Centauro 600

[STUART Robertson]

Looking for suggestions...from others with experience with Centauro 600 or similar...
1.Having considerable issues with drift.
Work pulling away from fence and or wandering in the cut.This has been very frustrating.
Have replaced tyres and main bearings.
2.Usually using 3/4 or 1" blades.
Is a blade tension guage (e.g Starrett)the best way to go rather than the built in guage.
3.Replacement guides,what do you suggest in terms of euro style guides with thrust.Make and source.
4.Using the manufacturer's guide to hang the teeth just off the tyre doesn't seem to work.Putting them nearer the centre seems more successful.
5.Do you find CT or Stellite type blades a better choice.

[Lee Schierer]

One thing: Align your table and fence to the blade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNdrkmx6ehI).

[Zachary Hoyt]

I would try using a brand new blade, as it sounds like yours may be dull enough to wander.

[Tom M King]

Sounds like the blade to me. I run mine with the teeth of the 1" blade off the edge like the directions say, and it cuts dead true until a blade starts to get tired. I even resawed a piece over normal width without the table and top guides on it once and it didn't know the difference. Start screwing with the alignment before trying a fresh blade and there will be no end to chasing your tail.

edited to add: I only run 1" blades on mine. I never touch the guides after first setup some years ago. For clean wood I run a Lenox 1" Woodmaster CT 1.3 tpi. I do have a non carbide tipped blade I use for something I don't want to risk the good blade in but the saw doesn't know the difference. I've had that blade for so long that I forget what brand it is.

[Andrew Hughes]

The Laguna Resaw King used to be stellite laguna tools never admitted it but the guy the used sharpen blades for me said it was. I liked stellite thought it cut faster then carbide. It also left a superior surface.
Carbide last longer that alone makes it the winner. It would be nice to have both blades hanging in the bullpen.
Good Luck

[andrew whicker]

If it isn't the blade and you still have issues feel free to look at my posts regarding my own issues. I spent many an hour on my centauro.

I don't think you need a tension gage.

[Tom Trees]

There's quite a few Centauro 600 machines out there.
Discounting the SP line, which if concerning the bare bones of things, are much the same as most other Italian saws, and newer CO saws.

I can give you a rundown, concerning the most important aspects of things,
i.e a smooth running saw with longevity in mind.

Here's seemingly the first iteration of welded sheet steel 600mm wheeled saw, the most notable thing is the lack of a hub for adjustment of the lower wheel.

518040
https://i.postimg.cc/Gm5nKH9Q/Centauro-CO-first-steel.jpg

Next we have the fully adjustable CO machines which ran from sometime in the 1980's to 1995/6,
518041
https://i.postimg.cc/xTs8Bw51/1993CO.jpg

And thereafter the next line of CO saws, which are only fully adjustable with determined intervention!.
Pretty much like any other Italian saw, with great parts and that, but aren't designed with longevity in mind.
518045
https://i.postimg.cc/1zLh2Cgd/CENTAURO-CO-1996.jpg

Not much different to what we see from Centauro today
518046
https://i.postimg.cc/d3sWxr9X/Minimax-600.jpg

If you've got the fully adjustable model, then it'd be a good idea to align everything, since it's easier to do than the other machines,
whilst bearing in mind the age of the saw,
That is...if you don't wish to get any nasty surprises down the road, namely concerning damage to the wheel bores,
but also concerning the camber apex of the tires,
as misaligned wheels will nibble off that apex, and flat tires will compress the set of regular blades,
especially so if not tracking the blades off the wheels,
though I can mention misaligned wheels and no camber, will also compress set, if tracking regular blades as per Centauro's/any other Italian manufacturers suggestion too,
just not quite as quickly.

Another very notable thing regarding aligned wheels and correct/undamaged tire profile, as mentioned in the SP manual, but none other!
being the lesser importance of thrust guides, seeing as a given blade will have much less tendency to make contact with the guides,
so you might be happy enough without needing to cough up for new thrust rollers.

As you might have guessed, all the above isn't something the manufacturers would want you to know.

