Shopping for a new pickup. Help!

[Royce Meritt]

Here's the story...
My wife and I bought our first camper a couple of summers ago. We really ended up with more camper than we needed for just the 2 of us. However, we got a deal we just couldn't pass up. The camper is a 30' travel trailer. Quite a bit longer and heavier than we went looking for but at any rate it's ours now.

We find ourselves wishing we had a bit "more" pickup with which to pull said camper. Our current pickup is a 1997 Chevy (sorry Ford folks) 1/2 ton, extended cab. 5.3 liter (I think), V8, 4X4 with a towing package (really, I think that just means it has a transmission cooler, etc.) This pickup pulls the camper OK but really makes the old engine work hard at highway speeds. Gas milage REALLY sucks at speeds over 60 mph.

I am not the least bit of a "motor head". For those of you who know more about this stuff than I do, what should I be looking for in my new (or "new to me) pickup. Engine size, gear ratios, etc.

I am not particular to one brand over another. I will be looking for a pickup that fits my needs at a price I can afford. Thanks for any input.

[Jim Becker]

Lots of good choices. If you're going to do some serious towing, than consider one of the diesels. I will say that if I were buying another pickup sometime...I recently gave mine up for a family vehicle...I'd buy another Tundra without blinking. (Gas only on that option--at least so far)

[tod evans]

royce, instead of a new to you pick-up read here first....02 tod
http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html

and no i aint sellin` nuthin`

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Royce..........I tow a 9000 lb. 26' 5th wheel with a 1990 Ford F350 4x4 p/u. It has a 460 cu.in. V-8 and 4.10 rear end and a 5-speed manual transmission. It gets 11 miles to the gallon on the highway and doesn't seem to matter if I have the trailer or am running unloaded.........it's 11 miles to the gallon. I bought it used and so far it's been a good vehicle.

[Michael Gibbons]

Royce, I'll give you my sales pitch first since I work for Ford. I recently purchased an F150 for my wife which will haul just about anything. We really had or hearts set on a F350 with diesel and auto trans but couldn't bring ourselves to spend the extra $8000. I went hunting last November with my friend and his dad in his GMC diesel dually and was quite impressed with the gas mileage. We were pulling a real load and the truck didn't break a sweat. Now if you do decide on a diesel, always remember to put diesel fuel in the tank (new habit to form). For a general gear ratio get a 3.73. Thats what sells the most, Get a locker axle. It will give you torque but also mileage. ( I work in an axle plant) The 4.10 or 4.30 are used to pull military tanks out of the mud. If you really want some room get the crew cab,Diesel, 8 ft box, 4wd, auto. The longer the truck the smoother the ride. The 8ft: box you can slide full sheets of plywood in and shut the tailgate. Hope I didn't ramble too much.:D

[Anthony Anderson]

Royce, We were in Seattle last summer and happened upon an accident that had us in traffic for at least a couple of hours. It was a Chevrolet 1/2 ton extended cab 4X4 truck, pulling a trailer as you have described. Well at least it tried. The driver must have had to make a sudden stop and the force of the trailer moving forward bent the frame right in the middle of the truck, about where the cab meets the bed. There was oil, trans fluid, antifreeze everywhere. The truck could not be moved as its frame was almost touching the ground.
Now there must have been something that went wrong with the trailer's braking system, but this was a scary sight, and made me glad that I was not behind the wheel when this happened. Point being, make sure that you get enough truck to handle the load you are pulling, and some extra just in case you need it. I have an F-250 and I would hesitate pulling your trailer with it. Personally I would go with an F-350 or 3500 dually diesel. Good Luck, Bill

[Matt Meiser]

I work in an axle plant

Sterling Axle?

[Mike Cutler]

Royce. What is the weight of the 30' trailer empty?, and how much weight do you believe that you will add to it when it's "stocked up".
If we(You) know the GVWR,Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. Trailer+contents of the trailer. We can get closer to finding a vehicle based on that GVWR that will not challenge the overall GCVWR, Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating. Tow vehicle weight+Trailer weight+ passenger weight+amount of "stuff".
One more consideration is where do you expect to tow? Flat, Mountains, Deserts, etc...
The Ford F-350 Duallie diesel would certainley meet your needs. Dodge 3500 diesel duallie, and I don't know the GM/Chevy big diesels but I'm sure that they are good also.
I would personally go diesel. Lots of low end torque and plenty of power.Your Chevy 1/2 ton is probably putting out about 300-350 ft/lbs of torque, if it is equipped with a V8 and a tow package. The diesels will have 550-600 ft/lbs of torque.
If I was ever going to buy a big fuel guzzling truck, it would be now. They can't give those away right now.
Let us know the trailer specs.

