Really cool dovetails! How can i do this?

[Josh Goldsmith]

How would you do this? I saw this on some website a while ago and saved the pic. Just the other day i decided to give it a try but i am not too sure how to do it so i turn to the pros;) .

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5617/cooldovetails0hn.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cooldovetails0hn.jpg)

[Mark Stutz]

Josh,
I am fairly sure those were done with an Incra router table fence. I don't have one, but they look like the ones on display at the Woodcraft store. Hopefully someone who has one, and has done it will chime in.

Mark

[Greg Koch]

Mark's right, I think. Here's some info and pics, along with another link to the jig. Awesome looking!

I've got this one bookmarked for future "investments"... :D

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11496

Greg

[Michael Ballent]

Yep those are done with the Incra Jig.

[Dev Emch]

Actually those can be done anyway you wish. D4 jigs will also work. The trick is to divide and conquer. Start with the first board and cut the tails knowing your going to be short on the length. Then cut the corresponding section from your contrasting wood. This is a dovetail joint that lays flat. Both sections fit together in a plane instead of an orthogonal pair. Glue these contrasting ends onto the first board and trim to size. Now when you reposition in the jig, the trimmed ends determine where the second course will be cut. This determines the thickness of the contrasting band. Then run these tails like you always have with this joint being the orthogonal pair. Its easier than it looks.

Edit. The photo actually looks like there is a mitre in the corner. So lets update. 1). Cut the side board short and run a normal set of tails. Cut off a section of squared up contrasting wood and run the counter profile (negative tails and pins to the first board). 2). Glue these two items together and trim. 3). Run the second tails on this glue up board. 4). Repeat again with the lighter wood but on a different board. Trim off the tail end and glue onto the main side board. So now there is maple, walnut and once again maple. Next cut your mitre joint of choice. Use a lock mitre if your feeling under challanged. Repeat for all four sides as needed. Then glue the mitre/lock mitre jointers together to form the box.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Dev, I beg to differ. ;) I don't see that the joints are miters, but instead, they look like what Incra calls their "double dovetail". I do agree that the Incra isn't the only way to do them, but I don't see miter joints.

Josh, if you go to this page -- http://www.incra.biz/Library/HiResImages/index.htm -- and scroll through the pics on the bottom of the page, you can see several examples of fancy joints like this. I've got an Incra jig (many thanks to the FreeStuff Drawing here on SMC) but I haven't tried any of the dovetail tricks with it yet.

- Vaughn

[Andy London]

I make a lot of these and its the Incra jig, the corners are not mitered and not made the way dev explains but that might work, this is the INCRA Cornerpost Eagletail.

Andy

[Craig Zettle]

It is called a shadow through dovetail, and can be done on any quality jig (I do them on the AKEDA). I am only bringing this up because, as Dev said, this joint is not exclusive to Incra jigs.

[Tyler Howell]

So Lets se some Pix!!!!:mad: :mad:

[Jim Becker]

Here's some examples of inlayed dovetails at the Leigh Site (http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=1&section=15).

[John Lucas]

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/bchst-71.jpg

This picture is of an intermediate step. There is a complete how-to here: www.woodshopdemos.com/bchst-5.htm

[Ken Garlock]

Josh, the Incra dovetail video, available from Woodpecker, demonstrates how to make those inlaid joints.

[Josh Goldsmith]

So do you have to have the incra Jig to do them or should i just get the INCRA MASTER REFERENCE GUIDE & TEMPLATE LIBRARY. I just love the look of the double color dovetails! Thanks josh<H2>

</H2>

[Brad Olson]

You can also cut those by hand, although it does require a lot of skill...

Lets say you are making a maple box and you want ebony dovetail accents

Firs you cut and fit dovetails between a piece of ebony and the maple

Then you cut the ebony off flush with the maple board (or leave 1/16" overhand if you are doing tails first).

Then you proceed to cut 1/16" smaller dovetails in the board with cut-off ebony dovetails and fit these to your other maple board to complete the dovetails

The only real challenge to doing it by hand is to make everything look even and so requires a bit of paring.