Though I'm just a bandsaw troll of course, and you shouldn't question these things, and instead buy blades which don't have a set to be compressed,
new guides, preferably ceramic ones which they don't offer, and when the saw has "paid for itself" then you can buy a new machine,

Just don't question why you see the same machines, of a certain age, popping up on fleabay from time to time, for much less than you'd pay for a new one.
518048
https://i.postimg.cc/2SYS1526/Screenshot-2023-12-21-SCM-Mini-Max-S600-P-Bandsaw-3-Phrase-e-Bay.png

As I said, not knocking Centauro whatsoever, they're what I would buy if I needed another bandsaw,
I'd just factor in a tin o'paint, no bothers.
All needed is an alignment tool, and a steel plate, same deal as with the rest of the Italian saws.
Not much point in getting an equivalently priced brand new knockoff when the guarantees are worthless,
seeing as you can't really measure vibration or anything else for that matter, well without a wheel alignment tool that is.

Make yer bandsaw last forever! :)
All the best

Tom

[STUART Robertson]

All very helpful suggestions thankyou.
I'm not a novice which is adding to my irritation with this saw.
And have had other saws but never these issues,although smaller saws.
I have tried with new blades,aligning the fence,tracking on and off the tyre...
Tom,it's the 1996 version as in your photo...
now how to check that alignment 🤔?
Anyone have comments regarding current SCM 640 and 540 models?

[Tom Trees]

There's two ways of checking east/west wheel alignment, i.e.. in order to have the wheels not pointing off to either side of the machine,
and both ways about it, involve laying down the tape.
I done it the hard way, using a scribing beam, requiring the faces/edges/lips of the wheel to be accurate enough to register said beam against.
518050
https://i.postimg.cc/rsjzc0t7/Scribing-beam.jpg

518051
https://i.postimg.cc/fLpQdwQk/Checking-wheel-face.jpg

518052
https://i.postimg.cc/4xLLyWgx/Draw-filing-wheel-face.jpg

Doing it this way, If you don't check those wheels are within tolerance, (i.e to be able to draw a straight line)...regardless of where on the wheel the scribing beam is placed,
then you could be off by a long shot, i.e 4mm, if there's a 0.5mm discrepancy on the upper wheel. (unnoticeable by eye).

You might be better off...since it's a Centauro with grooved wheels to align tires, to make up a tool which gets placed where the wheel retaining bolt & washer goes,
to shoot a pen laser onto the tape instead, under blade tension that is...
A sort of shaft extension if you will, in which a bored block of timber/w/laser gets installed.
This might give an idea, though it'd be with the wheel involved.
518053
https://i.postimg.cc/B6cwS4Zd/SAM-7704.jpg

518054
https://i.postimg.cc/NFZXZrqY/Scribing-datum.jpg

Here's a clearer picture of the idea, though it wasn't accurate due to the wheels not being in tolerance.
518055
https://i.postimg.cc/FHzR0H2V/Wheel-alignment-kinda.jpg


And that's the part where you find out the motor won't likely align with the upper wheel datum, (non-adjustable concerning lateral rotation)
unless you're extremely lucky, go buy a lottery ticket if it turns out to be in line w/upper wheel.
Not fancying that, then you'd better have a loose drive belt(s)!
518056
https://i.postimg.cc/jSMMkZ3r/SAM-6902-copy.jpg

So with the adjustable motor plate made, shimmed to be in alignment with the upper wheel datum,
then no compromises will be made regarding accurate wheel alignment, and you won't be needing to cough up for expensive parts down the road.
518057
https://i.postimg.cc/90cT2jzg/Motor-alignment-1.png

That I think is the max picture limit, should be self explanatory, and the details are on many a Centauro thread here, and on other places elsewhere also,
along with the previous misery of damaged motor bearings before all this, assuming the chassis would be a good starting point,
mentioning frying a cheapo VFD with a saw running badly,
repairing the wheel bore with a sleeve, and mythbusting the flat tire misconception that many have on the Italian machines etc.
Guilty as charged your honour! :o

