Shopsmith Mark V Question

[David Hall]

I am writing with this question as I am at a very critical stage in my life...my wife has given me the go ahead for the woodshop. We are currently building a home and I have had the garage wired with several extra 110 outlets to support the tools I will be filling it with. I thought about 220, but decided I could add it later if needed. A family friend, who just recently posted a beautiful table on the Sawmill Creek site, recommended the forums as a great place to gather knowledge. My first posting asks for your help in deciding between a Shopsmith Mark V or traditional power tools for the woodshop. Space in my garge will be somewhat limited as my wife wants to park at least one car inside, but that still leaves me one whole side plus about an extra five feet (where the side door is). I priced out the Rigid tool line at Home Depot and found that the Mark V does appear to be somewhat more economical because of the lathe. I also know that I will still have to buy the router and build a router table regardless of the choice I make. I enjoy building toys, furniture, and who knows what else. For a first time woodshop what choice would you make? If you went with separate tools, what would be the first five you would buy? Thank you for your help.

[Tyler Howell]

Welcome to the creek Dave. Great folks here.

Shop Smith does a lot of stuff but not many real well. There are some very loyal SS groupies that have produced Fine WW projects. I would suggest :


220 now. It's cheaper when you build. At least pull the wire.
Start to research table saws in this forum. There are many great suggestions.
Buy as you need an Item.
You can save space by mounting your router in your TS extension

[Garry Smith]

I agree with Tylor. I have had several Shopsmiths old and newer models and non of them have been what I would call a good machine. My advice is go with indivdual machines. Your life will be much easier.
Garry

[Dave Lehnert]

I was able to teach myself woodworking on a ShopSmith. The tool is very well built. Made in Dayton Ohio. You will never have to replace it. A lot of the SS you see around are very old. Some from the 1950’s one feature you will like is the variable speed control. It comes in handy on the jointer. Not sure why they have not added this feature to stand alone tools. Never have I been sorry I purchased it. The key to your question is space. Stand alone tools will fill a garage quick. Some will complain about the change over time on the SS from one tool to the next but it does not take any longer than a minute. Takes longer to drag out a tool on a mobile base and hook it up.

[Chris Fite]

I had a Shopsmith for many years. It was nice to have so much with so little invested in space. The weakest part of it is the table saw, because the top is so high, so small, and tilts for bevels. I built many things with it; and am glad that I had it. I many ways, I have come full circle from the Shopsmith Mark V combination to the Robland X31 combination.

[Larry Browning]

David,
I have a Shopsmith that was my fathers that he aquired in about 1976. I used it for several years and learned to absolutely HATE the table saw. The table is only about 15X20 or so. AND it is next to impossible to add an outfeed table due to the fact that the table moves up and down and tilts instead of the blade. Any kind of outfeed support has to be able to adjust with the table, this is such a major pain. I still use the SS as a drill press and occasionally as a lathe which is fine. I also have the bandsaw and jointer both of which are very under sized which makes them almost useless. I have already replaced the Table saw and jointer and my next major tool purchase will be a bandsaw.
Plus, have you checked the prices on their stuff? They want as much for the 4" jointer attachment with about a 36" bed and no motor as you would pay for a 6" or even an 8" jointer complete with motor. They are also VERY proud of their replacement parts, and when you mail order from them they add shipping AND sales tax because they say they have a sales presence in every state. This inflates the already too high price. Don't think for a minute that you will save money by purchasing a Shopsmith.
One more thing, if you are still dead set on getting a Shopsmith, look for a used one, These can be had for half or even less of the new price form Shopsmith. Check them out on ebay, you will find many to choose from.

[Don Baer]

My neighbor has a shop smith. As other have said the table is very high and has no good way of putting a splitter on. A while back he had a nasty kickback so now he usualy comes over and borrows my table saw when he need to rip something. He constantly complains about the inaccurate fence. Now he mostly uses the Shopsmith for a very large and expensive disc sander.

For the money you'll spend on the shopsmith you can get a very nice table saw and put a router table on it. This will get you headed in the right direction and you won't regret it.

[Vaughn McMillan]

David, first of all, Welcome to the Creek. Hopefully this thread will get moved to the General WW forum, where more folks can see it and chime in. (The Support forum is mostly used for SMC forum-related support issues.)