Incidentally, I'm looking at tow vehicles also. I have a Toyota Tacoma, and now I need to tow a horse trailer. Nothing near the weight of your needs. I'll be closer to 4500lbs max tow weight. Easy Stuff, just a bit much for a Tacoma in my opinion, Maybe a Tundra.:D

[Joe Pelonio]

My parents pull a 5th wheel trailer about the same size as yours. They used to have a Ford F250 460 V8. They too had trouble with it struggling on hills and bad gas mileage (8-10) when towing. What they ended up with is a Dodge with the Cummins Diesel, it's a few years old (got it used) but it gets 22mpg normally, 15 when towing and they are very happy with it.

[Norman Hitt]

royce, instead of a new to you pick-up read here first....02 tod
http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html

and no i aint sellin` nuthin`

That sounds like a good and beneficial transmission, Tod, Buuuuuut.......for a 30' trailer, Both his 1/2 ton pickup, AND his 5.3 litre engine are too light for this application. You really do need a heavier towing vehicle, AND the larger brakes they have to handle a trailer that size in hills and the extra weight for control during a fast stop, or "especially in windy conditions". I would recommend a 1 ton, (3500 series) single wheel or preferably dual wheel truck of one of the three major brands. The Ford is good all around, The Chevy Alison transmission has good shift points and helps with downhill braking, but their diesel engine is not nearly as reliable as the Cummins in the Dodge or the Ford's powerstroke. The Cummins will get the best fuel mileage, with the chevy next, and the Ford slightly more. A diesel, IMHO is the best way to go for any heavy towing.

I do have a lot of experience towing with all these vehicles, and these have been my observations over the past several years. Hope this helps.

PS: I definitely prefer a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission on a tow vehicle, but that is just me, and I know a lot of folks are not comfortable shifting manually.

[Vaughn McMillan]

...You really do need a heavier towing vehicle, AND the larger brakes they have to handle a trailer that size in hills and the extra weight for control during a fast stop, or "especially in windy conditions"... Roger that. I once towed a heavy 26' travel trailer from Albuquerque to Gallup (and back) with a 1990 Ford Bronco. It had a 5.0L V8 and 5-speed manual tranny, and an equalizer hitch, but it was far too short and light to safely tow the load. I had the whole rig sideways at 65 mph going down into the Rio Puerco canyon after the trailer tried to pass me. I straightened it out by laying on the trailer brakes and the gas at the same time, but the pucker factor was off the charts.

For a trailer like you've got Royce, I would definitely want something beefier than a 1/2 ton Chevy. I know Ford and Dodge diesel owners who are very happy with their trucks.

- Vaughn

[Mike Cutler]

PS: I definitely prefer a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission on a tow vehicle, but that is just me, and I know a lot of folks are not comfortable shifting manually.

You're the second person in less than two weeks that said that.
Just met a horse hauler that brought a percheron mare into our barn. He had a huge, rear/sideload 6 horse trailer, that was built like a tank. He had just gotten finished taking 4 clydesdales to Ca. So this guy pulls some serious weight at times.
He told me that the Automatics kept burning up on him. He was driving a Dodge 3500 Diesel Dualy 4x4 with a manual. He said he routinely puts 250k miles on a vehicle in 3 years.
I always thought automatics were the way to go. Interesting.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Something to consider about transmissions........Based on numerous friends recommendations, in the mountains, I bought a truck with a 5-speed manual transmission. I am able to gear down when I start to descend a grade with my 9000 lb 5th wheel behind me. It is a real advantage. Recently, however, most of the major manufacturers recommend their Automatic transmissions as the transmission of choice for towing. Ford and GM have an automatic transmission that has a "holdback" feature. I have a friend that has the Ford and loves it! He's had numerous manual transmission Fords and couldn't keep brakes in them (he does a lot of towing). Since he got his latest Ford F-350 with the Automatic with the "holdback" button, he says he can't imagine ever having to have the brakes worked on. He's towing either a lot of horses or a huge trailer! Talk to the manufactures and see what they recommend!

