Making screen panels for a lake view

[Tom DiBiasio]

At my lake house I have an outbuilding of sorts (we call it the cabana) where one side is completely open with a great view of the water front. I want to screen in this side of the building to keep the bugs out this summer. I plan on building a series of simple screen panels with poplar frames and domino joinery. The panels will be 37” wide by 72” high. My question is do you think a panel this size would require a horizontal rail in addition to the top and bottom rails. Either 1/3 way from the top or bottom? My preference would be to have no additional rails as it will slightly obstruct the view of the lake when sitting in my lounge chair enjoying a cocktail. I guess I could just build one and see how rigid it is but thought I would ask here first.

[Cameron Wood]

Yes. the screen will bow in the sides without.

[Kevin Jenness]

Depends on the width of your stiles. If you want narrow stiles use a stretcher.

I avoid poplar for exterior work as it has little rot resistance. Look around for torrefied wood. Western red cedar, Atlantic white cedar, Spanish cedar, sipo and sapele are worth considering.

[Mel Fulks]

Green (in color) poplar is pretty durable. Used a lot of it in employments making stuff for exterior use. Some contractors doing
high grade work, will ask for it , much better than some more expensive stuff, like pine . The white poplar is fine for interior trim and
does not exude …pine-sap.

[Kevin Jenness]

Mel, can you get poplar that is primarily heartwood? I have never seen it come that way in these parts. I worked on a large house trimmed outside in poplar with a lot of attention to flashing, sealing end grain and paint maintenance and it all went to mush within 20 years.

[Richard Coers]

Green (in color) poplar is pretty durable. Used a lot of it in employments making stuff for exterior use. Some contractors doing
high grade work, will ask for it , much better than some more expensive stuff, like pine . The white poplar is fine for interior trim and
does not exude …pine-sap.
Actually poplar heartwood is rated as; Rot Resistance: (https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-durability/) Heartwood is rated as being moderately durable to non-durable; susceptible to insect attack.
https://www.wood-database.com/yellow-poplar/#

[Mel Fulks]

I think a number of woods are played down to boost sales of other woods more expensive. I trust what I’ve seen more than some of the
books, and I think that’s the way of many. That makes for choice ! Lot of soft pine trim is used outside and pine is , I think less
durable than green (color) poplar is constantly chosen by many in the trades , while something a little more expensive makes some
people sleep better, and that’s OK.

[Kevin Jenness]

I don't question your experience with poplar heartwood, Mel, but it just isn't available here as such. I have read elsewhere of old growth poplar being quite durable, and we have a meeting house in my town trimmed out with old growth white pine ca. 1890 which is going strong. I wouldn't bet $.010 on the same building built today with second growth material. Perhaps the same is true of today's poplar as opposed to the old material.

[Holmes Anderson]

I assume the screen frames will not be supported on the sides by the framing of the building because otherwise this wouldn't be a problem. 2x screen frames should be strong enough without support on the sides. Sort of like a lattice frame. Not sure why wood species is a concern for something protected from rain by the roof and ventilation front and back to dry it out quickly.

[John Lanciani]

Personally, I'd use Ipe or one of the other tropicals sold as decking. Much stiffer than poplar so you'll be able to use narrower rails and stiles, and no worries about rot resistance. The only domestic I'd consider would be white oak.

[Larry Edgerton]

I made some LARGE screens a few years ago out of 1" Azek with an embedded aluminum stiffener and a spring loaded mounting system to keep the screens tight. Worked well, no maintenance.

[Richard Coers]

I think a number of woods are played down to boost sales of other woods more expensive. I trust what I’ve seen more than some of the
books, and I think that’s the way of many. That makes for choice ! Lot of soft pine trim is used outside and pine is , I think less
durable than green (color) poplar is constantly chosen by many in the trades , while something a little more expensive makes some
people sleep better, and that’s OK.
A conspiracy theory? I trust what I have used more than books, but not believing science has become a real issue these days.

[Mark Gibney]

If you hinge the screens to each other so they can open/close like an accordion this will keep the stiles from bowing.
But if hinging is out of the question I think a mid-rail or wider stiles will be needed.

[Jimmy Harris]

Finish the poplar in poly or something similar if you're worried. Then it doesn't matter how rot and insect resistant the wood is, it only matters how resistant the finish is.

I've got some wooden parts on my boat I made from scrap poplar, finished in poly. Zero issues despite the constant exposure to rain, lake water, bugs, and sun.

If you're worried about strength, you might consider running a groove down the wood and inserting an aluminum strip. I've done this a few times in the past. Ultimately it would be better to choose a stronger wood or design. But if you try it first how you want it now and run into problems after construction, this is a good compromise solution to keep you from having to rebuild the whole thing. Just run the aluminum strips so the width provides the strength of support, and not the thickness.