One of my co-workers has a Shopsmith, and has used it mostly as a lathe and a drill press. He had it before I started putting my relatively meager tool collection together, but as I've added new machines (particularly the table saw and band saw), he's lamented the fact that his versions of the same tools are more limited in their capacity and/or functionality. He's also complained about the high prices SS charges for various accessories. He's now to the point where he's starting to build up a collection of individual machines.

Instead of trying to equip your shop in one fell swoop, I second Tyler's recommendation of only buying major tools as the need for them arises. Also, you mentioned looking at the Ridgid line at Home Depot. I'd recommend that you don't necessarily try to buy everything from the same maker, especially if you're buying hobbyist-level tools. For example, Ridgid makes a pretty good contractor's saw (I have one, and like it a lot), but their bandsaw and jointer are not quite as well-equipped as other brands in the same price range. There are likely others here who disagree with me on this point, but that's my take on it.

- Vaughn

[Dave Lehnert]

David,
I have a Shopsmith that was my fathers that he aquired in about 1976. I used it for several years and learned to absolutely HATE the table saw. The table is only about 15X20 or so. AND it is next to impossible to add an outfeed table due to the fact that the table moves up and down and tilts instead of the blade. Any kind of outfeed support has to be able to adjust with the table, this is such a major pain. I still use the SS as a drill press and occasionally as a lathe which is fine. I also have the bandsaw and jointer both of which are very under sized which makes them almost useless. I have already replaced the Table saw and jointer and my next major tool purchase will be a bandsaw.
Plus, have you checked the prices on their stuff? They want as much for the 4" jointer attachment with about a 36" bed and no motor as you would pay for a 6" or even an 8" jointer complete with motor. They are also VERY proud of their replacement parts, and when you mail order from them they add shipping AND sales tax because they say they have a sales presence in every state. This inflates the already too high price. Don't think for a minute that you will save money by purchasing a Shopsmith.
One more thing, if you are still dead set on getting a Shopsmith, look for a used one, These can be had for half or even less of the new price form Shopsmith. Check them out on ebay, you will find many to choose from.
ShopSmith makes an outfeed table that Attaches to the main table so it goes up or down and tilts with the table.
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/swd_supporttable.htm
YES! SS tools are expensive but you are comparing American made equipment to overseas

[Bob Johnson2]

I've got an old 50's SS which still runs very well, I used it for many years and have built many sucessfull projects with it. In my opinion it is fine but quite limited, you have to only take on projects it can handle. I am not familiar with the newer models but if you go to check them out think about it's ability to cut long boards or good size peices of sheet stock, I was unable to do either. If it hadn't been for the sanding disk nothing would have been square. The table height never bothered me, just it's very limited size which the little extension didn't help, and it lack of a decent fence. I had to clamp the far end of it every time I used it, still do. I didn't and still don't mind changing it over from 1 use to the next, it does only take seconds. If your just starting it may be worth a look, I'd opt for a separate band saw, planer, jointer, and some sort of chop saw in addition to the SS. I had all these along with the SS so my views may be different then if you wanted to use it for all the functions. It's a decent tool, just not terribly accurate.

[Gil Jones]

I will not argue the tool type issue. I have used both kinds, and sold the SS.
I agree that you should at least pull one or two 220 wires and cap them of in their respective boxes for later use. It is much easer to do it during initial construction than later, cheaper too.
My main point is shop usage. If your wife wants to park her car in the same area that you will be woodworking, you may want to consider the sawdust problem that is going to cover and invade her car. Closing the car windows will not keep it out of the air intakes. Good luck:)

[Daryl Holtrop]

If you have the space go with stand alone machines and wire it 220 before rather than later. I have a small half size garage and I started with a jet table saw, jet 12" band saw (junk):mad: , grizzly radial drill press (junk):mad: , delta 12 1/2" planer (workhorse), delta 10" compound miter saw, a homemade router table attatched to the table saw, a workbench and a dewalt scroll saw. Needless to say there wasn't enough room to rip plywood or put together anything bigger than 3 sq ft. I sold my table saw, band saw and drill press and found a slightly used shopsmith with a jointer and bandsaw for the price I got for the table saw and drill press, it is expensive to go new with shopsmith but they will last just check ebay there are systems 50 years old:eek: . I have to agree I miss the table saw but thats it. The shopsmith handles everything I throw at it and I have room to work with out having to move everything around. I am considering :cool: getting either a dewalt or bosch jobsite table saw, they don't take up much room and are good saws. I recently built a kitchen island with the shopsmith and was able to assemble it in the shop.:D Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SSusers/

