Random Orbital Sanders (again)

[David Kenagy]

I looked at Sawmill Creek threads from 2020 until now. I figured that tool costs, availability and opinions change after 4 or more years. Over that time, there were favorable comments about Festool, Bosch and Mirka. My typical use is flat surfaces on cabinet faces and panels, not many edges (which are tough on any paper). I'm replacing a 30-year-old, 2-handed 5" Porter Cable (no dust collection, pressure-sensitive adhesive discs), and assume that a 6" disc would add weight without making enough difference in my sanding time. So at present, I've heard the following (but don't know how many of these are valid):

- Festool 125 EQ Plus $475
- Festool 125 REQ Plus $259
Great sanders, not such great proprietary sandpaper, but you can use Abranet with them. The site shows a small difference in the sanding stroke of these two, and greater weight for the "REQ". Maybe the cheaper one doesn't connect to a vacuum? I can't tell what the $200 difference is. There is also a "Rotex" that folks on this site praised for the ability to handle aggressive sanding (not my typical need). FWW rated Festool and Mirka "best" (but not best value)

- Bosch ROS20VSC $90 (Home Depot)
An older model (ROS65VS) was praised on this site, but is this in the same class with the others???

- Mirka 550 X CV $742 (Amazon)
Great sandpaper.
Popular with pros, but would anything about it be worth $300 more than Festool or Mirka for my uses?

- 3M Extract 88762 $416 (Amazon)
I've seen fewer comments about this one. A saleslady (Woodcraft) says her smaller hands fit this one better than the ones she sells. A YouTube opinion puts it mid-value and mid-cost between Festool/Mirka and Entry-level sanders; but its cost is pretty close to Festool. Sandpaper might be especially good from 3M?


TL/DR:
Are there tool choices I've completely overlooked in this price & quality range?
For a 65yo 'serious amateur' whose sanding is mostly flat panels, drawer fronts & cabinets, what would give Festool or 3M the edge? Is Mirka even worth considering?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Disclaimer, I have never used a Festool sander or any other Festool tool. I have the Bosch and I have a Dewalt. After reading a review I bought the Bosch and have since retired the Dewalt. It's in the bottom drawer of my rolling tool cabinet. I had forgotten I even had it until I went into the drawer a couple days ago to get a drill. The Bosch works well and with an adapter, IIRC it came with it, hooks to my shop vacuum and does a decent job of containing sanding dust.

[Richard Coers]

If 10 people reply, you will get 15 suggestions. Good luck. I stopped suggesting tools, it's a huge waste of time. All of those you are looking at will sand wood.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I've retired a 5" Porter Cable, 5" Dewalt and 6" Bosch. I now have the Festool ETS EC 150/5 and am super happy with it. You indicated weight of a 6" sander but the Festool is significantly lighter than the Bosch 6". It's been a while since I had the 5" sanders and haven't compared specs but I suspect it is comparable in weight if not lighter than the 5" sanders I've owned. Festool does a great job of reducing weight of the tool while optimizing function (including dust extraction).

I also have the cordless 5" Festool with edge attachment. I'm very happy with it but it isn't my go to sander. The Festool 150 is a terrific sander and an improvement over all the others I have experience with.

[John TenEyck]

I have the Bosch ROS65VC because it was the lowest cost of those I considered higher end sanders. I have not been disappointed, flawless finish. It has great balance with the 6" pad, but is not as stable with the 5", which I never use unless the media only comes in that size.

I like the 65 so much I bought the Bosch ROS20VSC. It's OK for smaller projects and face frames, etc, but it's not in the same class as the 65, especially for larger surfaces. Neither the control nor the finish is as good, and the dust cannister fills up fast and is a pain to open. I suspect there are more user friendly 5" sanders.

John

[Jim Becker]

Just one thing...the 9 hole pattern with a center hole (for better dust extraction) that Festool uses isn't really "proprietary" and all the major abrasives suppliers support it if you want to buy abrasive from other sources. With the growing popularity of mesh abrasives which last a long time and for all practical purposes have "infinite" holes for dust collection, hole pattern no longer matters. Just be sure to use an interface pad on any sander you buy if you choose to go the mesh abrasive route.

Regardless of what brand sander you buy, I will attest that there is good value in buying "a good one" instead of a throw away. Why? Less vibration typically which is easier on your fingers, hands and wrists as well as generally better dust extraction. That's why I went Festool back in the mid-2000s...I got tired of my hands going numb after only a few minutes of sanding.

I also really like the 150mm/6" format...it covers a lot of ground and with current generation sanders, there's not a meaningful weight difference over a 125mm/5" sander, IMHO. One of the Festool 125mm sanders can also take a 150mm pad and abrasives if you want the best of both worlds. I don't believe that's available with the other premium brands, but don't quote me on that.

