Come all ye carvers and drooolllll...

[Louis Bois]

I recently scored a lovely little gem of a carver's vise (or "chops" if you will) and thought I'd share it with all you great tool folks.

I've been looking for one of these lovely vises for a long time without success. I eventually built myself one and have been using it for most of my carving projects.

A friend of mine mentioned that he saw something similar to my vise on the web but it looked old...and beat up...and that maybe I should check it out! I guess our definitions of "beat up" differ quite radically.

Once I laid eyes on this classic tool, I couldn't resist pursuing it until it was mine...all mine!!!! Boy, am I glad I made the effort. The patina on the wood of this thing is absolutely stunning...it's been used and loved so well that the wood feels like soapstone! It must be seen to be fully appreciated. Therefore, I've included tons of pics for your perusal...(there ya go Tyler!!!). There's only one missing piece on the vise, namely the cover plate that sits on the cheeks over the rear portion of the vise (covers the screw). There's also a very thin rabbet over the slot that holds the mounting screw which could have sported a cover as well. Both probably went M.I.A. many moons ago as the exposed areas where these covers should be demonstrate a similar patina to the rest of the wooden areas of the vise.

I'm trying to get more information with regards to its date of manufacture, but am mostly coming up blank. It was fabricated at the "Forge Royale" in Paris and has my initials (LB) on the embedded brass plaque...nice try, but I think it actually stands for "Louis de Bourbonne"...hinting at the king of France...hence the "Royale" in "Forge Royale.

The only information I've found with regards to the Forge Royale was on the MWTCA's website. They do annual reprints of classic publications for their members...and #19 (July 1981) is about the Royale Forge of Paris. Is there a member of the MWTCA here that may have a copy of this reprint? It's not available from the MWTCA as they only print enough copies to satisfy the current year's membership. Aside from that, I guess I'll hit the local reference library and see what comes up.

In any event, sorry to bore you...and on to the pics!!!!!

Cheers,

Louis

[Louis Bois]

A few additional Photos....

[Mike Wenzloff]

That is just too cool, Louis!

I've tried hunting one down in decent shape. Years ago. Yours is what I would call in excellent shape. Oh the stories it must hold.

Thank you so much for taking such wonderful pictures, too. I just might have to try making one.

Again, wonderful, wonderful find!

Take care, Mike

[tod evans]

sweet! and hardly broken in, could that be the original leather on the jaws? .02 tod

[Louis Bois]

Mike, let me know if you need some dimensional information or construction details when you do decide to build one...

...and yes, Tod, the 1/4" thick leather does appear to have been born with the vise. I still can't believe I found this thing...

[tod evans]

louis, i too would be interested in measurements and details, if you wouldn`t mind? thanks, tod

[Louis Bois]

No problem Tod. I'm actually planning on making proper drawings of this thing. I was going to create a website last year to post plans that I've made of older furniture pieces, but alas, the demands of a "now 2 year-old"...where does the time go...have made it almost impossible.

Perhaps I'll start posting them here in the design forum for criticism and comments.

Louis

addendum...here's an example of one of the "tools" I'm working on...a "Chevalet de Marqueterie" that I modelled...based on Pierre Ramond's plans...

[tod evans]

louis, thanks! i have a 17month old son who loves to "help" so i know what you`re dealing with..tod

[Mike Wenzloff]

Wow, great Louis!

Width, height, length is probably all I need. Everything else can be extrapolated.

A 2 year old and a 17 month old--my hats off to both of you for getting anything done!

My youngest is 24. Middle is 25. Oldest is 31.

Take care, Mike

[tod evans]

louis, the french is impressive but we call it a donkey here in the sticks:) .02 tod

[Tyler Howell]

Thanks Louis,
Picture Police Seal of Approval.
Forgive my Naïveté Is this a collectable or a user??

[Louis Bois]

Tod, it's actually a "mule-for-cutting-woodbits".

