New (to me) toy!

[J.R. Rutter]

I had an unusually good stroke of luck this morning that I just have to share with people who can appreciate it!

I've been looking for a heavy duty shaper to complete my door making trio. Not having much luck with used - too expensive and/or too far away. I've been looking at a quote for an Invicta laying on my desk for the past week, but couldn't quite swallow the price tag considering I would still need a feeder. Just before I had my last sip of coffe before heading to the shop, I decided to check that big auction site, just for kicks. On the second page of shaper listings, there was something that caught me eye, but it was a "local pickup only." Oh well, may as well see what it's selling for.

Lo and behold, it is right here in town. Holey smokes, it's exactly what I need! Tingles!

Long story short, I wrote the check an hour ago and hope to pick it up within a week. Raised panels here we come!

<img src="http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/31/4e/a2_3.JPG">

[Roy Wall]

Nice score J.R. !!!!

That looks like a good machine - enjoy and be safe!

Good for you!!!

[Jim Becker]

Purdy! That's a great find, J.R.!!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

NICE machine! Ya gotta love that big auction site!!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Great looking machine J.R. Congrats on a nice score.

[Dev Emch]

Uhhh Uhhhh Uhhhh, I am making grunting sounds. You did goood! The shaper is a good middle of the road shaper but the big score is on the Univer feeder. That is a killer feeder and one of the finest made. And since these are the stock feeders installed on martins leaving martin USA, need I say more!

[Paul B. Cresti]

Dev, well excuse me...... I am much more partial to the Shaper!!!! as Tod would say it JR welcome to Italian tools...the only place too be :D Great score, best of luck with it. Is that a 130 or 150?

[Bill Simmeth]

Congrats JR! Paul, I thought Univer was Italian, too -- no?

[Paul B. Cresti]

Congrats JR! Paul, I thought Univer was Italian, too -- no?

Bill,
Maybe I am wrong but I think it is German. Italians make the Maggi, that I know and I own

[Bill Simmeth]

Ah, here we go, from the link below... "Quality UNIVER power feeders from Italy"
http://www.simantechinc.com/products.htm

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ah, here we go, from the link below... "Quality UNIVER power feeders from Italy"
http://www.simantechinc.com/products.htm

oops! Hey JR......nice feeder too!!;)

[lou sansone]

nice score on the shaper. what are the specs on it? does it tilt?..
any chance of getting a couple shots under the skirt when you get it in your shop?

thanks

lou

[Dev Emch]

Congrats JR! Paul, I thought Univer was Italian, too -- no?

My understanding is that Univer is from Italy. Also, they are built like a sherman tank and have a gearing system mostly of metal and not plastic. They can take a massive licking and keep on ticking. When it comes to power feeders, my vote is for the Univer.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Dev, Paul, this sounds like the Mary Ann or Ginger argument!

[Russ Massery]

Nice score J.R.! That looks like a serious piece of Iron. Be sure to give a follow up when you get her up and running.

[J.R. Rutter]

I'm just itchin' to get it into the new shop. Maybe Sunday I can round up enough help to get it onto a lift gate. No forkilift at this guys garage. . .

It is a 120K, no tilt. 10 HP (well 9.9), with a nice tall 1-1/4" spindle. I should be able to stack a bunch of cutters on there and just move up/down to select profile. The seller is just 4-5 miles from me and bought this new 20 years ago to do a run of big profile moulding. According to him, it has maybe a couple of weeks worth of run time. And it certainly looks pristine - no marks (let alone wear) on the table or the original wood fence even. The feeder needs some new rubber, but seems to be in pretty nice shape. Feed speed changes are so easy compared to the Comatic type that I'm used to slumming with.

All in all, it makes my Powermatics look like real lightweights. And it cost less than my #27!

Thanks for sharing the fun guys!

[Paul B. Cresti]

Dev, Paul, this sounds like the Mary Ann or Ginger argument!

Definately Mary Ann !!!

[Bill Simmeth]

Cool stuff, JR. Enjoy!

[tod evans]

jr, welcome to italian tools! i saw that one for sale but it was a bit far for the 56..... you`ll be in heaven, single pass with raiser and backcutter to full deapth in whatever you throw at it even hickory! 12+" diameter if you want to swing it! really nice machine......02 tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Dev, Paul, this sounds like the Mary Ann or Ginger argument!

What is a "Mary Ann or Ginger argument"........... I'd just have both ;) :rolleyes: :D

JR, VERY nice get, get lots of help with strong backs!

Cheers!

[tod evans]

i believe that unit tips the scales at around 1500# so some sort of home made bridge crane really is the safe way to load and unload it.......02 tod

[J.R. Rutter]

+ 200 lbs for the feeder (!)

I raise panels on my 5 HP PM#27 now, but it definitely "feels" a single pass double cut. And the Comatic feeder does the job, but doesn't have the finesse of the Euro feeders. Most of the time, downward tension is supplied by the mounting columns flexing slightly rather than the suspension working...