[John Kananis]

I have (for years) 2 dewalt and 2 rigid at different stations. I don't care for sanding so I don't sand any more aggressive than with a ros (by hand). Of the 4, one of the 2 (identical) rigid was my favorite. I decided to replace it wish the festool 125 req and don't regret my purchase at all. If I used more aggressive sanding methods, I'd probably look at their rotex models.

[Tony Shea]

I used to own the Bosch sander as well as a Makita. I replaced both of them with a Festool 125 REQ and a Mirka Deros 5". I was worried that there wasn't going to be much difference and I would regret the extra cost. I was actually blown away by the performance difference and don't regret the upgrade at all. But I also picked up a Festool Dust Extractor at the same time I bought the Festool REQ. One of the best parts of these two higher end sanders is how well the integrate into a dust extractor and isn't awkward to use with a hose hanging off the tool. Using a dust extractor with the cheaper sanders is incredibly awkward to me therefore wouldn't always hook something up. The second difference is the vibration reduction. This is probably the most impressive difference that is hard to convey in words. I can sand for hours without having the dreaded numb hand when I'm done. Being able to sand with almost zero dust and very little vibration is worth the price of admission for me. But it depends on what you're after, as well as the extra expense of a dust extractor. The dust extractor might be my favorite purchase of all the tools in my shop in the last few years. I can now use a router out of the table without spending 30 minutes cleaning up chips after I'm done.

[Robyn Horton]

Just depends on what you are doing with the sander .. fine finishing or stock removal. The bigger the oribt the faster it is for stock removal and the smaller orbit is for Fine finishing.
Festool 125 EQ Plus 1/8" 3.0 mm orbit
Festool 125 REQ Plus 5/64" 2.0 mm orbit
Bosch ROS20VSC 3/32" 2.5 mm orbit
Mirka 550 X CV 5.0 mm orbit
3M Extract 88762 3/32" 2.4mm orbit

[Michael Zerance]

I have the Bosch ROS65VC and recommend it. You can put a 5" or 6" pad on it and it works equally well with either. The vibration control works well. The sander is stable for flat work but a little too heavy and cumbersome for edges. The orbit is 2.5mm so it excels at preparing a surface for finish but it is slower to flatten a surface or sand out defects. I've had it about 7 years, use it hard and often, and I just recently had to replace the brushes in it. Other than that, I've had no issues with it. The new version is the GEX34-6N I believe; the other Bosch you listed is not in the same class.

I recently purchased a MAXXT sander which is similar in design to the Mirka and 3M Extract but at a lower price. I would assume they sacrificed the build quality somewhere to get the price as low as it is but I would not call it a low quality tool. For the money, it was worth the risk, and I am impressed with it. It has both 5" and 6" pads. The orbit is 5mm so it is faster and more aggressive but the finish quality in the higher grits is still near perfect. Longevity is a concern but so far it's been great.

I also have a Surfprep 3x4 which is excellent for edges and profiles as well as sanding finishes on flat work. It works well for cabinet and drawer box interiors where you are sanding into inside corners.

[Dave Sabo]

1st - Just buy the Festool 125 REQ Plus for $250 and sell the box . I'll wager you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner. If you don't think so - you can return it no questions asked for a refund within 30days.

2. Lotsa fellas here are making things confusing by not listing model #'s CORRECTLY ! The proper model is ets EC 125/3 eq-plus. The xtra $200 bucks gets you a brushless motor, a bit more stroke, different/better ergonomics, and a bigger tool case.

3. As previously mentioned the Bosch ROS20 is not in the same league as the other sanders. It's good, but it's still a JV player. A few of their other sanders do represent great values being very close performers to the big boys at nearly half the cost. The 20 isn't quite there though.

4. Jim's rec is solid w/regard to paper. I use (mostly) the diablo mesh from Homer's BoRG and get it when its on sale in the multi grit pack of 50. Excellent value at that price. Festool's paper is really first class and long lasting, but not available too many places locally.

5. Unless you're constantly doing large panels - the 5" (125mm) sanders will be more versatile. Think tabletops, ref. side panels, ect...

