newbie question about face frames

[Alan Berezin]

Sorta new to wordworking but with all the mistakes I make, I must be learning something :mad: . Anyway, I see in most books that when doing casework, bookshelves, etc, people see to build the faceframe in one piece and then glue it on. Is there any good reason why it is done that way as opposed to just glueing on a piece at a time. The reason I ask if because Im building a pretty big built-in and it seems awkward to build the face frame separately.

Thanks, alan

[Alex Berkovsky]

Let another newby take a crack at an answer. When you glue up a face frame, you use some type of joinery method (ie, biscuits, pocket holes). If you glue the face frame to the carcass one piece at a time, you would only be able to butt joint it. I am sure someone will correct me :D

[Dave Falkenstein]

I agree with the comment Alex made. In addition, cabinet carcasses are sometimes not perfectly square. Face frames are often made with a reveal (overhang) on both sides. The reveal is typically 1/4" or so and allows a preassembled face frame to be made perfectly square and fit to the cabinet so it gives the cabinet the appearance of being square. Doors and drawers look much better if mounted into or onto a face frame that is square. I have had occasions to build cabinets where the face frame was built in place onto the cabinet carcass, and I think it is easier to preassemble the face frame and then mount it onto the carcass. If you cut the face frame parts square, and use pocket hole joints, the face frames are easy to assemble and are self squaring. Using a pin nailer to hold the face frame in place while the glue dries leaves almost invisible holes to fill with colored putty.

[Bob Rufener]

I think you will find that if you build the face frames and then apply them to the carcase, you will have much better control over the fit of the joints and be able to much better join the pieces together using pocket holes, biscuits or whatever. It is also easier to do some final sanding when the piece is flat rather than vertical. There is no real reason why you can't do it piece by piece but I think your final outcome will be better if you don't.

[Bob Rufener]

Although awkward at times, I agree with the other posters that you probably will have much better control if you build the face frames and apply to the case as a unit. You will find that you will have much better control over the joints. A butt joint is not as strong as a joint secured by pocket holes and screws or biscuits. I use pocket holes in most of my frames and am completely satisfied with the results.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Alan

There is nothing wrong with doing it one piece at a time. However. It's nice to be able to have control over your face frame without having to worry about the carcase. When you do the face frame alone you can look for joints that are not alighning well and for the frame not being square. It aslo allows you the be able to sand both sides flat. Large cabinet shops just run the whole face frame through as large sander. When you go to glue the face frame to the carcase you have a square frame which to align the carcase parts to. Hope that helps.

[Ellen Benkin]

When you make the face frame as one piece it helps square and strenthen the carcass. Having said that, I've used the other method because it is easier. I think the real purpose of the face frame is to dress up the unfinished edges of plywood and the back serves the purpose of squaring and strenthening.

[Frank Pellow]

The only time I attempted to build a face frame one piece at a time, the frame ended up not square and I ended up quite unhappy with myself. :( I find it much easier to build and square the frame by itself and, since I discovered pocket hole joinery, I can assemble "perfect" frames very quickly. :)

[Alan Berezin]

Thanks for all the tips. I built 2 carcases with 3/4" BB, each one 15"W x 80"H x 24"D (part of a larger built in). It had dadoed in 3/4" shelves. After glueing and scewing them together, I realized that one carcase was bowed 1/8 in the center from top to bottom (one side is concave, the other convex) :( Im not sure how I could have squared the whole thing up while putting it together (not that I even knew to do that at the time). Maybe I should have assembled it starting with the back. Anyway, Had I prebuild the faceframe, and I didnt want a reveal, it would not have aligned at all. On the other hand, I guess a nice square faceframe would have forced me to get the case square in the first place.

[Don Baer]

Alan;
In the past when I made cabinets I would make the carcus and tghen just attach the face frames. Since then whenever I make a caninate I make a matched set of face frames and then use them front and back to attace the carcus together. In this way the cabinets come out perfectly square. I learned this trick while making a dresser for my grandaughter some time bac. It's a little more work but it sure gave me great resultls I use have lap joint to attch the styles and rails . By doing the half lap joints the face frames went together without a hitch and were square and true.

you can see an example of what I am tabking about in this picture.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20467&d=1118524848

[Steve Ash]

Alan, I just posted these pics, maybe thay will help you out.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31222

[lou sansone]

I have always done face frames off the box like steve is showing. I understand the half lap method and it seems to have some merit, but I see most pros building them seperate.

lou