[Bob Dodge]

Hi JR,

Great score on a "class A" set-up. Nice long table, too. Keep me posted on how you're making out with your dc.

Bob

[Chris Giles]

Ginger and SCMI!:D

[J.R. Rutter]

Bob - I ended up going with the Model 30 Torit cyclone with 103 cu ft hopper base. You might remember the pic from a previous thread on DC upgrade. The bottom of the hopper is 7 ft off the ground, with 9 ft between the legs. I'm currently looking for someone who will park a trailer under there in echange for free shavings. I'm going to make a filter plenum with 4 x Oneida wide pleated filters, since I had 2 already from my current setup. Got a deal (assuming it is legitimate) on a nearly complete used Nordfab duct system. Have to buy a few parts from my local dealer. Everything is taking longer than anticipated, but I hope to be up and running first week of March...

[Bob Dodge]

Hi John,

Well, again, good score on that dc. That should be a smart buy for your new shop, especially considering the price you were quoted.

All the best,

Bob

[J.R. Rutter]

I got the shaper and feeder into the new space today. I found a "hoist and haul" guy who has a flat bed truck with small crane on the back. It was a really slick way to move it. Not cheap, but all I had to do was stand around and watch.

Now, the guy who sold me the shaper has some other fine tools in his shop. He retired from woodworking as a business about 5 years ago and moved his equipment into his garage. Beside the shaper was an old overarm router. As we were watching the shaper getting loaded, he mentioned that he needed more room to work on his car. He said that he was ready to just give the router away. Well, since the truck was there and all . . .

I now have a late 50s or early 60s Porter #612. It is a 3HP with 24" throat. The table is about 20" x 30". Oil bath bearings, smooth treadle pedal to raise table, pin for table. It must weigh 2500 lbs. Now THAT is a 3 HP router! I forgot the camera today, but I'll post pics later.

[Dev Emch]

I got the shaper and feeder into the new space today. I found a "hoist and haul" guy who has a flat bed truck with small crane on the back. It was a really slick way to move it. Not cheap, but all I had to do was stand around and watch.

Now, the guy who sold me the shaper has some other fine tools in his shop. He retired from woodworking as a business about 5 years ago and moved his equipment into his garage. Beside the shaper was an old overarm router. As we were watching the shaper getting loaded, he mentioned that he needed more room to work on his car. He said that he was ready to just give the router away. Well, since the truck was there and all . . .

I now have a late 50s or early 60s Porter #612. It is a 3HP with 24" throat. The table is about 20" x 30". Oil bath bearings, smooth treadle pedal to raise table, pin for table. It must weigh 2500 lbs. Now THAT is a 3 HP router! I forgot the camera today, but I'll post pics later.

J.R., YOU SUCK!:D

For Ken and everybody else not familar with OWWM culture, that is the ultimate toy aquisition complement! Boy did you good! Hurry up and get some photos. Are these oil drop bearings or oil bath bearings or oil myst bearings? What type of spindle do you have? These could run the standard collet spindle which lets you use 1/2 inch or smaller shank router bits. But there were also collet extension spindles to allow you to run 3/4 inch shaper cutters. Any chance you got the shaper fence for this guy? You can run these as a 3/4 inch spindle shaper albeit the drive is from above and not below.

[J.R. Rutter]

I thought you would get a kick out of this one, Dev.

I have a lot to learn about machinery like this. The bearing lube system has a reservoir on one side that leads to the bottom bearing, then another line up the other side to the top, with a sight glass. The machine plate says (if I remember right) to use light mineral oil, with viscosity of 75. So which is it?

The collet is a 1/2 inch and takes std modern router bits. No fence, but he did give me a pin that he had machined to fit, with 2 different diameter ends so you can flip for different pin sizes.

Looks like this model is currently listed with various machine dealers for $1900 - $2750. They go for 1/2 that at auction.

[Dev Emch]

I thought you would get a kick out of this one, Dev.

I have a lot to learn about machinery like this. The bearing lube system has a reservoir on one side that leads to the bottom bearing, then another line up the other side to the top, with a sight glass. The machine plate says (if I remember right) to use light mineral oil, with viscosity of 75. So which is it?

The collet is a 1/2 inch and takes std modern router bits. No fence, but he did give me a pin that he had machined to fit, with 2 different diameter ends so you can flip for different pin sizes.

Looks like this model is currently listed with various machine dealers for $1900 - $2750. They go for 1/2 that at auction.

Here you need to make sure you understand whats up. My porter jointer has oil sumps under the two main bearings. Each is independent. I can drain the oil out of each sump like you drain the oil on your car. There are two chrome and glass sight gages which is where you fill the oil.

I am currently working on an onsrud pin router which is similar to yours. The difference is that the table stays put and the spindle desends into the work. This has nothing to do with C.R. Onsrud. ANother company completely! At any rate, there is a glass and brass bottle oiler on top of the machine. It drips oil in drops at a predetermined drop rate into a two tubes. One tube goes straight to the top bearing and another tube runs down the side of the head to the lower bearing. Below and to the back of the lower bearing is yet another sump. This collects the old oil and keeps it until you have a chance to drain it.