[Brian Hale]

I won a SS Mk IV (1983?) It sits in the back of my shop with all it's tables installed flush, some 1x6 pine boards on top of it and a large collection of boxes and bins with various parts and hardware on it.

Brian :)

[tod evans]

david, welcome! the best advice i can give for a new hobby shop is to pull more power than you think you`ll ever use. and for heavens sake don`t be in a hurry to outfit your shop! read all you can stand, talk to folks and try out their equipment, then read some more...never was the ol` "haste makes waste" addage more true than in this instance! if knowledge takes you a year and several thousand miles to aquire it will be time well spent. shops are to darn expensive to outfit more than once and cheap tools hurt every time you use them......02 tod

[Luther Oswalt]

david, welcome! the best advice i can give for a new hobby shop is to pull more power than you think you`ll ever use. and for heavens sake don`t be in a hurry to outfit your shop! read all you can stand, talk to folks and try out their equipment, then read some more...never was the ol` "haste makes waste" addage more true than in this instance! if knowledge takes you a year and several thousand miles to aquire it will be time well spent. shops are to darn expensive to outfit more than once and cheap tools hurt every time you use them......02 tod
David,
I was given a Shopsmith and it is a good tool. But ... Tod is right ... take your time and look at all the opitions you have ... but in the mean time be sure to make sure you include 220 outlets around your shop as well as the 110's. Putting them in now is much cheaper than adding them later. I would postion them with the 110's ... I just never though I would need 220's but, boy, was that a mistake:( and now I must add external to the walls in emt conduit:eek: .
Leo

[Mike Cutler]

David.

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.
I think I have to side with the majority on this one. I'd drop the Shopsmith for seperate machine to increase my efficiency and productivity.

First five machines would be;

1. Dust collector, or Cyclone. As big as you can go.
2. Table saw
3. Jointer
4. Planer
5. Bandsaw

I've left out the lathe on purpose. If you are a "lathe guy". You'll know it.;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David......Welcome to the Creek! There's plenty of knowledge here to help educate and enlighten you. Take your time and learn.....then buy .....

[John Webb]

I am a SS user, I own three heads set up as a 1. lathe, 2. disc sander/buffer, 3. flap sander/miscl. power for small bandsaw-jigsaw-jointer. I like being able to use two SS Heads (4 normal variable speed arbors and 2 high speed arbors) on one set of tubes. The other head has a nice lathe chuck on it and for me it works pretty well.

I firmly believe that the tool is only as good as the person using it.

With that said, I am in the market for a nice 14+ inch bandsaw. I also believe in using the proper tool for the job.

Don't let people scare you away from the SS. There are plenty of great used SS out there that can be purchased for about 1/3 the price of a new one. All of mine are well used.

Shopsmith is without a doubt one of the most knowledgefull companies to deal with. They actually answer the phone with a english speaking person and are actually able to answer any question you may have about there product or method of using it. I call them "Good People".

The only cons are the Table Saw- It is more than adequate for a hobbiest, but not enough for the tight spec. master craftsman.

Prices of new attachments are mind numbing- so buy used.

light weight compared to good stand alone machines, sometimes moves around while working- this can be resolved.

Good luck
John Webb

[Ed Blough]

I have a Shopsmith and at times I get the "you need a tablesaw wants". I go out and touch and snuff around and then I remember why I bought the SS. Storage room.

I have a two car garage that I also park my truck and van in plus a lawn tractor, freezer, hot water tank, power edger, and all my tools. My tools include a RAS, Dust collector, 6 ft work bench, air compressor, planner on roll around stand, plus my SS. I have lots of hand tools and hand power tools and I keep all my wood and everything else my wife says must be stored in the garage.

