Newbie raised panel bit question

[Paul C.]

Hi all. I'm buying a raised panel bit set soon and could use some advice. I was wondering if I should get one with a backcutter or not. I've been looking at the Freud 2+2 three piece sets on Amazon and there is a $50 difference between the set with a backcutter and the set without a backcutter.I'll be using it for building cabinet doors,furniture building and raised panels for my dining room walls. Also, is there a favorite profile(ogee,cove ect.) for my intended projects. Thanks.

[Norman Hitt]

Paul, I highly prefer NOT to use a bit with a back cutter. I find my results are MUCH better when I make the Back side cut in a separate operation with a Rabbet bit. It's easier to fine tune the thickness to fit the groove this way, and also, if the panel has ANY bow in it, it REALLY affects the thickness of the "Tenon" part of the cut which leads to a poor fit into the rails and stiles.' (sometimes it's too thick to even go into the slot, and other times it is too thin, and will Rattle and shift around). I don't buy bits with backcutters anymore.

[tod evans]

welcome paul!

[Charles McCracken]

Welcome to the group Paul.

I hate sound contrary to Norman but I disagree with his take on tongue thickness. The RP w/BC is the best way to get a consistent tongue thickness (and can be easily adjusted with shims if necessary). If the panel has some bow the profile height will vary, not the tongue thickness. Use plenty of feather boards to keep the wood flat against the table and this shouldn't be an issue.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul........first.....Welcome to the Creek! Wade right in the water's fine! We like photos.


On a different note, SawMillCreek is a real name site. As stated in the Terms Of Service, all members must register using their real first and last names. Would you please send Jackie Outten a PM here at SMC with the your last name and correct this please!

Again.......Welcome to the Creek.

[frank shic]

paul, backcutters RULE!!! they save you an ENTIRE STEP in the otherwise tedious (albeit not utterly unejoyable!) process of constructing a frame and panel assembly. if the price puts you off, check out the router bits at woodline.com. if i could do it over again, i'd love to get my hands on the freud 2+2 set so that i could eliminate YET ANOTHER STEP: sanding!!! ;)

[Matt Tawes]

Of course if you have a planer just make your panels 5/8" thickness before routing and there is no need to worry about back cutting.

[Jim Hager]

Welcome to the creek Paul. I make probably 60 rp doors a month maybe more and never have used a back cutter. I plane all my panels down to 5/8" thickness before raising the panels on a shaper with one of several different cutters that I have. I agree that the back cutter will give you a very consistant tongue thickness which is important but it is however unnecessary to have the back profile. If you will plane the panels down to 5/8 and raise the panels so that your tongue fits with a snug slip fit into the rails and styles you will have just what you need without worrying about the back cutter. A back cutter will complicate things if your panels are not dead flat too.

[Ralph Barhorst]

Make sure that the panel bit will fit in your router. I purchased a bit set and later found that the diameter of the panel cutting bit was larger than the opening in my router. This, of course, made it very difficult to use :(

[Keith July]

Welcome Paul,
I have the Freud 2+2 cutters (with and without the b/c) they do a great job.

Keith

[Jon Farley]

I have done it both ways with my router table and I can say that I like the results better when I don't use the back cutter and instead just make a rabbet on the backside during a separate step. For one I get neater results and a better fit, and two, I think it is easier on the router (and me)as those extra cutters mean even more wood being removed on each pass.

BTW, why is 5/8" the magic thickness for raised panels?

[Matt Tawes]

Hi John,

5/8" thickness provides the correct thickness regardless of raised panel profile to fit in your rails/stiles without being proud of the front and gives a flat panel effect on the back. If using 3/4" thick stock and without back-cutting, rabetting or raising the backside the panel would protrude beyond the rail/stiles on the front.
Actually, historically speaking panels often ranged from 3/4" thickness (raised on both sides and centered) or in many shaker style cabinets the panel was raised and the raised portion turned to the inside leaving a flat panel effect on the outside.

[Jon Farley]

Thanks Matt. You taught me something. Just so I understand you correctly, when using 3/4" rails and stiles, then using a 5/8" panel raised only on the front and mounted flush with the rails/stiles, you would be left with a flat panel on the rear that is recessed 1/8" from the back of the rails/stiles. Is this correct? Thanks again...Jon

[Saul Harris]

After reading this entire thread, the one point no one has addressed is HIS ROUTER!! No one has asked if he has a router bigger than a 1-1/4 HP Craftsman special purchase model. And is it variable speed?