PS. The LOML won't drive my manual transmission p/u around town because she's afraid of getting stopped at a stop light on a grade in town and not being able to get it started again. That is also a problem when going up steep grades! When I'm towing, if I get stopped, if the grade is steep, it can be difficult to get restarted without killing the engine even in "granny low". With an automatic it shouldn't be a problem.

[tod evans]

i agree with all you guys who say a 1 ton and manual trans with heavy duty brakes is the way to go, and the cummins with a gale banks kit will pull whatever you hook it to. but i was offering poor-boy advice, where do you travel royce? and how often? is your camper a bumper hitch or 5th wheel? will you be driving the vehicle mainly without the trailer or will it be used primarly for pulling? are your intentions to go from one k-o-a to another? or are the deer woods and old fire trails your destination? what is the real weight of your trailer when traveling? does it have electronic brakes or surge? answering these questions will help you make an informed decision on what vehicle will best suit your needs.....02 tod

[Frank Fusco]

My first thought on reading your description of truck, camper, etc. was that you had a well designed package. But, if it isn't enough truck for you , it isn't enough. A 30' camper shouldn't put that much load on a truck. I'm guessing it is an old (read that 'heavy') camper, new ones are designed to save fuel. If you go for a larger truck and engine, the fuel consumption will still be a bank breaker. I've pulled a lot of stuff with my Dodge and believe it would not have a problem with a new 30' camper. It sure handled a stock trailer full of cattle OK. But, it's a Dodge. ;)

[Bryan Somers]

Royce there is some good advice here. I have the same truck, but with the 5.7 liter engine and have towed 2 different RV's with it. The biggest 27 ft 5th-wheel weighing in at just under 7000#s. Like you I knew I didnt have enough truck and I could see the fuel guage move when towing. You are correct it is not enough truck. I believe the tow rating on yours is around 6000#s. The weight of your trailer is located inside one of the cabinet doors. You will easily put 1500#s of needed stuff or more in it. You need to make sure wich ever truck you pick has a tow rating that exceeds your loaded weight.
Toyata and Nissian have trucks rated around 9000#s the Dodge hemi about 8500#s. If you need more go 3/4 ton, if you tow alot seriously consider a deisel. Should you decide on a gas engine the bigger engines will have better milage while towing(the truck Ken described is a hoss) and 4wd will help backing into some sites. Do a search for RV sites there are lots of discussions on this subject.
There are lots of good trucks out there. Best of luck to you and ejoy your new RV

[tod evans]

some of us poor-boy it on occasion:) .....02 tod

31599

[David Fried]

some of us poor-boy it on occasion:) .....02 tod


Now, that's a truck!

[Jim Becker]

Now, that's a truck!

I agree!! Tod, old buddy, old pal...we need you to post a thread on that beauty! Even us non-auto buffs will appreciate it. ;)

[Brian Hale]

A diesel is the best choice for towing, however, consider the money part of the equation.......

A diesel option for p/u truck runs $4k- $6.
Milage gain will be 4-8 mpg while towing.
Typical oil change is 12-14 quarts.
How many miles must you drive before you break even on the diesel option. :D :D :D

There is also the fun factor. Dragging 7000lbs up an 8% + grade is fun with a diesel.

If you enjoy BOMBing your truck, the options are nearly endless with diesel. (Steer clear of the Banks stuff) There are folks in my club running 700+hp and 1100+ lbs of torque and driving the truck to work everyday getting 19+mpg. (IF they keep their foot off the floor :rolleyes: ) These are Dyno proven numbers which represent HP/TQ at the rear wheels, not the flywheel like new trucks are rated. (~20% power loss through the drivetrain)

I'll buy any truck that has a Cummins in it. Currently only Dodge and the Big F450 and F550 from Ford. The F250 and F350 are International 6.0L, a new design. The Chevy's run an Izusu(sp?) diesel.