I can mention there's SCM machines for cheap on the bay aswell, if you've gotten the impression that I'm a Centauro knocker, not so.
Just the same as from any other manufacturer of machine made today, though worth noting, if ya think that's bad...
Some of the Far Eastern machines aren't even worth working on, as they're not made to run for 20 somethin years, which would be too much and pointless to explain why.
(all stuff to do with either shoddy or non-adjustable bottom wheels, and associated things to mask those issues)

All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Whew...thankyou.
I'm located deep in the south pacific,a long way from anywhere.
Good used machines are not easy to obtain and new ones very costly,very high freight costs.
Going back a step to symptoms and causes...
I've frequently read that having wheels coplanar is not a necessity or is this with regard to N/S orientation and the fact that they are immediately out the minute you track the blade.
If the wheels are not aligned E to W,how will this express itself via the blade?
Will it mean the blade is essentially twisting as it leaves the top wheel and as it engages the bottom wheel?Meaning the blade is lying in two different planes respectively as it travels.I would expect this to be more significant with wider blades.
It seems to cut perfectly square to the table as set.
The blade stays in position in that it doesn't wander off piste.
I'm trying to get my head around defining a relevant datum/reference plane to define any alignment discrepancy.

[STUART Robertson]

I'm new to using this forum and not sure how to find those posts.
Thanks

[STUART Robertson]

If I put a straight edge across each wheel,East to west and measure the difference, wouldn't that tell me how far out of alignment they were.
This assumes the wheels themselves are accurately machined and not twisted...and they are cast.
It would be the central axis of each wheel you'd have to compare?

[Tom Trees]

I've frequently read that having wheels coplanar is not a necessity or is this with regard to N/S orientation and the fact that they are immediately out the minute you track the blade.
The co-planar adjustment under tension is smoother regarding the drive belt(s), though not to be confused with blade tracking thereafter.
518065
https://i.postimg.cc/tJBQDvkf/SAM-7868.jpg



If the wheels are not aligned E to W,how will this express itself via the blade?

Provided you've checked your blade, and it's perfectly welded, and the thrust guides are backed off,
then watching whether it stays put on top of the wheel whilst hand turning the upper wheel will show this up,
as seen in most utoobs, where you can see the blade walking about.
518066
https://i.postimg.cc/MHKgcbwY/Inspect-blade-here-whilst-turning-blade-by-hand.png



If I put a straight edge across each wheel,East to west and measure the difference, wouldn't that tell me how far out of alignment they were.
This assumes the wheels themselves are accurately machined and not twisted...and they are cast.
It would be the central axis of each wheel you'd have to compare?
There's normally nothing accurate on most wheels to be able trust, especially the hubs,
which is why I was mentioning to take a reading from the wheel shafts instead,
as you've no need to make the edges of the wheels accurate on a Centauro.

There is a max picture count of 8 posts IIRC, so I didn't bother posting the rest, as it's mentioned elsewhere in better detail,
but going back to "simply" using a beam and rule, I chased my tail for a long time, as I was under the impression the faces/edges/lips/call'em what you wish,
were accurate, due to the machine marks,
when infact this was throwing things off, and clamping a beam to the upper wheel....
which is non adjustable, concerning lateral rotation of the wheel shaft...therefore the datum regarding east/west alignment of the lower wheel....
didn't work either, for two main reasons.

One being adjustments of the lower wheel shaft jacking screws (the hub at the back) requiring the blade to be tracked to it's new location. with every adjustment.
The second, and by far most importantly... the accuracy of the wheels necessary to do such.
i.e Two pictures of failed attempts below... and I've yet more failed attempts freehanding things also, (which is a good way to throw yer back out!)
518071
https://i.postimg.cc/SNBHrPkJ/Failed-alignment-attempt-clamping-beam.jpg
518072
https://i.postimg.cc/vBzc7Kjn/Failed-alignment-with-clamped-beam-and-rule.jpg

That can only be spotted with a pen on the end of the beam, which scribes a line on the tape stuck to the chassis base...
illustrating very clearly, what a unnoticeable by eye, 0.5mm discrepancy will show up.
That doesn't mean twisted wheels, nor runout involved (which would be concerning the wheel bore)
Its simply an intentional discrepancy left there, to throw folks off,

So it's not a case of simply at all, as one has to check every portion of the wheel, in which the beam rests against,
to see if the pen lands on the same spot, or indeed short line,
as that tiny discrepancy will cause the pen to draw a differing mark, which would make it seem like one turned the tracking screw.

