Grizzly G0490 Electrical note to all potential owners

[John Hedges]

As a additional note on this jointer, I looked at the electrical cord which the machine shipped with and found that it was a 16 gauge cord. While I have learned that this is common practice, I thought anyone setting up the electrical for this machine might want to know this so they can be prepared to replace the cord with a more appropriately sized 12 gauge cord.

[Allen Bookout]

Good point. I always put on about twenty five feet of number twelve gauge wire cord so that I can move my stuff around anywhere that I need to.

[Scott Coffelt]

Thanks for the note, looks like a good upgrade and will do the same when mine arrives.

[Russ Massery]

Thanks John, for the heads up on that . Looks like a trip to the electrical supply is in order for me.

[Brian Hale]

All my machines are wired with 12ga extension cord from the borg. Last i checked, a 50" cord was cheaper than just the wire itself. Another advantage is you can find them in different colors. I usully cut them in half, add a male plug on one end to use as a shop cord and the remainder is used for the machine.

Brian :)

[Barry O'Mahony]

What makes you think the cord is not "appropriately sized"?

[Dev Emch]

What makes you think the cord is not "appropriately sized"?

I dont know, maybe the existance of a say a 3 HP motor or TREE PONIES as they say in the islands.:D

[Allen Bookout]

I am starting to wonder if it really is a three HP motor or if the specifications were just misprinted.

[John Hedges]

Barry, Most guides I have seen indicate the use of 12 gauge wire for an 18 amp pull. But I have since learned that for short runs this will actually work ok.

Allen, If it is a misprint the plackard on the motor is also misprinted and they accidentally put a small engine in a really big housing:eek:.

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks John! Allen

[Dev Emch]

Barry, Most guides I have seen indicate the use of 12 gauge wire for an 18 amp pull. But I have since learned that for short runs this will actually work ok.

Allen, If it is a misprint the plackard on the motor is also misprinted and they accidentally put a small engine in a really big housing:eek:.
What Allen was getting at is the use of peak horse power versus developed shaft horse power. Many import tools used to print the peak HP ratings which was a joke. One look at a husky compressor motor tells you that dinky rodent excerise wheel aint no real MO-TAR! Trust me, most folks on this board will have to grunt and squeeze to lift a true 5 HP motor yet alone a 6.5 HP motor as they listed. They were using the diarc impulse starting spike to calculate HP. Indeed the motor is producing the equivalent of 6.5 HP in terms of energy loss for a few milliseconds. Since its such a small time gap, this energy loss is more heat than shaft rotation since the shaft has a mechanical time constant way longer than the start up pulse width. When things settle down, you can take the 6.5 and divide by about 6 to get what 2.1 to 3 HP out in terms of real mechanical shaft power.

This jointer was built to run on 1 to 1.5 HP induction motors. Jointers of type are never taxed at full continous output for the span of their duty cycle either. So to squeeze out an extra 10 cents of profit, the 12 gage line was substituted with a 16 gage line.

In residential electric, your main line single phase breakers are either 15 amp or 20 amp. In 15 amp work, your talking about 14 gage wire. In 20 amp work, your talking about 12 gage wire. If you hook your jointer into a 110 volt plug and run it on either one of these branch circuits, any overload condition outside of a rotor lock up condition will fry your motor. A rotor lock up will most likely generate in excess of 20 amps thereby tripping your main line breakers.

Personally, I have seen a number of consumer products comming out of china lately which had substandard wiring. The last one I fiddled with was a milk house space heater rated at 1500 watts. After a couple of hours, the wire and plug were soft and too hot to handle with bare fingers. Once again, these items had to replaced with a run of 12 gage SO cord and a new heavy duty 20 amp plug. I am getting sick and tired of doing the SO cord dance with new products. IF your going to sell something in the US, then make sure your covering the bases for safe use. Had this heater burned my house down, who do I turn around and sue? Would I sue? You betcha! I would litigate anything not tied down and associated with this product. Its rated to run on 20 amps and that is what I as a consumer demand.

So if your running a 3 HP motor, then I would make sure that I can run at full nameplate output for a continous duty cycle at a 40 degree Cel. rise time. Personally, I dont see how a 16 gage zip cord can do that. I would replace this with 12 gage SO cord and a heavy duty 20 amp plug and send the bill to the manufacturer. After all, this is a new machine. My generals out of canada came with 12 gage CHERRY SO cord coupled with a heavy duty hubble plug rated for 20 amps (single phase units with 1 HP motors!)

[Ed Bamba]

Can anyone explain the need for a 3HP motor in this DJ20 clone when the original uses a 1.5HP motor? Have any of my fellow DJ20 owners ever wished that their jointers came with 3 ponies? I haven't used my jointer that much yet, so this is a sincere question. The Grizz DJ20-clone was a contender for my 8" jointer purchase, that was until I found out that it was comming with a 3HP 220V motor. No 220V access for me right now, so it had to be nixed from the list.

If Shiraz is reading this, maybe he would be the only one who can explain the need for the 3 horse motor requirement for his clone. A nice looking clone BTW, with nicer upgrades to boot.

Oh-sorry if this is considered a hijack post. :o

Take care,
Ed

[Rob Blaustein]

Hmm, the G0586 8" jointer has a 2 HP motor and the spec sheet says it has a 14 g power cord. Is it possible that the G0490 doesn't have a 3 HP motor (maybe it was a typo on the spec sheet?) The Yorkcraft 8" jointer was recently upgraded from 1.5 to 2 HP, so 3 HP for an 8" jointer sounds odd, as others have alluded to. And it is odd that they would have supplied a cord that's thinner than that on the 0586, but then again they were made in different factories. I'm sure Shiraz has a zillion other things to worry about, but maybe if he gets a free minute, he could help us with this electrical confusion?

