Systainers?

[Tom Bender]

In my small shop most things are kept in drawers and anything like packaging is turfed out rather than claiming space. Tools like drills share bits etc with other drills and are easily accessed from drawers. If my router lived in a Systainer the accessories would have to live elsewhere, at least most of them would. My key is drawers sized to the contents.

519364

So this is what works for me. When the work is not in the shop but is in walking distance I get in a lot of steps. When further away it's a bigger challenge, but that's not often.

Clearly I am missing something. How do Systainers help?

[Jim Becker]

This is totally a subjective thing, Tom, both for personal preferences around organization as well as functionally how we use our tools. So you are not "missing anything". It's just a choice.

I've actually moved to a more formal Systainer arrangement for my portable power tools which while mostly Festool, also includes some DeWalt devices. I even took three of the oldest that were in "Classic" systainers and put them in current generation boxes to normalize access. (The three older Systainers will be used for static storage space) A recent project saw me building shop cabinets with drawer/shelves to make access to the Systainers easier. And that means I actually put tools back and out of the way immediately when I'm done using them because it's easy. That was not the case when the Systainers were just randomly stacked.

Now I'm not personally going to do Systainers for hardware and doo-dads. I have other storage for that, much like you show in your photo. But I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to use the Systainer organizers as an alternative. It's a good, functional system.

This is where I'm at presently. There will be two more cabinets stacked above the two near the door.

519365

[Jamie Buxton]

Systainers might be useful to folks who work out of their trucks. But I'm with you: packaging, even high-quality packaging, is kinda useless in a shop. If Festool offered tools without the systainer, that's what I'd be buying.

[John Pendery]

Seems to me that Festool’s entire product line is developed with folks who work in the trades in mind. I have my systainers loaded on festool hand trucks (which I find pretty crappy and flimsy, but they work) organized for installations on job sites. Super fast to throw in a truck or van and roll out and stay organized on site. I’ve worked around plenty of guys who poke fun at systainers and Festool, but also see how disorganized those guys usually are on job sites. In the shop I’m predominantly using larger stationary tools, but if I need a tool in a systainer I know exactly where it is. I also have tool cabinets and shop made drawers. They each serve a purpose. I don’t see it as one vs another or one is right and the other is wrong.

[Cameron Wood]

I agree. I have two systainers, that the Domino and tenons came in. The tenon one is sort of OK, but takes up a lot of room, needs a big place to sit to be opened, and I worry that it will break. The other one just takes up room- I should give it away.

I do have boxes for some tools- power planes (stay tuned for post on this), beam saw, and wheel sander, that need some protection. Also router bits are in a box that must be taken out and opened, but most other stuff is in a drawer or on a shelf.

Not even good for working out of a truck, IMO. I have a work truck (van) that is largely based on drawers. I see endless van layouts proudly displayed that are stuffed with boxes where adding one sheet of plywood or basically any materials would make almost everything inaccessible. For an onsite carpenter who must haul a whole tool kit to any given job and maybe unload the truck every night it makes sense- my former employee does this with I think Milwaukee boxes and he's a natural who leaves other guys in the dust.

[Richard Coers]

I just bought a fifth wheel camping trailer and now doing work at the camp. Both repairing and doing some little hobby work. I wouldn't be without the sustainers now.

[Michael Burnside]

It’s just a preference/choice and depends on your workflow. I’m a huge fan of drawers and Systainers to keep things in their place, organized and dust free. My workflow is methodical and compartmentalized so drawers and sustainers help me keep streamlined and never too far into chaos. I’m pretty disciplined about getting new tools after the others are put away. I just can’t work and be creative in chaos.

I’m presently building an 8020 workbench I designed myself completely around how it work and how I will store the tools I use. Will be posting that in the workshop forum when I’m done.

[roger wiegand]

Fortunately I have a big hayloft to store the empty systainers because I can't bear to throw them away.

[Rod Sheridan]

Tom, Systainers help me when I have to pack tools for work, if I only worked in my shop I wouldn’t have a use for them

Stack a few systainers on the vacuum, wheel them to where you’re working, a very nice system

Regards, Rod

[Michael Schuch]

Luckily I have a large attic space where I can store Systainers and every other tool specific case I have collected over the years... I would actually hate to have to throw them out.