518067
https://i.postimg.cc/kGNS6Knf/Without-trued-wheel-faces.jpg

That's around 4mm of variance, so certainly not trustworthy.
You could check this without even removing the table, and just stick some tape onto a clamped board, and see what maximum error you'd get with a pen stuck
to some sort'a beam, which I suppose would be around half(ish) of what you'd see on the chassis base.
You might be less miffed about making a tool for the job instead.

I've pretty much posted all this on every bandsaw thread since last year with quite a bit more detail.
Shouldn't be too difficult to find.

All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Getting a bit confused now...but thankyou again.
The current blade in use has a bad weld so it has a bit of a hump along its spine.Accounting for that the blade appears to stay perfectly in place on the wheels under rotation.
I also have again hung the teeth off the tyre as Centauro suggest.
So again I will ask how will any east/west alignment issues of the flywheels manifest when cutting.

So we're trying to measure if the motor shaft and top wheel shaft are lying in the same planes in both x and y axes but the x axis specifically, and how to do this in straightforward way as only one of them is adjustable left to right.
I did put a dial guage on both wheels and each seemed to have a variance of about 5/100 mm,given the vagaries of a cast iron surface.
But no comparison to each other.
It would seem that to be relevant any variation needs to be measured at the horizontal mid line.
Given the relatively small diameters of the shafts this feels difficult to achieve in a meaningful way in a woodshop.
If I set the saw level and then shot a vertical laser line I'd possibly pick up some variation?

Using the 25mm blade and cranking up the tension a bit more has helped with the blade wandering.Currently wanting to rip 300mm.
The most significant issue now is the work piece drifting off the fence.
I've tried the free hand cut allowing the blade to take its course and then setting the fence to that but no joy there...?
Thankyou to all who bother to read this.

[Kevin Jenness]

To check wheel alignment using a laser, shim the saw base level so that the top and bottom edge of the lower wheel at 6:00 and 12:00 are the same distance from the laser plumb line. Then you can check the same points on the upper wheel for offset and compare the 9:00 and 3:00 points on both wheels to see if their planes are parallel. Rotate the wheels to get measurements that average out any runout/casting irregularities. I doubt this is causing your issues but is worth checking.

If upping the tension has eliminated or sufficiently diminished the blade wandering then all you need to do is adjust the table and/or fence to the cut line of a sharp blade. You can check the actual blade tension and compare it to the gauge on the saw with a shop-made gauge. https://sites.google.com/view/jteneyck-woodworker/current-projects/bandsaw-blade-tension-meter?authuser=1

[Tom Trees]

Getting a bit confused now...but thankyou again.
The current blade in use has a bad weld so it has a bit of a hump along its spine.Accounting for that the blade appears to stay perfectly in place on the wheels under rotation.
I also have again hung the teeth off the tyre as Centauro suggest.
So again I will ask how will any east/west alignment issues of the flywheels manifest when cutting.
I'd be very surprised if the blade stayed put at the very top where I've pointed, without the wheels being in alignment.
If you've got genuine Centauro tires for your CO 600, the camber will dictate where the blade goes, (so the blade will have to shift if wheels are misaligned)
and since you're no stranger to bandsaws and threads of such, you'll likely have came across the never ending threads regarding drift,
and tracking of such blades to point the blade in a favourable direction.