Tyler, yes and yes. This vise has many years of service left...in fact, it's still in its infancy. Fortunately, it's fallen in the right hands to see it last into another generation...here's hoping my son doesn't pawn it for some computer game....:eek:

[Pam Niedermayer]

Very cool, Louis, I've also spent some time in the past looking for chops, but without success. Your vise looks like it would equate with a regular tail vise functionally. Please tell my why I'm wrong.

Pam

[Louis Bois]

Hi Pam,

The main advantage over the tail vise is its flexibility and range of motion. The vise is essentially mounted on a dedicated narrow bench (although I suppose it could be mounted in a doghole on a standard bench) and can swivel full circle to help you carve a piece from all angles, whereas a traditional tail vise has a limited range of motion. It also has a clearance advantage with its tall, narrow jaws...this would help to clamp pieces that may be curved.

I mainly use it to carve rocking horses as it can hold an almost completed horse's belly and have the legs hanging on either side of the bench (the narrow dedicated bench)...this would be all but impossible to do with a traditional tail vise.

...not sure this makes sense...guess I'll have to post some pics of the vise in use.

addendum...picture the vise sitting atop this contraption...there should be a hole in the middle of the green square to accept the vise...

[tod evans]

pam, and louis, sorry for chipping in my .02 ..but the beauty of a small vice of this sort is not having to run around the bench to attack the wood at the correct angle. sure a tail vice, or patternmakers, or parrot vice will hold the work but they are generally built into or mounted onto the bench. a vice like this offers enough stability to carve yet permits the carver to move the vice as well as the workpiece in the vice....02 tod

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks, Louis and Tod. The chops I was looking for did have the swivelling ability, so am glad to hear this beautiful example does, too. That was the missing piece of info gleaned from the photos. Louis, is the above bench design what you plan to build for this vise? Or why not make the vise the whole bench with a pedastal base?

Pam

[Louis Bois]

Pam, I've already built the base as illustrated above...I was using it with a carver's chops that I built. It works quite well, although I must admit that I rarely use the seat shown and tend to stand on the base instead. This design allows the bodyweight to be the stabilizer while working on a piece.

I do like the idea of building a special pedestal...I'm always open to suggestions!!!

I'll post a few pics of my current setup once I clean things around it to be able to get a clear shot.

...and I can fully understand your previous confusion...have another look at the second set of photos...second from the left...it shows the slot that allows a securing bolt to hold the vise to a bench. A wingnut or handled nut acts as a quick release to reposition the vise.

[Louis Bois]

These are a few mediocre pics of my current setup...with other stuff piled on for good measure as I finish my son's room remodel. As you can see, the wee bench is a fairly dedicated setup for carving...YIKES!! Is that rust on my side plates?!? The vise in the photos below was built with shop scraps as is evident from all the different wood species used. It has served me well these past few years and will probably be donated to another woodworker as I put my "new" old vise into service.

p.s. note the "high-tech" plane storage above the vise...:eek::rolleyes:


Mike & Tod, here are a few dimensions of the old vise...
Overall length = 19 1/4"
Width = 4 1/2"
Height to tip of jaws = 8 1/2"

a few more details...
the base is 2 1/4" thick
the screw is 15/16" dia. x 14"lg w/o handle
the jaws are 2 3/8" thick + 1/4" leather pads
the steel is hand forged and the average thickness is 3/16"
the cheeks are 5 3/4"lg x 3 1/4" high x 7/8" thick

[Dan Forman]

Louis---That's really an impressive vise, thanks for showing it.

Dan

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks, Louis, very impressive. I was thinking along the lines of a grinder type pedastal stand, flanges on the bottom and top with holes for bolts, strong metal cylinder between, with probably a sleeved cylinder/post for the vise, should probably provide access all around.

Pam

[Louis Bois]

Funny you should mention that Pam...as I was envisioning some old dentistry equipment...something with a heavy base and cylindrical jacking mechanism...maybe even a foot pedal of some sort:rolleyes:

Then again...I could make something out of wood and throw a few heavy bricks on the base!:D

Mike and Tod, since you expressed interest in dimensional information on the vise, I'll give you guys first crack at playing around with a fully measurable, interactive 3D model that I made using Solidworks. Please PM me with your e-mail addresses and I'll send it along. The file is rather large, around 2.5 Mb, but there is a workaround solution if your mail clients can't handle that.