The only tool specific case I actually use is my fathers 1950's Stanley router case with separate power planer base and door hinge template. It actually makes a nice all in one kit when hanging doors. All my other cases take up WAY too much space and have WAY too little storage for all of the accessories. I am not a contractor which is where I could see an actual use for the Systainer system. My shop is about 100 yards from the house so when I do a project at the house I load up the back up the pickup with the tools I need to minimize extra unwanted exercise from walking back and forth (which I invariably do anyway but at least not with heavy tools, usually.)

For working in the shop cases just get in the way and add extra work for unpacking and putting away the tool.

I do like the look of the Milwaukee "PackOut" system and I do have a Milwaukee 18v shop vac... but then I remember that I have absolutely NO USE for such a cool system!

[Mike Rambour]

I always thought systainers were a waste of space and for people who don't actually work in the shop, just show off the shop to the neighbors. Then I got a Domino and the second systainer full of Domino's. My 3rd Festool was the drill. And just like a drug, I was hooked, not just on what I perceive to be pretty high quality tools but the systainer storage system, i started buying a lot of Festool's and also empty Systainer's to store other power tools and hand tools and making drawer cabinets to hold them in. The systainers have helped me tremendously organize my shop so that now I don't waste a few hours every day looking for tools, I know exactly where they are. Also convenient when I have to do work at my mothers or daughter's house. Systainers are a organization tool for some people like I was before, tools all over the workbench or in milk crates on the floor is good organization, but I changed after a few systainers.

[Tom M King]

This was the beginnings of my "systainer" waterproof toolbox system in 2012 built in a house I was flipping. The collection has grown considerably since then. When the boxes get dirty, I just hose them off. I bought a vinyl cutter some years ago to put more professional looking labels on them but all that stuff is still in the boxes it came in.

Those boxes were 20 and 25 dollars in 2012 and a few years after that when I started buying them. I still buy some as the tool collection grows, separates, and organization continues to specialize, but I think they're up to $45 or so now.

It's nice to keep things together that go together so I can grab any box and have stuff organized and know where it is. I need to build a bigger shop for more cubbies because I've run out of room and the boxes just go up. Last I counted there was exactly a gross of them but I only have 100 cubbies that allow me to pull out a specific box without having to handle the others.

Tools can stay any number of years between uses and come out just like I put them away.

[Ray Selinger]

The amount of time lost to digging around for tools and things in a day adds up . Even if you are not the contractor, being an efficient employee makes you more productive without having to work any harder.

[Michael Burnside]

That's nicely organized Tom, exactly how it should be IMHO. I pay homage to Festool Systainers and Milwaukee Packout (inherited quite a few when my father passed, doubling my collection) and it works our quite well. I always know where a tool is and all the accessories or complimentary tools that go with it are stored. Takes seconds to get and not much longer to put away.

[Jimmy Harris]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of unnecessary complications. And to me, the systainer stuff is an overly complicated problem, disguised as a solution. It takes up too much room and is harder to access than standard drawers and cabinets. Why pull out a box, move it to a table, to open a box to get what I want, and then have to replace the box, when I can just slide out a drawer to get what I want?

It would make sense if I were a contractor and doing lots of work on location. It's not useless. But for me, it's just a hassle that takes up space that I hate to throw out because it might devalue the tool, should I ever decide to sell it.

The systainer is actually the reason I didn't buy an ETS 125 ROS recently, even though that was the sander I wanted. I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was spending more just for junk I didn't want/need.

[Todd Zucker]

I find the SYS-AZ Drawers installed in a rolling cabinet useful. They pull out far enough to let me keep the Systainer lid open until I am finished using the tool, and I typically only use one tool at a time, so it keeps things tidy.

[Jim Becker]

I find the SYS-AZ Drawers installed in a rolling cabinet useful. They pull out far enough to let me keep the Systainer lid open until I am finished using the tool, and I typically only use one tool at a time, so it keeps things tidy.
While I didn't use the SYS-AZ dawers...I made my own equivalent...and agree. Slide them out, open the box and so forth. Lesser used tools are "bottom" of individual short stacks so rarely will a box need to be physically removed. A drawer for every box is overkill in most cases, but not an issue for me with how I planned things out. I didn't do rolling, however, as that wasn't a good fit for my shop.

