Building another 4 x 4 outdoor dining table

[Brian Runau]

I built one out of cypress years back and time to replace it. Teak is going for $75 bd ft locally, so that's a no go. What other wood would you consider for an outdoor table? Would mahogany hold up if left out in the elements over the winter?

Thanks.

Brian

[Jamie Buxton]

Thermally-modified wood.

[John Kananis]

Ipe works well outdoors as does white oak.

[John TenEyck]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Spanish cedar and most any mahogany are good choices, too, and best left unfinished unless you like maintenance or keep a cover over the table when not in use, as I do.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Plywood, covered with light canvas glued down with Titebond 2 or 3 . I prefer 2. Paint it , it will last . Nothing new, goes back to
at least 1890 s . Was used on wooden ship hulls. Easy to look up lots of info.

[John Goodin]

I am a fan of ipe. Built my deck and balcony out of it as well as two Adirondack chairs. With an oil ir looks great.

[Mel Fulks]

Ipe is real good. I have an Ipe deck , don’t remember when I made it. Probably at least 20 years ago. But I wouldn’t put one deck over
another one without the upper one sloped and covered with canvas to keep stuff from falling down on lower one …..unless lower deck
is not used at same time , or has large umbrellas.

[Bill Dufour]

Is the ipe sold today still as rot resistant as years ago? Redwood today is not rot resistant. It is lucky to last 20 years in the ground now. I wonder if todays ipe is now second growth, fast rotting.
Bill D

[Mel Fulks]

It’s possible that it might have some sap edges. But I haven’t heard or read about defects. Redwood is soft , I’ve seen it cursed and
thrown out ‘cuz people didn’t know it was so soft. But….when it is thrown out , it’s quickly picked up by neighbors, so don’t bother with
paying someone to get rid of it !

[John TenEyck]

Is the ipe sold today still as rot resistant as years ago? Redwood today is not rot resistant. It is lucky to last 20 years in the ground now. I wonder if todays ipe is now second growth, fast rotting.
Bill D

As far as I know, yes, it is still very rot resistant, at least the stuff I used to build my deck with about 9 years ago is. That's the good news. The bad news is Ipe' is a PITA to keep looking good (and probably goes for any wood used for a horizontal application like a deck, picnic table, etc). I have used 3 different oil products, from Ipe' Oil, to Penofin, to Armstrong and Clark. All have gotten black mold on/in them and the wood after a single NE winter. When that happens it's a nightmare to completely remove it. I was foolish enough to do that 3 times. I even talked with the folks at A&C who assured me their product was different. Wrong. If it's got organic oil in it, it's going to happen.

I finally found "One Time", an acrylic finish with no organic oil. The answer to my prayers. The test patch I started with (I finally learned not to do the whole deck w/o proof.) is now 3 years old and has no mold on it. It's faded a little, but that's fine. I'll be able to renew it when I want w/o the nightmare cleanly process. I've been power washing my deck for the last two years to rid it of the last of the old finish and stains. The gray isn't all that unattractive, truthfully, and would be fine for a beach house, but I'm going to give it one more shot to look great, with One Time.

John

[Mark Gibney]

Ipe is an extremely destructive choice of wood to use. A quick google search will show you most of the ipe for sale here in the USA is from illegal logging.

We have plenty of north American woods that will do the job here.
We generally agree that buying well made American / Canadian / European made tools is a better idea than mass-produced low-wage Asian knock offs, for various reasons. Many of those same reasons are the same when choosing wood.

[Brian Runau]

I can't get ipe locally either. Had same problem with mold/mildew even using a marine oil based stain. May do cypress again and use the "one time" finish on it. Thanks Brian

[Brian Runau]

As far as I know, yes, it is still very rot resistant, at least the stuff I used to build my deck with about 9 years ago is. That's the good news. The bad news is Ipe' is a PITA to keep looking good (and probably goes for any wood used for a horizontal application like a deck, picnic table, etc). I have used 3 different oil products, from Ipe' Oil, to Penofin, to Armstrong and Clark. All have gotten black mold on/in them and the wood after a single NE winter. When that happens it's a nightmare to completely remove it. I was foolish enough to do that 3 times. I even talked with the folks at A&C who assured me their product was different. Wrong. If it's got organic oil in it, it's going to happen.