My SS is my tablesaw, lathe, bandsaw, jointer, drill press, horizontal boring machine, biscuit jointer, disk sander, sharpener, molder, shaper. I know there is no way I could get all of that into my garage plus everything else if they were individual machines.

The 510/520 upgrade to the SS gives a much larger table and the ability to support a full 4x8 sheet of ply for cutting, with 50+ inches on either side of the blade.

The thing I really like my SS for is things you really don't think about. Like sharpening the mower blades, or drilling a hole into the end of 20 ft post.
The fact I can cut my board to precision and then swap out the disk sander for blade and sand an ultra thin pass on the cut to smooth it up and just sweeten the joint is really nice.

Would I like a stand alone machine? Sure, but I also know I would have to keep my two vehicles outside or build a building. Neither of which is a good option for me. And if I did have standalone I know I would keep the SS just to have all the other things it does for me. I have built many projects on the SS and I have never ran into anything it couldn't do in a very quick and efficient manner. My projects run from furniture to baby doll carriages to mail boxes and nearly everything in between.

I would look seriously as SS 510/520 models and perhaps you can find a used one. I aligned mine about 20 years ago and just did the 520 upgrade and checked everything. All adjustments were right where I made them 20 years ago dead on.

[Julio Navarro]

...shops are to darn expensive to outfit more than once and cheap tools hurt every time you use them......02 tod

Truer words where never spoken, as well as the dust comment. Look into a good dust collector.

I have a garage shop and I have taken it over completely, no cars in there except for my motorcycle, but the dust is a serious issue. Look into the cyclone dust collector.

[Mike Henderson]

My shop is 10' by 11' and I chose separate machines. I have a table saw, router in the table saw wing, miter saw, planer, lathe, drill press, and bandsaw in that space, plus some bench and storage space for clamps, hand tools (like planes), finishing supplies, etc. The thing I don't like about the SS is that you can generally only do one thing at a time which means that you do a lot of setup and tear down in order to do different functions.

The tool designers keep improving tools. If you purchase a SS, you are stuck with what they offer you. Additionally, if you buy a SS, I'll bet that within a relatively short time (if you keep doing woodworking) you'll relegate the SS to be your lathe and purchase standalone tools for most of your other work functions.

My advice would be to buy as you need things, and research your purchases carefully, but buy separate tools. There are many things you can build with a very limited set of tools. Think of how few tools our ancestors had and the wonderful furniture they produced.

Also, run the wire for several 220 volt circuits now, and put GFCI on all your 110 volt circuits NOW. GFCI can save your life.

Mike

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

The shopsmith will work if you have limited space, but is limited in the things it can do. On the other hand there are some things you can do with the shopsmith that would be hard to to do with standard tools. However, with half a double garage to work with you will kick yourself later for not going with individual tools. Set up time takes a lot more of your valuable working time than you think. The tablesaw is a disaster and in my opinion not safe. Too may accidents can happen with so many different clamping mechanisms to worry about.

[Rob Will]

My suggestion would be to go buy a 3hp 220v Delta Unisaw with a Biesemeyer commercial fence. Get a 50" version if you have room. Install a router in the RH table extension board. Build the rest of your shop around this centerpiece as time and money allow. Design lots of big & deep drawers into your base cabinets rather than all doors. Many smaller tools can be of "benchtop" design to save room.

Good luck!

Rob

[Ron Roberts]

David,

Chalk me up as one of the "groupies" as mentioned in a previous post, I guess. I've owned my Mark V since 1983 and somehow, for all it's "faults" and "limitations" I've managed to do some good work if I do say so myself.

I don't mean to sound overly defensive but at the same time I don't think anyone should dismiss the Shopsmith equipment out of hand as having limitations or taking too long for changeovers. If there are limitations I'd have to take someone's word for it as I've not encountered them.

Space has long been a problem for me and the Mark V has enabled me to do a lot without taking up much room. I have to share "shop" space with two vehicles.

One suggestion I'd make is that you consider visiting one of the sites dedicated to Shopsmith users before making a decision. I'm referring to the Yahoo mailing list for SSUsers and the SSUG.ORG web site. Just a suggestion but it might help you be better informed regardless of what you choose.

Ron