You can also use this general procedure on any cheap half blind dovetail jig, and in this case you just lower the router bit by 1/16"

[Vaughn McMillan]

So do you have to have the incra Jig to do them or should i just get the INCRA MASTER REFERENCE GUIDE & TEMPLATE LIBRARY. I just love the look of the double color dovetails! Thanks josh

Josh, the Incra templates and stuff won't be of any help without the Incra jig. The templates just look like little flexible plastic rulers with oddball markings on them. They'd be virtually useless without the Incra jig.

- Vaughn

[Dev Emch]

I stand corrected. But I can still do this with a D4. The INCRA makes it easier but its not that off for a D4.

As to unconventional tails. Becareful! The strength of a dovetail comes its grain orientation. Make sure the grain is running proper or the thing will snap like a dry noodle!

[Dev Emch]

You can also cut those by hand, although it does require a lot of skill...

Lets say you are making a maple box and you want ebony dovetail accents

Firs you cut and fit dovetails between a piece of ebony and the maple

Then you cut the ebony off flush with the maple board (or leave 1/16" overhand if you are doing tails first).

Then you proceed to cut 1/16" smaller dovetails in the board with cut-off ebony dovetails and fit these to your other maple board to complete the dovetails

The only real challenge to doing it by hand is to make everything look even and so requires a bit of paring.

You can also use this general procedure on any cheap half blind dovetail jig, and in this case you just lower the router bit by 1/16"

AMEN BRUDA! And if you really want to get folks confused, do this with needle pins!

[richard poitras]

The same joint can be made also on the Jointech System. http://www.jointech.com/woodworking1.htm I looked at at the Incra at he wood shows and the Jointech and came home with the Jointech, I feel it is a much better system and a lot easyer to use, but dont get me wrong the Incra Jig is also a good system. Just some thing to consider if you are thinking about getting one.( Also good customer service)

[Barry O'Mahony]

I stand corrected. But I can still do this with a D4. The INCRA makes it easier but its not that off for a D4.

As to unconventional tails. Becareful! The strength of a dovetail comes its grain orientation. Make sure the grain is running proper or the thing will snap like a dry noodle!

Yea, I can see how you would do this on a D4. This is not so much a miter, but something close: both sides have tails, which fit over pins on a corner post. It's not clear from the picture which way the grain runs on the corner post, nor where the end grain is.

[Chris Barton]

Barry,

These are not miters, they are true dovetails with no corner blocks. I have both the D4 and the Incra ultra LS and I can tell you that you will spend a couple of months trying to get a double DT with the D4 right but, it will work first time out with the Incra.


Yea, I can see how you would do this on a D4. This is not so much a miter, but something close: both sides have tails, which fit over pins on a corner post. It's not clear from the picture which way the grain runs on the corner post, nor where the end grain is.

[Joe Judge]

I googled once for 'double dovetail' and found a step-by-step walk through for doing those kind of dove tails.

Of course, I lost the bookmark :-(

[Alan Burhop]

The same joint can be made also on the Jointech System. http://www.jointech.com/woodworking1.htm I looked at at the Incra at he wood shows and the Jointech and came home with the Jointech, I feel it is a much better system and a lot easyer to use, but dont get me wrong the Incra Jig is also a good system. Just some thing to consider if you are thinking about getting one.( Also good customer service)

I think the jointech is a better system also. That's why I am buying one.

[Matt King]

I'm don't mean to hijack the thread or anything like that, but I'm curious to know what makes the Jointech superior to the Incra system in y'all's minds? Are your setups on tablesaws or standalone router tables?

Thanks!

Matt

[Alan Burhop]

I am buying the sawtrain for my TS. THe reason being.

1) The Jointech sawtrain locks down from the front with one locking knob. On the Incra system, You need to tighten two screws on the back as well as the front to lock down the fence.

2) The jointech uses all metal parts. The Incra uses plastic.

3) The Jointech has a better fence design then the Incra.

4) the jointech encloses the leadscrew. The incras leadscrew is exposed.

5) jointech has an extension table that can also be used as an infeed or outfeed table.