[Cameron Wood]

I'm getting a bigger band saw, & so working on the far corner of the shop, where the least functional stuff drifts to, including the two systainers mentioned upthread.

I measured the one that has the domino assortment- the actual space holding the parts is 532 CI, and the overall box is 1184 CI, for a 44% efficiency.

If they go in cut off milk cartons, they fit with an additional empty carton in a box 790 CI- I think I'll do that.

[George Yetka]

100% the systainer is made for the mobile installer. But I can see its worth in the shop as long as the shop is 1000 square feet or more. In a 500 square foot shop I feel that you use up too much real estate per tool. I have 8 sanders in a drawer that is 6" tall 30" deep and 30" or so wide as well as the accessories that go with them. My Track saw/ Of1400/Domino/2 palm routers/ direct accessories that came in each box all fit in a drawer 12" high 36" wide 24 deep. 2 cordless 12 volts/ drill set/jigsaw/multi tool all fit in a 6" tall 30" deep and 30" If I were to have each in their own systainer It would be 16" wide tower 24' tall. I dont go anywhere with these tools I have another set of portable tools in the truck for going out. If I had 1200 square feet and room for being spread out I see the appeal of systainer drawers.

[Edward Weber]

Systainers are just like every other proprietary tool brands storage system. if they work for you great.
I don't work on location, only in the shop. Most tools come in a blow molded cases, which are basically worthless, other than to keep dust off of them. Far too large and no room for bits, blades, discs, etc.
Most of my tools, I keep on shelves, drawers, etc. as long as the case isn't too oversized, I'll use it but far too often they get tossed.
I did like the older Milwaukee metal boxes you used to get when you got a new tool, they were very functional.

[Jim Becker]

While a lot of folks associate Systainers with Festool, it's important to consider that a number of other tool brands, such as Makita, also use the Tanos Systainers for various tools in their arsinals. At the same time, there are many folks who have standardized on Milwaukee's Packout containers in a similar way that some of us use Systainers. It's all a subjective choice as I mentioned previously. Do what works for you.

[Michael Burnside]

George and Edward both have good points but ultimately it's like Jim says, it's a subjective choice at the end of the day. There is some loss in efficiency using them vs. drawer storage. That said, one particularly thoughtful choice for the newer Systainers are the integrated rails for drawer slides, either custom or Festool brand. I used the relatively inexpensive versions (about ~40 bucks for 4 pairs) and they actually worked very well. I was surprised at how compact, durable and easy to install they were.

I'm also a fan of the Packout system by Milwaukee for larger boxes, drawers, bins and accessories, but those are very much as George points out, only meant if you have the space. They're more durable but a lot less efficient for space. In a pinch I used a Packout box to rest my friend's motorcycle on to fix a flat. Yea, they're tough LOL.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Systainers are more than just a plastic box for storing tools.
They are also the functional packaging for those tools.

To understand the importance of that, you have to become familiar with German recycling law, from 1972 to present.

This page from Festool Australia https://www.festool.com.au/news/SYSTAINERS-reducing-packaging-material-and-waste gives a hint of what Festool used to stress on their websites.

I used to wonder why Festool was so expensive and why I had to pay for an expensive container I had no real use of. I looked into it (2006) and found out the Systainer wasn't something optional. In order to comply with German and later EU packaging laws, they had to be used.

[George Yetka]

In the past I let them pile up as I purchase new tools and when I have a stack of 6 or more I post them for sale. If the pile is high enough I usually get a free tool out of it. I find myself wanting to hold on to the 2 cxs 12 systainers. They have a nice organizer built into the lid
519863

[glenn bradley]

I must confess that I have kept a couple. One for the track saw and one for the Domino. All others were sent to recycle heaven and these two are next. I do not do job site work and do mot need to tote my tools so fixed organization (drawers and custom fixtures) serve me best. I agree that it is subjective. If stack-ables and carry-ables work for you, then that is the right way to go.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I must confess that I have kept a couple. One for the track saw and one for the Domino. All others were sent to recycle heaven and these two are next. I do not do job site work and do mot need to tote my tools so fixed organization (drawers and custom fixtures) serve me best. I agree that it is subjective. If stack-ables and carry-ables work for you, then that is the right way to go.
There's a bit of irony.
Festo decided on using an end use product (Systainer) as a way of working with the German Packaging Ordinance to help reduce/eliminate waste going to landfills - only to have them come to the USA and end up in a landfill. LOL!