Brian :)

[Michael Gibbons]

Matt Meiser, Yes, Sterling Axle 17& Mound rd.


Mike

[Bill Grumbine]

I can't offer much to the conversation in the way of towing a trailer this big, but I have a couple of comments on manual transmissions in trucks today - well, not today, but recently. In 1996 I bought a brand new Chevy K3500 crew cab, 8' bed, etc. I ordered it from the factory with a manual transmission because I learned on a manual, preferred a manual, and everyone knows a manual is better for towing and general control over the vehicle, right?

At 18,000 miles I had to put new brakes AND rotors on the front wheels. At 36,000 miles I had to put brakes on AGAIN. At 42,000 miles the CLUTCH went bad! :mad: :mad: :mad: This is the first time I had ever had a clutch go bad in less than 96,000 miles. The mechanic who did my work suggested that perhaps it was the way I drove the thing, at least until he got the clutch out of it. He told me it is the same little clutch they put in the 1/2 ton trucks! :mad: And of course, the brakes were way too small for the loads in this truck. Heck, they were too small for the truck all by itself!

I got rid of that truck and replaced it with a 1/2 ton extended cab with the 8' box. I went 60,000 miles before it needed brakes (no change in driving habits) and it has an automatic transmission in it!

Royce, if you get something with a manual transmission, make sure it is sized to the truck and what you will be pulling with it.

Bill

[Ned Bulken]

Royce,
I used to live full time out of a 27' 5th wheel trailer. I was traveling for work and that was my permanent motel room, without the annoying maid service knocking on my door when I was still trying to sleep.
I had a '90 F150 with a 5.0L and the A4OD non electronic overdrive tranny. My trailer was only about 4000 lbs wet, so I had more than enough truck for that unit.
All of that being said, I would look Hard at a larger truck. You mentioned mileage:
Mileage with any trailer is going to suffer, yeah, you're going to watch the fuel guage drop. I can watch that with my unladen chevy astro, that's part of driving a truck. You're just NOticingg it more because of the new situation.
First thought, take your trailer to a local truck scale and weigh first just the pickup and then , the whole unit, truck and trailer. Subtract the truck from the total weight and that will give you the real world weight of your trailer. Now, look at the GCWR on the truck, I suspect that your trailer may be too heavy to safely tow with your pickup.
as for replacement: Brands are immaterial, we all have our favorites, but that isn't truly relevant here. THe Towing capacity of whatever truck you get is the issue. From the sounds of it, you should be looking at at Least a 3/4 ton, if not a one ton. Personally I'd go with a Diesel, no you won't recoup the total cost of a Diesel while owning it, but resale will make up for that in the long run. You might even want to look at a used Medium duty truck, there are what they call 'cowboy cadillac' trucks out there all set up for towing RV's, complete with Automatics.

[Kevin French]

First off if your towing forget Chevy. Find youself a used Diesel, either a Ford or better yet a 3rd Gen Dodge.

I've got an '04' Dodge 3500 CTD and it will tow my 12,000lb 32' 5'ver @ 70+mph uphill. and get 10mpg.

[Keith Webster]

I lived out of a 38' travel trailer for 4 years while moving around Texas as an Asst. Manager for Mcoys Building Supply. I pulled it several times with my 1992 chevy Z71. The one thing that helped me with the pull was the 5 speed standard trans. Now with that said...I would not have wanted to pull it for rec. use....moving every year about 300 miles was ok...till I had a 6" lift kit and ballon tires put on it. After that mod. I pulled the trailer from Austin to Corpus and thank goodness that was the last one. The balloon tires made it hard to handle. Any....if you are going to pull it around for rec use I suggest getting a 3/4 ton or more with a diesel. You will pay more of the fuel but get better milage with it. Trust me if you feel the trailer behind all day long it will make for STRESS FILLED TRIP! Get a truck that doesn't know that it is pulling the trailer.

keith

[Robert Mickley]

Well from what I've been readinng up on and personal experiance all of the big 3 have issues, either now or in the past.

In no particular order.
Fords a fine truck, but I know 3 people persoanly that hate their new diesel. The new one has no where near the power of the old 7.3 litre

2 of these people have gone chevy and are happy.