6. touched on already - a proper hose makes a world of difference as does tool triggering vac flow. these will hot rod your vac for not a huge spend if it's not so equipped.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0849L6LLH/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=350884f85b07739c9663e2d50bd466cc&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1713122268&sr=1-2-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1_title&pd_rd_w=Dz6Nq&content-id=amzn1.sym.417820b0-80f2-4084-adb3-fb612550f30b%3Aamzn1.sym.417820b0-80f2-4084-adb3-fb612550f30b&pf_rd_p=417820b0-80f2-4084-adb3-fb612550f30b&pf_rd_r=XHWB5CP7WMQR9R1WJM4D&pd_rd_wg=ht22R&pd_rd_r=738ea777-d1ff-44e4-a731-f2d9dd849f36&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFDB9MSB/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0BFDB9MSB&pd_rd_w=XJqRE&content-id=amzn1.sym.386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_p=386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_r=GKTFMPWR7Y0C8NQ34WJG&pd_rd_wg=oBp14&pd_rd_r=0ed16e98-4b8a-4c62-a245-cb8baeeec084&s=hi&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM


7. Again ............just buy the second sander from your list and start making dust.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Michael mentioned the integration with the dust extractor. The cost of the 2 is quite shocking for doing the 2 things most of all of us dislike - sanding and vacuuming. However, the Festool ETS EC 150/5 paired with a Festool Midi (built-in blue tooth which is wonderful with that little push button adder - not required for the corded sander but still worth mentioning) is something that I'd pay for again without a doubt!
As Jim mentioned, the mesh sandpaper (with backer) makes the dust extraction a "breeze".
I know you weren't asking about a the dust extraction but that combo really is quite surprisingly a game changer.

[Michael Burnside]

If 10 people reply, you will get 15 suggestions. Good luck. I stopped suggesting tools, it's a huge waste of time. All of those you are looking at will sand wood.

I kind of agree, but here goes. My choice Festool ETS EC 150/5 and Festool paper.

[George Yetka]

Definitely look at 6" there is a decent time savings with the 30% more surface area and paper is only about 10% more in cost.

If you have lots of 5" on hand I know at least the Mirka allows switching between pads. The mirka kit I bought came with 5&6, a hose, and 200 abranet discs for $550. Though I would of had to get a local plug for it. I decided to wire Festool Plug-it into it because I was on that system.

You may also want to look into a dust extractor if your not on one already. Combine that with mesh and paper lasts a long time.

[David Kenagy]

Thanks for all the comments. I'm leaning toward the ETS EC 1XX/3 EQ-Plus (125 or 150). I understand the speed advantage of the larger disc, and the (relatively) small cost difference. So my real concern is whether the larger disc (or my handling) will worsen my concern about any electrical sanding tool: Flat things must not become round things. On a 1.5" cabinet door frame or a 2.5" rail/stile joint, will my handling of a 6" disc be as good as with a 5" one? I asked that of Festool's Customer Service folks (they suggested the 125).

The weights for the two are similar (1.5 and 1.6 kg) but are the housing size or center-of-gravity a factor?.
About 3 EQ vs. 5 EQ (size of swirl) the most aggressive thing I do is to level the rail-stile joint (sometimes off by 1/16"). Once that's done, I sand to 150 or 180, but always switch to card scraper before stain or sealer. Am I fair in thinking that the 5 EQ (or Rotex) is more aggressive than my need?

[Jim Becker]

David, if you do a ton of narrow component sanding, then yes, the smaller 125mm/5" format is going to be easier to keep things flat. But in general, the current generation 150/5 (or similar from Mirka, etc) is, in my opinion (cheap for sure), one of the best overall sanders one can own. Until I recently bought an RO90 for some specialized reasons, I've been using the 150mm/6" format since the mid 2000s and have never had any real issue during those times when I was sanding narrower things. I just am careful. My original sander is the 150/3...the taller design from "back in the day". I picked up a 150/5 in the current, lower format and I love it. There isn't enough difference between the 3mm orbit and the 5mm orbit to matter to me, at least for the work I do.

I do not suggest you buy a Rotex to use as a general sander. These are two-handed tools, IMHO, even in the current slightly more balanced format, so doing a lot of general sanding is going to be more tedious with them. Buy a Rotex for the aggressive, rotary action if you need that and for that. Buy a ROS for general sanding. And this comment is not brand specific, in a sense, because other brand options for dual mode can be equally discomforting because it takes more "stuff" and space to do the dual function and that raises the weight as well as the handling issues. That's my opinion, of course, and again, it may not represent yours or other folks'.

[Michael Burnside]

I'm weird, I actually enjoy the sanding process and it is not uncommon for me to use 2 or 3 different sanders on a given project. I own these Festool sanders: REQ 125 (edge detail only), ETS EC 150/3 (finish sander), ETS EC 150/5, Rotex RO 150 and Rotex RO 90. I only use Festool paper. I tried the other stuff...I think it's crap by comparison, but that's just my opinion. Like I said, I'm serious about sanding and I'm VERY picky.