Here are a few pics to whet your appetites.

[tod evans]

louis, sent you a p/m, thank you! it`ll be a year or so before i can build one but it will get done. .02 tod

[Louis Bois]

Check your e-mail Tod...disregard the first one...made a mistake.

[tod evans]

just did! pretty cool stuff! me being a computer moron it`ll take me a while to figure out how to drive the program:) thank you louis, tod

[Mike Wenzloff]

That is just really nice, Louis! Than you for the hard part of the work.

I'll let you know how I make out.

Take care, Mike

[Louis Bois]

Mike, I pm'd you this morning...let me know how it works out!

[Louis Bois]

This last photo depicts what I assume is missing from the vise (based on photos I've seen, an example of which is depicted in the Lee Valley Calendar - April 2005). I only include this as a form of completion to this thread.) There should be a cover spanning the top of the moving jaw - over the cheeks, as well as a cover seated in the rabbet of the mounting screw slot in the base.

I will have proper plans available in the near future for those that may be interested in tackling one of these...so Pam, if you'd rather build one instead of finding one in the wild, please let me know.

Cheers,

[Tom Sontag]

This is one of the coolest threads I have seen in a long time. I am quite the carving neophyte and was unaware of these 'chops' existing, so thank you Louis for opening these eyes. And the patina and emblem and nice photos! Excellent job all around.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...There should be a cover spanning the top of the moving jaw - over the cheeks, as well as a cover seated in the rabbet of the mounting screw slot in the base.

I will have proper plans available in the near future for those that may be interested in tackling one of these...so Pam, if you'd rather build one instead of finding one in the wild, please let me know.

Thanks, Louis. Funny, I found a bunch of Carlyle Lynch plans for cheap and they arrived yesterday. In the bunch is plans for a carver's bench, which is pretty cool. I'd been thinking of putting a leg vise on the main bench for holding chair seats and the like, but now I'm thinking that chops on a carving bench might be a better idea. Plus, I've got the hardware for a drafting table that I converted to a computer table without hardware, which I might use on the carver's bench to adjust the angle of attack. While I'd love the LV mechanism, it's a little dear for my pocket book. So I like the idea of building my own chops, especially since it's likely I'd need taller jaws for chair seats.

As to that cover for the mounting screw rebate, looks to me like the rear mounting screw plate should be extended to sit in the rebate to help keep the rear jaw moving straight. Not so?

Pam

Carver's bench at Joel's
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=LL-C01&Category_Code=CLLO

[Louis Bois]

Hi Tom, I sent you a PM this morning...

Pam, if you send me your e-mail address, I'll send you an interactive model of the vise for your perusal. I think the photo above is a little misleading. It will all become clear when you see the model.

I think your approach with the carver's bench may be a good one...unless you want to go with a twin screw front vise for holding the chair seats, like Mike Dunbar does for his Windsor chairs.

There are so many ways to hold a piece of wood 3 feet off the floor...boggles the mind!!! :)

[Leif Hanson]

Truly outstanding, Louis!

Hope it's OK with Rob Lee - but here's a photo of a similar vise they have from their 2001/02 Main Woodworking Catalog Cover:

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/extras/2001.jpg

Thanks for posting, Louis!

Leif

[Louis Bois]

Leif, that's the exact vise depicted in their 2005 calendar!!! It's the inspiration I needed to start digging deeper to find information on these vises.

The "Rocking Horse Shop" in the UK sells plans, kits and finished vises of a simplified version of a carver's chops. I used these plans as a basis for the first vise I built. It's worth a look for those that are interested.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...There are so many ways to hold a piece of wood 3 feet off the floor...boggles the mind!!! :)

And then you add the possibilities on the floor... :)

Pam

[Louis Bois]

For those who are interested in a FREE set of plans to build the vise depicted in these pages, follow this link:


http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/

[Roger Nixon]

Louis, thank you for preparing and sharing all this.

[Louis Bois]

My pleasure Roger. It's great to be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.

Cheers,

Louis