Also worth mentioning tracking blades on the crown, if using a narrow blade, (with misaligned wheels) makes a great recipe for nibbling off the camber apex,
resulting in a flat profile on the tires,
like you'll likely have seen on any Italian bandsaw troubleshooting publication, hence why you'd have read it in the first place.
The previous Far Eastern saw I had, one could hear the nibbles and see the rubber dust, on that terribly running saw which the company expert, nor the retailer could sort.
Keith Rucker's Diresta bandsaw series demonstrates a very clear example of a blade walking about on those huge wheels,
so if you've happened to test those new blades with the old tires, it might give explanation of why you've got drift issues, as the set could likely be damaged as mentioned above.



So we're trying to measure if the motor shaft and top wheel shaft are lying in the same planes in both x and y axes but the x axis specifically, and how to do this in straightforward way as only one of them is adjustable left to right.
I did put a dial guage on both wheels and each seemed to have a variance of about 5/100 mm,given the vagaries of a cast iron surface.
But no comparison to each other.
It would seem that to be relevant any variation needs to be measured at the horizontal mid line.
Given the relatively small diameters of the shafts this feels difficult to achieve in a meaningful way in a woodshop.
If I set the saw level and then shot a vertical laser line I'd possibly pick up some variation?

Using the 25mm blade and cranking up the tension a bit more has helped with the blade wandering.Currently wanting to rip 300mm.
The most significant issue now is the work piece drifting off the fence.
I've tried the free hand cut allowing the blade to take its course and then setting the fence to that but no joy there...?
Thankyou to all who bother to read this.

My response concerning taking any measurements, would be related to the bottom wheel and motor, not the upper wheel
since it's a datum. (be it done with wheels made accurate, or the laser mounted on the shaft)
since you didn't mention which Centauro 600 saw it was, I mentioned all three of differing builds,
then responded when asked how to align wheels, which might not be the most pleasing answer for those without the specific foolproof Centauro.

Saying that, the datum doesn't change regardless IMO, as I could have skewed the carriage to suit the motor if I wished,
when repairing damage of the fixing points, a nitty gritty job to fill, drill and tap for those bolts either side...
518109
https://i.postimg.cc/PrTTxBLr/SAM-4491.jpg
but that wouldn't be pleasing whatsoever, as the guidepost and table would need be skewed to suit...
so the wheels needs to be accurate to get some reference from, if not making a tool mentioned.

Mentioning axis would likely be misleading, as there's adjustments on the upper wheel on most Italian saws to account for differing tire thickness,
to suit the parallel guidepost, which would be an axis adjustment.
Plane as you mentioned, lateral rotation or tilt is a separate thing, and that's why I'm mentioning east/west, as it concerns the jacking screw adjustments which tilt the wheel shaft at the back of the lower wheel.
What might indeed be confusing matters was me mentioning anything else but sureworthy methods, and that's getting an accurate reference/datum line from the upper wheel,
as the scribing beam proved the wheels aren't to be trusted without checking/making accurate to use this method,
hence the laser mounted onto the shaft is quite likely a more sensible approach.

(I could mention I didn't find any difference getting this datum line without a blade, (for interests sake) pressing well down on the lower portion of the wheel,
so it probably isn't necessary to make up a shaft extension,
but I've read from Eric's posts that the carriage might not be quite as snug as on my ACM, so couldn't advise for surety)

Not having a groove in the wheels on my Italian machine, making the edges/lips/rims accurate, simplifies matters for me down the road should a blade snap and rip off a tire,
then I can simply line up a spare with the edge of the wheel.
Centauro or some Meber owners obviously wouldn't need to do this, if they bought a genuine replacement tire.
518110
https://i.postimg.cc/MG7XN1N9/Scribing-datum-2.jpg

I could post some other miserable pictures of motor disassembly for fair warning if intending to compromise, if not having a loose drive belt, or belts to test,
but that would likely confuse matters, and besides it's a pure lottery whether the chassis behind the lower wheel might be somewhat in line with the upper wheel.
This might be a more helpful picture instead
518111
https://i.postimg.cc/63xQtcFk/The-right-shim.jpg
All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

It's the CO 600 1996 with the adjustment hub,as in one of your photos Tom.I got in some new tyres with the moulded index for the grooved wheels from Scott and Sargeant a while back.They are crowned and show no evidence of chewing out.
In terms of any wandering,under better light and with my glasses on there might be a mm of movement.
This seems to suggest the wheels may be reasonably aligned?
There's negligible vibration in the saw.

