put it under the chuck and pulled down on it with alot of force. Its nice to see that the dolly which I attached it to is pretty solid and didn't even lift off the ground at all.

I got the chance today to test it out and it has alot less wobble, its pretty close to perfect.

Brian

[Allen Bookout]

Great news Brian. Thanks for the update and we all feel a lot better now. Allen

[Russ Massery]

Allan, I have a couple of extra jacob's chucks laying around. P.M. if your interested.