[richard poitras]

Matt mine is a standalone router system ,that I had made the cabinet and got jointech"s fence, table top and lift system basicly the hole package with a 3 1/4 PG router (I would show pictures but dont know how to put them on the site yet, just got camera for x-mas ) I did not do the table saw fence becasue I have a beisemeyer fence on my saw now and very happy with it. but in general what Alan said about the jointech are all true, better bilt syestem and can do a lot more thing's with the fence and a lot more user friendly/ less of a learning curve / also this is just my view on the jointeck not trying to slam the Incra system

[Josh Goldsmith]

I think i might be missing something. How does using the Incra or the jointtech help you make these dovetails? I understand that they give you templates to help make these but i am curious on what the templates look like and how to use them? I really want to start making these boxes and adding some nice detail like the double dovetails. Thanks Josh

[Vaughn McMillan]

I think i might be missing something. How does using the Incra or the jointtech help you make these dovetails? I understand that they give you templates to help make these but i am curious on what the templates look like and how to use them? I really want to start making these boxes and adding some nice detail like the double dovetails. Thanks Josh
Can't help on the Jointech question, but in regards to the Incra system, the Incra jig allows you to move the router (or TS) fence in very exact increments -- something that's essential for making fancy joints like these. The templates show you exactly where (or how much) to move the fence for each cut.

A bit of advice...take small steps when learning difficult joinery like this. Even the guys using sophisticated equipment learned things in a gradient manner. I'd suggest getting comfortable with some of the more basic joints before trying the fancy stuff on an important project. DAMHIKT. ;)

- Vaughn

[Barry O'Mahony]

These are not miters, they are true dovetails with no corner blocks.I didn't say they were miters, just reminisent of them. I assumed there was a corner block based on Andy's response.

I wish the picture was better, so that it was easier to see how things were done.

I agree it would take alot of fussing to do this on the D4. 'have no experience with the Incra.

[Dev Emch]

Would the experts please explain this joint in greater detail?

After reviewing the photo, it appears that there is *NO* end grain showing in this corner block. Now that means one of two things. A). That the corner has a mitre joint or B). the grain runs vertically and the end grain is on the top. In either case, you will not have end grain showing on one side of the corner block.

But the grain runs horizontally in the section of tiger maple sideing as it should. You always want the long grain running with the long axis of the tail. But if the grain runs vertically in the end block as it appears to be, then you have created the weakest dovetail joint of all. The vertical orientation of the grain means that each of the tails and pins in the end block have short grain and no long grain. These tails and pins can just snap off.

Now have I missed something here?

[Vaughn McMillan]

Dev, I think you're right about the grain orientation of the end pieces. Like you say, it looks like the grain is running vertically, with the end grain at the top and bottom of the corner pieces. If this is indeed the case, you're also right about the joint not being very strong. I suspect they were going for show, not longivity. ;)

- Vaughn

[Phil Maddox]

My jointech fench with do those. There are many variations on the same theme - double dovetails, double double dovetails, double boxtails, etc.

Fairly easy to get decent results.

Good luck!

Phil

[Brad Olson]

Would the experts please explain this joint in greater detail?

After reviewing the photo, it appears that there is *NO* end grain showing in this corner block. Now that means one of two things. A). That the corner has a mitre joint or B). the grain runs vertically and the end grain is on the top. In either case, you will not have end grain showing on one side of the corner block.

But the grain runs horizontally in the section of tiger maple sideing as it should. You always want the long grain running with the long axis of the tail. But if the grain runs vertically in the end block as it appears to be, then you have created the weakest dovetail joint of all. The vertical orientation of the grain means that each of the tails and pins in the end block have short grain and no long grain. These tails and pins can just snap off.

Now have I missed something here?

I'm not sure exactly what you are refering to, but I am pretty sure that the sides of the box are dovetailed into corner posts (as opposed to being dovetailed into each other).

This obviously is not good for wood movement as it will tear itself apart, but I suspect you can get away with this on a small box.

I can't tell if there is end grain showing on the walnut or not.

[Jim Becker]

I agree it would take alot of fussing to do this on the D4. 'have no experience with the Incra.

One would think, but I remember a fellow who posted at Wood Online a couple years ago...his first dovetails with the D4 were inlayed and the results were spectacular. A "really good manual" does make a difference. Now, I haven't tried this, of course, so I don't know exactly what is involved. But it must be doable for normal people who try!