By far the first one I would purchase that will do most things for most people is the ETS EC 150/5. It's a little less forgivng on soft woods if you rush through the grits, but otherwise if you take your time, it's a wonderful sander, coupled with a Festool dust extractor. Also get the hard pad and use it most of the time...you'll thank me later. The Rotex RO 150 is a phenomenal sander and can take rough panels and clean them up amazingly fast. That would be my second purchase, but not my first. It is a 2 handed sander IMHO. The /3 or REQ 125 are great but not necessary, nor is the RO 90, but all have a purpose in my sanding regimen from time to time. I recognize you can get away with one or two sanders, so that's why I listed the order of priority.

A 125 would not be on my list of first sanders.

[Aaron Inami]

The $249 ETS sander is an excellent finish sander (for final sanding berfore applying finish). However, it takes forever for heavier stuff like removing material and sanding glue joints. It's just not aggressive enough for this type of stuff.

The more expensive $475 ETS-EC sanders are excellent as well, but you need to be aware that they require a vacuum attachment for dust extraction (you cannot use these without a vacuum like the ETS sander above). The 150/5 is excellent for material removal and sanding glue joints, etc, but the 5mm orbit is too large for finishing. You can use an extra-hard sanding pad on the 150/5 that makes it act more like a flattener/planer. The ETS 125 finishing sander only has a soft pad which sands over and into dips/mounds.

If you are going to only get one sander, I would normally advise the 125/3 or 150/3. The 3mm is basically a compromise between finishing / removal.

[Dave Sabo]

If you’re going to get the EC sander - get the 125/3 version. You can purchase a 150mm pad from festool or another source and get two sanders.

It is also possible to run the EC sanders without a vacuum, you just have to tweak the settings on the sander. It’s strongly discouraged if I recall correctly though.

[STUART Robertson]

Both the festool ETS EC and mirka have a lower profile which should help with any tendency to roll,and are nicer to use than the taller types.The festool at least has pads of different hardness,not sure about mirka,but they probably do too.Note the different type of switching, I think the Deros has the paddle type which alway needs to be held to engage,this could become tiring and awkward at times.
If you're doing a lot of sanding go for comfort AND performance.
If you're doing a lot of sanding get an extractor to go with the sander,use on the lowest setting,higher suction tends to pull the pad onto the material and add sanding marks.The festool ones have a low centre of gravity which helps with stability.
The Rotex are way overkill for the work you've described and on their fine setting they are not really a finish sander.
If you're only sanding infrequently it maybe doesn't matter too much
about the quality of sander and wear a mask.
Lots of good suggestions in this thread.

[STUART Robertson]

By the way,the festool ETS EC is between $1280 and $1480 here...
Not U.S.

[George Yetka]

I started with the ets ec 125 and switched my main sander to the Mirka. The paddle requires very little effort to hold. It has a power button then all goes through the paddle. Once its on you cant lay it upside down on the bench. While using it there is not really any difference in the feel between the ets ec's and the deros.

Hard pad is definitely a good recommendation for any of the sanders, especially for cabinets.

As far as comfort in sanding you wont do better than an EC , deros, or possibly the 3m(havent tried this one)

[Jimmy Harris]

Thanks for all the comments. I'm leaning toward the ETS EC 1XX/3 EQ-Plus (125 or 150). I understand the speed advantage of the larger disc, and the (relatively) small cost difference. So my real concern is whether the larger disc (or my handling) will worsen my concern about any electrical sanding tool: Flat things must not become round things. On a 1.5" cabinet door frame or a 2.5" rail/stile joint, will my handling of a 6" disc be as good as with a 5" one? I asked that of Festool's Customer Service folks (they suggested the 125).

The weights for the two are similar (1.5 and 1.6 kg) but are the housing size or center-of-gravity a factor?.
About 3 EQ vs. 5 EQ (size of swirl) the most aggressive thing I do is to level the rail-stile joint (sometimes off by 1/16"). Once that's done, I sand to 150 or 180, but always switch to card scraper before stain or sealer. Am I fair in thinking that the 5 EQ (or Rotex) is more aggressive than my need?

Honestly, if flatness where my main concern, I'd rather use a hand plane. Probably a jointer plane if you can. They do a better job at flattening and keeping things flat than handheld sanders. Then, if you needed to, you could sand the last bit off by hand or with whatever sander of your choice, since after the plane you wouldn't need but the finest grit, if you even needed to sand at all. So flatness wouldn't be an issue.

[STUART Robertson]

There's no switch lock with the Deros is there?

[George Yetka]

There's no switch lock with the Deros is there?

Yes there is a power button.Once you push the power button it can remain on indefinitely. the paddle will be your power. but you can always turn it back off.
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[Ray Selinger]

When I use my RO, I wear anti-vibration gloves. No sense in getting white finger., that's what loggers call it from the chainsaws.