At 20,000 RPM, most bearings do not like grease. Yah there are new versions of grease for this speed but those bearings are expensive and a kludge. For super precision spindle bearings, nothing beats a light machine oil or better yet, air powered oil myst like Bjur Injection.

Dont quote me on this but I think Lie Nielsen is using a pin router to shape the wooden handles used in their hand planes. What they call appropriate technology. Most of these are being replaced with CNC routers. But I currently have less than $750 dollars tied up in mine including buying it, shipping it, replaceing bearings, new paint, new two speed starter, etc. Pin routers are just not very valuable anymore with all this CNC stuff going about, but, in a pinch, I can produce multiple, complex parts with the quality and features of multi axis CNC routers. But for $750 dollars, I cannot even buy the software yet alone the whole machine. And most of that is for the new starter and bearings!

The best part of the pin router is the ability to do things like blind dados. Its easy to drop the spindle into your work, run from one stop to the next stop along a temp. fence and let up on the peddle thus pulling the spindle out of the work. No more dropping boards onto rotating spindles in router tables. No more struggles with low speed spindles spinning high speed router bits.

I think you will enjoy this beastie!

[tod evans]

jr, have you hooked your shaper up yet? here`s my get around to it pin router.....02 tod

31891

[Bill Simmeth]

JR... nice score and as Dev said, You Suck! Exfactory has a couple nice 612s they're asking $2K for. I really like the lines on those things. Enjoy!

Hey Tod, that's quite a lump of iron you've got there, too! Nice clamp rack also.

[J.R. Rutter]

The elec. in the new shop is still in rough-in stage, so nothing is connected yet. I still have a schedule full of orders to fill, and the DC hasn't arrived yet. So I'm hoping to do a fast shut down, move, restart over a long weekend early in March. The onlt thing I've done so far is to spend 5 minutes looking it over - running the spindle up and down (silky smooth), run the feeder columns through their range of motion (needs cleaned and lubricated), and check out the quick change lever that pivots the motor and tensions the belt for the speed changes (sweet). I think my wife is getting jealous...

Tod - I'm looking at the JLT "Buddy" clamp setup that has panel clamps on one side, and door clamp on the back. Sure seems like a good compact system. Much better than Planos and K-bodies.

Dev - I'll take some pics of the oiler setup and get your advice before I run it.

[tod evans]

jr, you`ll love the jlt stuff! i think it`s the quickest way short of rf/dc drying machines to glue panels/doors. if you can swing it a dc panel clamp will clamp-n-dry a panel in less than 2 min but they`re pricy. jlt`s glue applicators are worth the money too, if you don`t allready own one..02 tod

[J.R. Rutter]

Here's a shot under the top showing the bottom of the spindle column, spindle lock cable, quick tension speed change lever, motor, etc. No vac at the shop yet, so still has lots of dust.
<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/tools/T120K%20guts.jpg">

Here's a shot looking down on the spindle when it is lowered partway into the casting that holds it. Now that should be rigid!
<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/tools/T120K%20spindle.jpg">

Here's the new "3 HP router"
<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/tools/porter%20side.JPG">

And shots of the lubrication system
<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/tools/porter%20head%20left.jpg">
<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/tools/porter%20head%20right.jpg">

So what sort of setup is this Dev? Any recommendations on what oil to use?

[Dev Emch]

Here's a shot under the top showing the bottom of the spindle column, spindle lock cable, quick tension speed change lever, motor, etc. No vac at the shop yet, so still has lots of dust.
http://www.nas.com/%7Eharmonic/tools/T120K%20guts.jpg

Here's a shot looking down on the spindle when it is lowered partway into the casting that holds it. Now that should be rigid!
http://www.nas.com/%7Eharmonic/tools/T120K%20spindle.jpg

Here's the new "3 HP router"
http://www.nas.com/%7Eharmonic/tools/porter%20side.JPG

And shots of the lubrication system
http://www.nas.com/%7Eharmonic/tools/porter%20head%20left.jpg
http://www.nas.com/%7Eharmonic/tools/porter%20head%20right.jpg

So what sort of setup is this Dev? Any recommendations on what oil to use?

That is a nice router! As for the lubrication issues. I need to have a closer look but a couple of things done make sense. The tube on the left side has a sight gage on the top. The tube on the right side appears to be an accumulator but its below the sight gage. Both tubes feed into the bottom bearing boss. I dont see much going on with the top bearing. Got any detail shots of whats happening with the plumbing on the top bearing? Its different from how onsrud does/did it.

As for oil. Most likely some form of velocite. There should be a nameplate on the machine which gives you brand and viscosity. These can be cross referenced over to a mobil version. I like the mobil products so that is what i have experience with. You can try McMaster Carr as a possible source for oil in small amounts. The mobil dealer often sells this stuff in 5 gallon drums.