[Barry O'Mahony]

Barry, Most guides I have seen indicate the use of 12 gauge wire for an 18 amp pull. But I have since learned that for short runs this will actually work ok.Yes. The ampacity ratings for flexible cord in extension cords, supply cords, and fixture wiring is not the same as that for Romex. Romex is massively derated; 60 degree C insulation is assumed, even though the insulation is rated for 90 degrees. This accounts for the fact that NM (Romex) imay be installed inside and insulated wall, out of sight and inaccessible. For flexible cords used as extension cords and fixture wiring, they may be used on 20A circuits.

This assumes the cord length is short enough to not lead to excessive voltage drop. A six-foot cord will have a voltage drop of less than 0.8 volts at 16A; even at the startup current the voltage drop will be low. If you replace this with a long cord, however, you'll need to upgrade the wire guage.

[Allen Bookout]

Yea! ---"What he said!" --Dev that is!

HAH! -- I didn't know that I was so smart.

Allen

[Michael Disorbo]

I am waiting for my new G0490 and I have my new 20' 12 guage cord ready to put on her. Plug is installed and new 20 amp breaker just waiting. Now if that damn thing would get here, I will put her to the test. All new machinary comes with such short cords. I like to move things around and in the summer, I will even go outside on a real nice day and work. Funny, its hard to do any face jointing with just that new cord:eek: Papa Griz, is it any closer to PA yet???

Michael

[Craig Zettle]

Could you just use Romex instead of flexible cord? I know Romex is pretty stiff, but it is cheaper.

[Barry O'Mahony]

Could you just use Romex instead of flexible cord? I know Romex is pretty stiff, but it is cheaper.Not Code-Compliant. Plugs are Listed for use with flexible cord, but not Romex. Lying on the floor is not a permitted use for Romex, either.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Papa Griz, is it any closer to PA yet???
Michael

I am pedalling the rickshaw as fast as I can, but those darn jointers are so heavy!!

[Stephen Dixon]

Could you just use Romex instead of flexible cord? I know Romex is pretty stiff, but it is cheaper.
The real problem with using Romex as a cord is the stiffness you mentioned. In fact the romex will get stiffer every time you move it. This is called "work hardening" and will eventually cause the romex to break if used in a flexible situation. Of course when it does break, and it will, you will get a pretty fair heat build up at the break point, which, of course, will be right behind the jointer in the wood chips you forgot to clean up. Please don't use romex as a cord.

[Michael Disorbo]

You mean the Prez of Grizz is using a rickshaw???? With that built in mobile base, you could just hook up to the jointer and leave the rickshaw at the pier. My stack of wood that needs to be jointed is getting pretty big. If I wait any longer, I may have to buy two of those jointers and another planer just to get caught up with my work :) Papa Griz, are we getting closer??

Michael

p.s. I think that it is just great that you monitor these forums. As far as I am concerned, that is what a company needs to do to get on top and stay there. You just don't see any other big names on here looking after their products. Your time and honesty are much appreciated!!!!!

[Dev Emch]

Yes. The ampacity ratings for flexible cord in extension cords, supply cords, and fixture wiring is not the same as that for Romex. Romex is massively derated; 60 degree C insulation is assumed, even though the insulation is rated for 90 degrees. This accounts for the fact that NM (Romex) imay be installed inside and insulated wall, out of sight and inaccessible. For flexible cords used as extension cords and fixture wiring, they may be used on 20A circuits.

This assumes the cord length is short enough to not lead to excessive voltage drop. A six-foot cord will have a voltage drop of less than 0.8 volts at 16A; even at the startup current the voltage drop will be low. If you replace this with a long cord, however, you'll need to upgrade the wire guage.

Yes. And dont forget that airbourne wire can handle much more. Its all about heat dissipation. And NM/Romex has a paper liner. Treated or not, this paper can smoke and burn. Getting heat off of romex is not nearly as easy as getting it off of EMT conduit with THHN!

[Dev Emch]

Could you just use Romex instead of flexible cord? I know Romex is pretty stiff, but it is cheaper.

These days, I run a dedicated EMT conduit using THHN wire to the general location of the fixed tool. Usually overhead or from behind. Then I terminate with a metal junction box. I install a strain relief fitting into the junction box and then run SO cord into the machine and hook it up. SO is awsome stuff and comes in many sizes and configurations. HD and Lowes often have a number of smaller gage, single phase type SO cords for sale by the foot. The best stuff is made by Cheery. I use it for any flexible interconnect or extension cord application.

[Tom Jones III]

I install a strain relief fitting into the junction box

What is a strain relief fitting, and where do you find one? I would love to run electric overhead and drop it down to the tool, but I can't seem to find any strain relief. It makes it much harder to find when you don't know what you are looking for!

[John Hedges]

Tom, a strain relief is something that clamps and holds the cord from pulling out of a junction box. The G0490 comes with one built into the magnetic switch you wire into. If you are wiring a cord directly into the unit you will be fine and can use the strain relief on the unit. Just be sure to use 12-3 cord instead of 12-4 or you will have a real bugger of a time hooking it up as the diameter on the 12-4 cord is really too big around to fit through the built in strain relief DAMHIKT. (12-4 is unnecessary and one of the wires will be unused)

[Tom Jones III]

Are you talking about the fitting that goes into the hole in the junction box and clamps to the wire to keep it from pulling out?

[John Hedges]

Dat be da one

[Tom Jones III]

Dat be da one

@#%@%^#$% I've been using them all along while I wonder how I can get my hands on some. Just goes to show what a little knowledge can do.

Thanks.