[James Jayko]

I have basically the same setup at the lake. No, I don't have cross braces. The frames are ~1 3/4", with the stiff type of screen (not the nylon mesh ultra light weight stuff).

[Tom M King]

How big is the total opening before installing any panels?

[William Hodge]

The choice of wood can depend on the amount of water hitting the screens. Some screen houses have pretty good over hangs, and the screens don't go all the way to the floor. In that case, I would use Eastern White Pine. For wet locations, I use Sapele.

Weatherstripping the stops that hold the screens in helps keep the smallest bugs out.

[Mel Fulks]

A conspiracy theory? I trust what I have used more than books, but not believing science has become a real issue these days.

Not a conspiracy theory , just a good understanding of home -boy “ my Grampa says the wood around here is the best, I don’t like
green wood ….when I want GREEN I USE PAINT”. Lot of “ Scientists” thought Einstein was a nut. Well, he wasn’t a nut , he was a
ugly guy who loved young girls and figured out a way to be sought by young girls. THATS GOOD SCIENCE !
Oops! I forgot to say he married a cousin and dumped her soon as got famous.

[Bill Dufour]

Sit in your chair and relax look at the view. Then decide where the cross pieces should not be placed. Do the same for standing at the rail. Now decide where to place them.
Do you want a good view or a geometrically correct screen, golden proportions and all that ?
I still chuckle when I see the new improved high school with fancy welded awnings above the windows to keep the sun out. Well done and a good idea. a huge waste of money and continuing maintenance costs for the ones on the north side of the buildings.
Kind of like San Francisco promoting solar power in one of the foggiest cities around.
Bill D

[Richard Coers]

Not a conspiracy theory , just a good understanding of home -boy “ my Grampa says the wood around here is the best, I don’t like
green wood ….when I want GREEN I USE PAINT”. Lot of “ Scientists” thought Einstein was a nut. Well, he wasn’t a nut , he was a
ugly guy who loved young girls and figured out a way to be sought by young girls. THATS GOOD SCIENCE !
Oops! I forgot to say he married a cousin and dumped her soon as got famous.
Sosrry Mel, but very little of that makes sense to me. No idea what young girls has to do with wood rot resistance.

[Mel Fulks]

Sosrry Mel, but very little of that makes sense to me. No idea what young girls has to do with wood rot resistance.

It’s ok Richard , I didn’t understand that “Sosrry” word and It’s not in the dictionary.

[William Hodge]

It’s ok Richard , I didn’t understand that “Sosrry” word and It’s not in the dictionary.

Try using The Google. "Sossry" is right there. I never knew, hadn't come across it, added a new facet to this jewel of a day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI-mVIROgAc&list=OLAK5uy_nx1kkGdm9VCwxyyoUjEMp4X2pNUTX5VrA

[Tom DiBiasio]

Thank you for all the great discussion - to make things a little clearer what I am trying to accomplish I will post a few pics to help illustrate my question - as they say a picture is worth 1000 words !!!!

This is the cabana I am speaking about - I will remove the current railings you see in this image - dont worry I will be replacing them with SS wire system to prevent someone from falling through the screen and falling to the ground.
518835

In this image you can see the area I will screen in - note that I will replace the left hand railing post with a full length 6x6 going all the way to the header.
518836

In this image this is what I am thinking for the simple rail and style screen panels - the lighter color brown would be the removal panels. I will remove them and store them indoors in the winter and most likely replace them with some OSB panels to keep the winter snow out.
518837


Thanks again for all the good discussion and hopefully this allows a clearer view of what I am trying accomplish and help get some advise if I would need to build the panels with mid rails or not.

[Tom M King]

Since you're going to be taking part of the opening with more verticals anyway if you use panels, I would just add some more verticals, maybe just 2x4's, and staple the screen over what's there without bothering to make panels. Use stainless steel or monel staples and cover the edges with strips of wood held on with trim screws that can easily come back off.

I wouldn't bother with cables either, but just use a black steel mesh wire since you have plenty of supports for it. We have a screened porch built much like I described just using hardware cloth across the bottom. It's been used for 44 years now and I've only replaced the screen once. Even the hardware cloth doesn't seem to block the view through it.

edited to add: Here is a picture this morning.

[Tom Bender]

OP Tom
What will you do with the opening for the stairs? To install a door you should redo the steps and add a landing outside sufficient to stand on while opening the door. Alternatively you could install a wall, front to back, even with the 6 x 6 post and put a door in that. Then you would have a place for coat hooks and stuff (shoes, fishing gear, shotguns, whatever).

[John TenEyck]

If you have one giant opening, then I would join the individual panels together along their stiles with some sort of mechanical fastner, such as furniture bolts. That should eliminate bowing of the individual stiles such that no intermediate rails are needed.

As far as wood goes, nearly any wood will last a really long time if it's painted and the paint is maintained.

John