But chevy had injector problems for a while and folks had problems with getting them serviced. If you want an automatic chevy is the way to go.. The new allison is a beast of a transmission.. Do some reasearch on it, has features that ford and dodge can't even come close to. yeah the ford tranny has hold back feature but you have to activate it, the chevy does it automaticly

Dodge had troubles years ago with the auto trannys burning up due to too small of an oil pan. A problem they have since corrected.

Now if you want a serious tow vehicle go buy a clas 6,7 or 8 tractor.
If you do entertain the thought of going class 6 or 7 stay away from the small cat engine. It's nothing more than a glorified perkins, cat mechanics call them perkapillars.

My sister and her husband are getting ready to purchase a 35 foot fifth wheel this year. They are selling everything and taking off. After seeing the cost of new 1 ton dually trucks we went looking at used class 8 tractors. They have decided to give it serious consideration.

[Jim O'Dell]

Yeah, Ford hurt themselves by going to the 6 liter deisel, at least until they can get the bugs worked out of it. I really thought that since Ford owns Cummins now, has for several years, that they could have pulled off a better ground up engine. The 7.3 was a workhorse. I bet the change was to get a little better mileage while still providing good deisel performance.
My big suggestion for you is on the frames. If you go with one of the domestic vehicles, get the dealer to put one up in the air on a lift for you to walk under and look at the frame. You don't have to tell them that is what you want to look at. As recently at 1 year ago, GM was still using a basic C channel frame material, at least on their 1/2 ton. It had some welded gussetts in places, but doesn't carry the overall strength that a full box frame gives. This most likely was the problem Anthony spoke about with the GM truck bent in the middle.
When Dodge first came out with the Cummins deisel engine, their main problems with the trucks was twisting the frames..too much torque for the frame to handle, especially overloaded the way a rancher would do hauling hay out of the bottom pasture. Not sure when they went fixed this problem, but only recently (last 3 years or so) went to fully boxed frames on their 1/2 ton trucks.
Ford uses fully boxed frames, even on the 1/2 tons. Not sure how long this has been going on, but according to the presenter when Lincoln did the roll out of the new LT truck, it has been that way for a while. He was pleased that Dodge had stepped up to the pump frame wise, and was equally displeased with GM's seemingly lack of concern. The presenter was not a Ford employee, though he was working for Ford as a presenter. He is a fairly well known automotive writer for the major magazines.
Anyway, long post to encourage you to pay attention to the frame of the truck. It's something most buyers never see. Jim.

[Brian Hale]

Something else i should have mentioned, exhaust brakes.

A diesel has little to no retarding power when you take your foot off the go pedal so an exhaust brake is a blessing. Basically, an e-brake is a vacuum actuated butterfly valve that closes off the exhaust flow when the engine is at idle, just like stuffing a potato in the exhaust pipe. This creates back pressure which makes the engine want to idle and not rev.

The transmissions discussed above with the "Hold back" feature simply lock up the torque converter so the engine rpm's are tied directly to the tranny rpm's. With the minimal retarding power of a diesel engine, these "hold back" features supply marginal retarding power. Adding an e-brake greatly increases this power, however, as far as i know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Dodge is the only manufacturer that will install an e-brake for use with it's automatic transmission that won't void the warranty.

As for one transmission being stronger/better built than the others, i have to disagree. Based on the experiences of our club members, (and lots of reading and conversations with aftermarket tranny builders) each tranny will last a long long time at stock HP levels up to about 60 additional hp. Once you increase power beyond the ~60 hp range, all the tranny's out there begin to slip the torque converter. This causes bits of the clutch material to become suspended in the trany fluid and make its way into the valve body, clogging up oil passages and leading to low oil pressure and eventual tranny failure.

The trouble folks are having with the new Ford 6.0L diesel are more than just complaints of low power. Several folks are experiencing sudden loss of power at highway speeds. This may/should have been corrected by now but it tends to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the buying public. I'd guess all new developments have bugs that need to be worked out.

Brian :)

[Brian Hale]

...............since Ford owns Cummins now, has for several years, ........

This is one of those urban legends that just won't go away....


Ford does not, and never has, owned Cummins.

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/index.cfm

Question #28

Brian :)