[Chris Barton]

OK, in a way trying to explain the "double dovetail" is like trying to tell someone what chocolate tastes like if they have never had it. But, if you are interested you can go to this website and see how it is done, step by step:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/incra-jb.htm

[Scott D Johnson]

Here's a link to another thread on this site regarding dovetails and the Incra Jig.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27491

[Bert Johansen]

Josh,
These can also be made on the JoinTech System, which is similar to the Incra.
Bert

[tod evans]

personally i think machine cut dovetails have become so common that they are mundane regardless of how they`re constructed. there`s nothing i like seeing any more than nice fine hand-cut pins layed out to fit the drawer....02 tod

[Jim Becker]

personally i think machine cut dovetails have become so common that they are mundane regardless of how they`re constructed. there`s nothing i like seeing any more than nice fine hand-cut pins layed out to fit the drawer....02 tod

That can often be true, Tod. For drawers and the like for kitchen cabinetry, I don't mine the "uniformity" that virtually all dovetailed drawers have, but for fine furniture, it bothers me.

But that's also why I like my D4. There are many times when I just plain need to use a jig for time reasons (not to mention skill...) and at least I can keep things a lot more interesting with the variable spacing and versatility relative to size available with it. Yes, I can't get the "micro" pins with the jig (directly), but at least it gives me something that isn't mundane. I do anticipate using more hand-cut dovetails in my work as I learn how to do them better, but undoubtedly continue to use the jig for drawer work most of the time. What you will not see, however...is "perfectly" spaced 1/2" wide pins on my HB dovetails in my furniture.

Now to the subject of this thread...I don't think that machined is a bad thing when it comes to the inlaid dovetails. In fact, it probably enhances them as geometrically, they need to be pretty precise to avoid "eye" issues.

[Barry O'Mahony]

personally i think machine cut dovetails have become so common that they are mundane regardless of how they`re constructed. there`s nothing i like seeing any more than nice fine hand-cut pins layed out to fit the drawer....02 todIt seems to me one of the consequences of this is that pins are getting smaller and smaller. It used to be that dovetail jigs were only capable of joints with symmetric pins and tails. Hand-cut could be asymmetric, and thus not look machine-cut.

Then jigs like the Leigh hit the market, and machined DT's could be made to look "hand-made" with variable-spaced pins and tails. This led to a "war of escalation" of sorts: as a result, alot of hand cut joints now seem to be made with pins very small, in order to be smaller than the smallest ones that can be made on a jig. Also, the scribe line used to set the depth of the cut line for the pins and tails now, rather than being sanded away, now seems to be used as a prominant design feature.

[Saul Harris]

I own the Jointech fence system. It is like the Incra incremental fence system in function (but in my never-to-be-humble opinion, I think the Jointech is easier to use than the Incra). Both machines are capable of doing double dovetails and double box joints (with the two-toned inlay look you said you like). Like several have said in this thread, there are several ways to make them; the incremental fence systems with the respective templates just make it a lot less work.

[Dev Emch]

personally i think machine cut dovetails have become so common that they are mundane regardless of how they`re constructed. there`s nothing i like seeing any more than nice fine hand-cut pins layed out to fit the drawer....02 tod

I was refraining from making a similar comment. Nothing screams out louder "ROU-TAR JIG" than these type of joints. Why do you think some guys love to do needle pins and variable size interlaced needle pins? You can even get a video from LN teaching you how to do these. And the rou-tar is no where to be seen!

[Dev Emch]

I'm not sure exactly what you are refering to, but I am pretty sure that the sides of the box are dovetailed into corner posts (as opposed to being dovetailed into each other).

This obviously is not good for wood movement as it will tear itself apart, but I suspect you can get away with this on a small box.

I can't tell if there is end grain showing on the walnut or not.

Brad...
You just made a comment regarding wood movement. Bravo! Why do you think the wood will move the way you think it will move? With answer in hand, go back and review the direction of the grain within the tail elements of the corner post. Now do you see what I was saying? As to the walnut element. This is not really an issue as this portion of the wood may simply wind up in compression between the side and the corner post. It has no significant tail structures. But the corner post does. Now if the corner post is a half lap tail, then you can get some extra strength and I guess one could live with it. But all in all, I am a traditionalist and actually prefer needle pins when possible and practical.

[Chris Barton]

In the double dovetail the "corner post" as its being called is HB dovetailed into the mating element. I have been using an Incra jig for over 5 years and have never seen a joint fail. Most wood movement occurs across the grain and with so little wood added to the double DT to provide the color contrast I doubt there is even measurable movement at the joint.