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou Kevin.

[Tom Trees]

I couldn't say what would be tolerable, having had the impression the Italian saws all had flat profiles whilst buying new blades,
as I've only crowned my tires recently, i.e last year, as per the Centauro CO spare profile, with 1mm forward offset camber apex,
Just to mention if you've tracked a blade without consideration of that, then I'd guess its highly likely the set has been compressed.

I also couldn't say what would be tolerable regarding not aligning the motor,
but to mention I've damaged my motor bearings before, whilst here's a thread with a Centauro having lower wheel bore issues
https://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/threads/bandsaw.7131/

Whether that be from misalignment of wheels, or aligned wheels with misaligned motor, or a compromise regarding both, I've no clue.
Having sleeved my upper wheel I have no wish to find out what indeed might be tolerable.
If you look at the newer Centauro in the photo I've posted, or look at them closer on the truck in the promo video,
you might spot the motors can accommodate a longer belt compared.

All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks again Tom. I guess that's possible but considering different width blades are tracked in slighty different positions I wouldn't expect the compression to be abnormal?
I always slacken the tension after use as well.
Because of the wandering and drift issues I've avoided using the machine,so the tyres have really had little use.
The bottom guides are the phenolic resin type blocks,no thrust bearing.
If I was to replace this with a thrust type setup any suggestions for that?
It's a bandsaw wilderness out here...

[Brian Holcombe]

On my saw, I adjusted the wheels to be co-planar as best as possible. I also adjusted the table to square to the machine (and to the blade), then adjusted the fence to the cutting path. My machine has a feeder, so I adjust it so that it splits the kerf evenly with an equal amount of kerf on either side of the band as it cuts.

If the blade pulls away or drives toward the fence as you're cutting, then the kerf is one of the first areas I look at.

I also look to see that the blade isn't being pushed into the thrust bearing or riding the guide bearings when you are cutting.

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou Brian.
Another query to Centauro users....
The tyres;I was sold replacement tyres from a reputable company in the U.K. (about 26,000 miles away)
I will check,but pretty sure they are crowned.
Something Tom said and have also read elsewhere is that the tyres should be flat on these saws.

[Tom M King]

The replacement OEM tires I put on mine are flat. They're the ones with a little tongue on the inside that fits in a groove on the wheels. I've never had any reason to run anything else on it. I only use 1" blades on that saw with the teeth off the front edge like the instructions for that saw call for. I use smaller blades on other bandsaws. It works great. I know I'm at least the third owner.

Here's a picture of my saw. I have no idea what year it is. I don't care a bit.

[Tom Trees]

The ones who make the saws will give different answers, to the ones who market them. ;)
If you wanted a better answer, then you'd have to be more specific, and mention anti clastic curvature,
i.e what the profile becomes when installed on the wheels, and not what it looks like, but how it acts.
Then you might get somewhere....
It's a big part of the puzzle which sells more bandsaws, or for a friendlier answer...to throw off the competition.
Take yer pick!

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou both Toms...
So the tyres I have are genuine Centauro ones with the index.In situ they are crowned.
Maybe Centauro have both flat and crowned tyres for their indexed wheels?
I'm really starting to wonder how much this really matters as long as the blade isn't shredding the tyre and is tracking acurately?
I think the tracking issues I'm having are due to a 25mm blade too far forward on a crowned tyre so it's always going to push the work off the fence regardless.

I've just watched a video of Ethan cutting accurate veneers with an untensioned blade just about hanging off the back of the wheel and the guides dis engaged...

The year of manufacture can help identify vagaries and specific components...