I - like others who have jumped on this thread - make my raised panels using 3/4" rails and stiles and 5/8" panels. I own both RP bits with and without the back cutter. The backcutters typically add a radius to the transition from the tongue to the flat area of the panel. No problem.

If his router is small, he can't use a RP bit with a backcutter... he simply won't be able to make the cut in the material in a single pass. Now, he can use a separate backcutter bit to do the same thing but he will have to determine the correct height of the bit to get the correct thickness tongue.

There are so many different aspects to consider in choosing a RP bit set. But the first and foremost thing to consider when deciding to buy with or without an integrated backcutter is the router itself. Get that out of the way first and you won't have to consider it again.

Measuring twice and still screwing it up...
-Saul

[Charles McCracken]

John,

A raised panel in 5/8" stock would be recessed in the back by app. 1/8" and the front would be in the same plane as the door frame. You need a raised panel cutter designed for 5/8" stock in order to get the full profile reveal.

[James A. Wolfe]

I seem to be in the minority here. I have a horizontal router table and raise my panels using my biggest router. I have used a 1-1/2 HP PC router in this setup and since I'm able to keep the RPM's up with the smaller diameter cutter, it whizzes through nearly as fast as the 3+ HP model. As far as the backside cut, I'm firmly in the plane to 5/8" camp unless I get a panel that's too big for my planer. Then I just chuck up a straight cutter and have after it.

Jim

[Paul C.]

Thanks for all the information guys. Great site you all have here. I think I'll go with the raised panel cutter without a backcutter. That way I can justify buying a planer to get my stock down to 5/8. I've sure come to realize woodworking is not a cheap hobby especially when you're first starting out. Thanks again.

[Chris Giles]

Paul,
One last word of caution-try to use a table router with a proper fence for cutting these panels if you have one. A panel bit is a pretty big hunk of metal spinning very fast on that shaft and could be a recipe for disaster if you are not used to them. If you don't have a table routing set-up, make an oversized base for the router that will ride comfortably on the workpiece and keep your hands a safe distance from the cutter. Safety is paramount on an operation like this and deserves some serious consideration before you ever turn on the machine. Best of luck.

[Matt Tawes]

Hey Charles,

No offense but I have many panel bits (Whiteside, Jesada, Inifinty,MLCS, and Freud) and unfortunately Freud is the only one that does not leave the corect reveal when using a 5/8" thick panel as the one I have will only work with 3/4" thick stock and it then needs to be backcut. Otherwise the 3 wing cutter by Freud is fantastic in the cut that it gives. I never specifically looked for panel bits that would work with 5/8" thick stock when I bought the others.

[Jerry Olexa]

A backcutter does not allow you to gently raise your bit for each pass when removing large amounts of wood in a panel. I like to do it later when panel is completed.

[Jon Farley]

[quote=Chris Giles]Paul,
One last word of caution-try to use a table router with a proper fence for cutting these panels if you have one.quote]

"Try to use a router table!?!?" For safety reasons I would think you have to!

[Charles McCracken]

A backcutter does not allow you to gently raise your bit for each pass when removing large amounts of wood in a panel. I like to do it later when panel is completed.
Jerry,

You can get the same effect by setting the bit to the final height and using the fence to limit the cut for each pass.

[Charles McCracken]

Hey Charles,

No offense but I have many panel bits (Whiteside, Jesada, Inifinty,MLCS, and Freud) and unfortunately Freud is the only one that does not leave the corect reveal when using a 5/8" thick panel as the one I have will only work with 3/4" thick stock and it then needs to be backcut. Otherwise the 3 wing cutter by Freud is fantastic in the cut that it gives. I never specifically looked for panel bits that would work with 5/8" thick stock when I bought the others.
Matt,

Unlike the others you mentioned we offer cutters for either 5/8" or 3/4" stock. If you have the one for 3/4" and use it for 3/4" you will not have to backcut and the panel will be app. 1/8" proud of the frame. Some offer cutters that are only for 5/8" stock (Infinity is one of these) and others have cutters that are supposed to do both thicknesses (like Whiteside). The latter type works okay but the profile changes drastically between the two thicknesses since some make a deeper step from the face and others add or lose an extra profile detail. 3 distinct ways of making bits so I guess it comes down to a decision of which type works best for the individual.

[Fred Voorhees]

Jerry,

You can get the same effect by setting the bit to the final height and using the fence to limit the cut for each pass.

Exactly what I do. Never presented a problem.