Hand cut dovetails is also something I do. They are nice and very traditional but, I would be willing to bet my next pay check that if the furniture makers of 200 years ago had a choice today they would use what would make the most money and get the job done fast and without errors. But, the great thing about this is that anyone can chose to use the method of their choice. We will be looking forward to the pictures.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Josh. I would say that the corner blocks are running in the same grain direction as the sides. To make the joint you would cut your front and rear pieces extra long. Now cut them to length [trimming several inches from each end, save these]. Now cut your tails on the front and rear maple pieces. Make mating tails on 2 pieces of walnut [contrasting wood, grain running same way] It is a mating tail [not pin] because the joint will lay flat and not be a corner. Now saw off the walnut leaving about a 1/8" or so. Re-dovetail the end to create the walnut inlay piece. Now dovetail your saved maple scraps from each end [so the grain is continuous] with the same tail to tail flat joint technique. Now cut off the maple extensions leaving enough that it looks like a half lap type joint. At this point the front and the rear piece will be treated like a normal rectangular board with square ends. Round 2. Now take your sides and cut tails on them. Mate them with tail to tail orientation [flat joint] to the contrasting wood. Cut the contrasting wood off square and then re cut your tail [just like the front pieces] . Now simply half lap dovetail the sides into the end grain of the front and rear pieces. Hope this helps Peter

[Dev Emch]

Hi Josh. I would say that the corner blocks are running in the same grain direction as the sides. To make the joint you would cut your front and rear pieces extra long. Now cut them to length [trimming several inches from each end, save these]. Now cut your tails on the front and rear maple pieces. Make mating tails on 2 pieces of walnut [contrasting wood, grain running same way] It is a mating tail [not pin] because the joint will lay flat and not be a corner. Now saw off the walnut leaving about a 1/8" or so. Re-dovetail the end to create the walnut inlay piece. Now dovetail your saved maple scraps from each end [so the grain is continuous] with the same tail to tail flat joint technique. Now cut off the maple extensions leaving enough that it looks like a half lap type joint. At this point the front and the rear piece will be treated like a normal rectangular board with square ends. Round 2. Now take your sides and cut tails on them. Mate them with tail to tail orientation [flat joint] to the contrasting wood. Cut the contrasting wood off square and then re cut your tail [just like the front pieces] . Now simply half lap dovetail the sides into the end grain of the front and rear pieces. Hope this helps Peter

I just dont see this happening. If the grain in the corner block ran the same direction as that in the sides, then one set of tails would be correct in that the grain runs with the tail and not against it.

But one side of the corner block will exhibit end grain and from the photos, it does not. Could someone who understands this with greater clarity please inform us old foggies how this corner block works? If the grain in the corner block is running parallel to the grain in the sides (which is should), then the joint must be mitred. IF the joint is not mitred, then the grain runs orthogonal to the grain in the sides and you have a problem.

Wood movement is not going to be that much of a deal here even though your glueing against this movement. There simply is not enough movement in this small piece to make a major difference. I am more concerned with the fact that the tails in the corner block have no long grain strength. You can snap them off as the grain runs 90 degrees out of wack from where it should run. As I mentioned, this may be resolved by the fact that these tails are not tails but sockets. That the tails are half lap (more modern term.. half blind) dovetails.

The design is definintely trick. But I wonder how strong it would be compared to a traditional dovetail joint?

[Josh Goldsmith]

I am a newbie in woodworking but in a small box why would you need alot of strength in regards the which way the grain is going? Will someone please inform me. I do understand that in some cases a strong joint is the best idea becuase of the usage factor and i also can see that a stronger joint will last longer but is that all? Thanks josh

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Dev. If you enlarge the picture you can see the grain running parallel on the corner block on the left side of the front. You can also see that the grain is darker on the right side [not the front] or you can just go to the link provided by John Lucas and see it actually being done. Peter

[Jim Becker]

I am a newbie in woodworking but in a small box why would you need a lot of strength in regards the which way the grain is going?

Josh...get comfortable. There is NO problem using this decorative joinery in the type of projects you are talking about. Like any project, insure that your material is at consistent MC to minimize or eliminate any further chance of movement issues. (A piece of dripping wet wood mated with a piece of bone dry material wouldn't be a good idea...anywhere... ;) )

[Scott D Johnson]

I understand all the pros and cons of the above mentioned posts. But as for me I want my woodworking (seeing as it is only a hobby) to be fun. Experimenting with decorative dovetails using a jig (or any dovetails using a jig) teaches me a lot about woodworking and using my machines accurately. I realize doing them "handcut" is better practice, but going the neanderthal way is a pretty big time commitment.