Gotta love irony :).

That aside, you should really stick them on CL or FB Marketplace and sell them. They fetch a decent amount of money & sell quick.

[Jim Becker]

In the past I let them pile up as I purchase new tools and when I have a stack of 6 or more I post them for sale. If the pile is high enough I usually get a free tool out of it. I find myself wanting to hold on to the 2 cxs 12 systainers. They have a nice organizer built into the lid
519863

My CSX-18 came with the same organizer lid and I've already taken advantage of that when I was at my daughter's apartment to assemble a new bed frame for her as I had to adapt the old headboard to the new frame.

[Keith Outten]

I only have one Festool Systainer, it resides on a shelf since I brought my 6" sander home.
I have no use for the Systainer so I think i will offer it as a FreeStuff Prize here.

I have decided to reduce the size of my tool inventory, mostly because the number of tools and machines have now outgrown the space in my workshop. Seems like a good way to solve a problem and help others here at The Creek.

[Edward Weber]

I only have one Festool Systainer, it resides on a shelf since I brought my 6" sander home.
I have no use for the Systainer so I think i will offer it as a FreeStuff Prize here.

I have decided to reduce the size of my tool inventory, mostly because the number of tools and machines have now outgrown the space in my workshop. Seems like a good way to solve a problem and help others here at The Creek.

While I have no interest in sustainers, I find your situation and solution to be very altruistic.

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Ed, I will definitely be adding to the list of things to donate as time goes by.

[Lee Ludden]

I have a small shop, and I purchased a lot of Systainers before I ever bought a Festool tool. I keep tools organized by project type, so when I need to do something around the house or offsite, I can know I have everything I need to do the job. Electrical, copper plumbing, PVC plumbing, drywall, painting, masonry drilling, etc. Things I don’t do every day, and don’t want to forget something important.

Even inside my shop, I keep all the accessories for the tools in the systainer with the tool. My shop is more of a general shop, so I might do automotive work, machine work, welding, 3D printing, or woodworking in there, so some tools may go a long time between uses. The systainers keep them organized and out of the way.

Lee

[William Hodge]

I like it. I'm going to outfit my shop. As seen of FB Marketplace.
https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/405251759_7685946838099295_7404564315316900015_n.j pg?stp=c0.29.261.261a_dst-jpg_p261x260&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=Fe28PcnsBooQ7kNvgGjSoF3&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AYBAHcFRdiZBaNlMuC8e1dzgg2JVezj_rFDd8RGo4_8s bg&oe=66538C36





$100

Festool systainers. All sizes many different styles

Holbrook, NY



(https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2095348647480364/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&__tn__=!%3AD)

[andrew whicker]

This was the beginnings of my "systainer" waterproof toolbox system in 2012 built in a house I was flipping. The collection has grown considerably since then. When the boxes get dirty, I just hose them off. I bought a vinyl cutter some years ago to put more professional looking labels on them but all that stuff is still in the boxes it came in.

Those boxes were 20 and 25 dollars in 2012 and a few years after that when I started buying them. I still buy some as the tool collection grows, separates, and organization continues to specialize, but I think they're up to $45 or so now.

It's nice to keep things together that go together so I can grab any box and have stuff organized and know where it is. I need to build a bigger shop for more cubbies because I've run out of room and the boxes just go up. Last I counted there was exactly a gross of them but I only have 100 cubbies that allow me to pull out a specific box without having to handle the others.

Tools can stay any number of years between uses and come out just like I put them away.

Tom,

Do you do a lot of shop work and on site work? If so, does that mean having double the tools?

My problem is that I am using many of the same tools on site as I do in my shop. Staying organized and not forgetting tools to bring on site is a constant issue for me (and I drive a truck, not a van). I think the best solution is something along the lines of what you have, but would require me doubling up on all the tooling I might bring on site.

One of the reasons I dislike on site work is the disorganization. I don't mind the actual work, but I always feel like I'm having to figure out how to do something without the right tool at some point in the install. it seems no matter how careful I make a list, I always forget that one tool that helps in a pinch.

On the other hand, doubling up on tooling is obviously expensive.