I finally found "One Time", an acrylic finish with no organic oil. The answer to my prayers. The test patch I started with (I finally learned not to do the whole deck w/o proof.) is now 3 years old and has no mold on it. It's faded a little, but that's fine. I'll be able to renew it when I want w/o the nightmare cleanly process. I've been power washing my deck for the last two years to rid it of the last of the old finish and stains. The gray isn't all that unattractive, truthfully, and would be fine for a beach house, but I'm going to give it one more shot to look great, with One Time.

John

Thanks for the suggestion. Brian

[Michael Burnside]

I guess I just see my time and durability of material as value. Given your parameters of a table constantly exposed to the elements, I'd go a different route. For the top I'd use Polywood since Teak is outrageous or I'd just buy a 40x78 Polywood table for 800 bucks since even if I pay myself 80 bucks an hour, I don't think I could completely finish a table in 10 hours. Anything else you do isn't going to last and will require constant maintenance given your environmental parameters.

I have several Polywood furniture pieces that sit out by my firepit, rain, shine, winter, spring, summer, fall, they look exactly as they did new 6 years ago.

Now, if something is under a patio/covered then I'd consider some other choices, but otherwise, not worth my time personally.

[John TenEyck]

Ipe is an extremely destructive choice of wood to use. A quick google search will show you most of the ipe for sale here in the USA is from illegal logging.

We have plenty of north American woods that will do the job here.
We generally agree that buying well made American / Canadian / European made tools is a better idea than mass-produced low-wage Asian knock offs, for various reasons. Many of those same reasons are the same when choosing wood.

That does not seem consistent with what Advantage Lumber says, and I think they are the largest importer of Ipe' in the US.

https://www.advantagelumber.com/about.htm

I agree that using local materials is the best option when available. I could not find a local or even US derived wood that would last 50 years with minimal care. Ipe' will. Black locust might have been an option, if it were available, and if it were available in decking lengths.

John

[Michael Burnside]

John, I'm not trying to get into this argument, but I've heard it mentioned a time or two myself. I do believe there are sustainable sources but just look up "ipe lumber deforestation" and you will see several reliable sources discussing the deforestation problems associated with imported lumber such as ipe.

[John TenEyck]

I didn't think there was an argument. I provided a link that appears to show at least some importers are following whatever rules the international community has agreed on. But I can see how that was misleading as there is a greater problem with loss of Ipe' acreage. Unfortunately, it's the same story that's been repeated countless times, including here in the US.

Taken all together, Mark is absolutely correct that we should use local materials when we can. The problem comes in sourcing wood that will work for a given application, affording it if you can find it, and sometimes accepting significant compromises. Ipe' didn't get to be popular just because it looks pretty (at least for a short while). It has outstanding durability even with no care given it.

John

[Andrew Hughes]

I know of a wood that’s probably more rot resistant then ipe. Apitong. It may not be a beautiful but just as difficult to machine and extremely durable and might be less expensive.
I second the vote for domestic wood. Everything is in play if it’s painted even Douglas fir.
Good Luck

[Brian Runau]

what do you think of this? Teak like? thanks brian

https://www.samsclub.com/p/6-pc-dining-set-teak/prod9900191?xid=plp_product_35

[John TenEyck]

I think you can't build it for anywhere near that money.

John

[Brian Runau]

I think you can't build it for anywhere near that money.

John

Absolutely not, but quality? Brian

[John TenEyck]

Absolutely not, but quality? Brian

Looks like a kit, so the joinery won't be heirloom quality. I wouldn't be surprised if it's put together with bolts and barrel nuts, which do a good job but require tightening now and then if used outdoors.

You get what you pay for.

John

[John Kananis]

There's zero chance you can come anywhere near the price of pre-built teak furniture... it's taxed differently than raw lumber when exported. As far as quality, what John said. And a far a choice of material, it all turns grey. Yes, teak will last longer but the return on investment (if you're building yourself) is pretty poor.

[Tom Bender]

You could build a nice table and give it a top of Trex or similar. Not high style but you can still have fun with joinery and it will outlive you.