I like making small boxes. It is great practice for a newbie and doesn't take a lot of material cost. I am hoping ("pie in the sky") that the principles I am learning with small "more decorative" projects translate to someday being able to make more "substantial furniture joinery".

As far as making sure that the joint is appropriate, I often refer to Tage Frid's books as a "reality check" if necessary. He uses very traditional/time proven techniques.

Again my comments come from a "newbie"/non-professional point of view.

[Ryan Ricks]

I've done a few of the double dovetails with my Incra system. (I have not tried the double-double joints like the one shown) It is a good way to get to know your system, and understand how the joints are cut. And it is fun to do a box using those joints. It's amazing when you put the finish on boxes with multiple wood types, and gives you a chance to play with contrasting woods.

While I would not use one of the joints to do a large chest, for jewelry boxes (or other small boxes) it can be a lot of fun. Of course my Incra setup does not work so well for large boxes anyhow.

For me, the fun think about these joints is learning the process. I would like to learn how to hand-cut dovetails, and I will probably give it a try. But in all honesty, had I not had the Incra system and used it to learn about the joints, I would probably not have that desire to learn how to hand-cut.

-Ryan

[Saul Harris]

After extensive experience with the Jointech fence system - first on my stand-alone router table and later mounted on my table saw as a Saw Train system - the Jointech fence system is better made and much simpler to learn/master than its competition. I agree with the other posts that the components that make up the Jointech positioner and fence are better than the other guys. If anyone who has the Jointech system - or is buying the Jointech - is interested in a set of plans to build a dovetailed box (it's basic), ask Jointech for their new CD-ROM with the plans entitled "Making Your First Dovetail Box". I know the guy who helped write them (:D ) and they will substantially flatten the learning curve. The Jointech templates are much easier to use than the other guys also. If you can't get your hands on the FREE CD-ROM, let me know and I will email them to you in either .pdf or .doc format.

[Saul Harris]

I have made countless double dovetails. (Some of you know me and know why I have made so many.) There are two ways to make a double dovetail using an incremental fence like the Jointech or Incra. One is the way they are demonstrated at the shows and that is as a sliding dovetail. The second method is as an inlay similar to the one in the photo. When you do it as a slider, there IS endgrain visible in the finished product. That endgrain is visible on the front and back of the box/drawer... the pin board. The tail board is always going to show the face grain. When you do what I refer to as the inlay method - which is what the photo shows - it is a multi-step process. All of the cuts are made with material standing on end clamped to the push fixture that attaches to the fence. It is cut the same way you cut your test pieces to make certain your dovetail bit is set to the correct height. You join the pin and tail cuts (usually contrasting materials) and then, after the glue sets up, cut pins and tails on the glued-up pieces to mate them in a traditional half-blind style. When you are done, you have a double dovetail on both faces of the corner. And there is still no endgrain showing... it is all facegrain.

I know words can get confusing but it is really quite simple. Making a drawer with double dovetails on all four corners using the sliding dovetail method - again, as done at the shows - using the Jointech fence takes all of about 8-10 minutes. Using template #17 and a 1/2"-14 degree dovetail bit you can do it.

[Scott D Johnson]

I am sure the Jointech system and even the "higher end" Incra jigs are well worth the money.
But if you just want to try your hand at decorative dovetails, please consider the $60 Incra Jig from Rockler and Perry McDaniel's book Incra Jig Projects and Techniques and the Incra Jig Master Templates. It does have an 8" capacity, but again, this would be to "try your hand" at it.
Also I know the fit and finish of the Harbor Freight Dovetail jig is not up to the level of Porter Cable, Leigh etc. But if you just want to to "half blind dovetails" (with a max capacity of 12"). Take a look http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42821
This jig regularly goes on sale for $29.99 (The instructions are worthless, so download a better set of instructions here
http://www.woodstockinternational.com/dovetail.aspx)

Or the Porter Cable Model #4210 gets very good reviews starting for around $100.

[Josh Goldsmith]

when i get a little more money i think i will buy the jointtech setup. I can't wait to get it so i can start making some awesome little boxes. When i finally get the setup and i make my first box i will be sure to post the pics!:D Thanks for the relpies