[Tom Trees]

Now you have it, the tires are both crowned and flat...
It just depends on your point of view, and whether you use a carbide tipped blade or regular...
or if you wish to attain the most beam tension from whichever blade that is. :D
518148
https://i.postimg.cc/FHLndcsV/SAM-7994.jpg

518149
https://i.postimg.cc/W3X9LwXT/SAM-8037.jpg

518150
https://i.postimg.cc/WtRgQDLs/SAM-8047.jpg

[STUART Robertson]

Say some more about CT blades...
apart from cost...

[Tom M King]

I resawed 10,000 lineal feet of Cypress not over 5” wide with the Woodmaster making shingles and the blade still cuts like it did to start with. Now granted, that was heart Cyress which is not very hard, and not over 5” wide, but still it was 10,000 lineal feet.

The $250 for the blade I considered cheap for as good and fast as it cuts. I’ll get it resharpened when it needs it.

[Tom Trees]

Say some more about CT blades...
apart from cost...

How about a question instead?...
Who can match the results John Teneyck is getting, as I've not seen the proof myself.
i.e for instance, who reckons Mário Martins results are just mediocre.
Take your picks of some species, he's got quite a bit of pleasant footage, (though the pushstick, or lack thereof on some videos leaves a little to be desired)


https://www.youtube.com/@mari0david/videos

[STUART Robertson]

Say something about tyres in relation to CT blades,tracking and blade position,tooth count(2tpi?)
Anyone use a feed with these non resaw saws?
I use quite a bit of cypress (Monterey) it is soft.
Also quite a bit of larch(Siberian)
seems rather abrasive.
I value others experience.
Cheers

[Brian Holcombe]

Ask a question about CT Blades :D

Personally I use the 1.3TPI and I have similar experiences to Tom. I recently ordered a pair of blades from CT Saw in CT and they laughed at the order history since the last order was placed 4 years ago. I thought the blade had gotten dull but it was in need of slight adjustment, and it's still cutting. So I have two blades hanging on the wall and have one that's been on the machine for 4 years of daily use.

The teeth hang off the front edge of the wheel, the wheels are flat. There needs to be a fair amount of tension on the blade, more than the standard blades.

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks Brian 👍

[STUART Robertson]

Interested in others preferred CT blades and experiences.
What was the nature of that adjustment Brian?
I also need to make large dimension crosscuts at times.

[STUART Robertson]

Have recently found Van Huskey's
treatise on bandsaw blades from 2010.
Very good.

[Mark e Kessler]

Assuming everything else is adjusted correctly (I know that doesn't help...lol) I adjust my fence to compensate for drift if any.

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks Mark,
Used to do that but now if everything is adjusted correctly then shifting the fence is going to put the alignment with the mitre slot out.As I understand it now, it seems like micro adjustments with the tracking are the way to go.If the work is pulling away from the fence,then the blade needs to track a touch further back on the wheel,if binding on the fence,a touch forward...
So many opinions out there on tracking my head hurts🙄😬
And then as you say everything else has to be right too,can be a bit of a torturous process of elimination.

[STUART Robertson]

Mark,
Hope you're not sitting a chair all day...waiting to die...unless age has caught up and wearied you.You must have a wealth of information to share.

[STUART Robertson]

Andrew Whicker -
I have managed to use the search function and have now read your posts.My saw has the original guide setup and not the mess you started with.And the tension guage is still mostly functional. Definitely similar levels of frustration and where to next when I viewed your tube vids.
Haven't seen any later posts but wondering how you've got on and is the saw now functional for you.

[Tom Trees]

.


I did put a dial gauge on both wheels and each seemed to have a variance of about 5/100 mm,given the vagaries of a cast iron surface.
But no comparison to each other.
It would seem that to be relevant any variation needs to be measured at the horizontal mid line.
Given the relatively small diameters of the shafts this feels difficult to achieve in a meaningful way in a woodshop.
If I set the saw level and then shot a vertical laser line I'd possibly pick up some variation?



Thinking about this, you could do that with the laser also if you wished, as mentioned mounted onto the wheel shaft/against bearing race...
but you would need strong clear plastic in place of the table.
That way you could see the difference between the pen lines drawn thereafter, and adjust accordingly.
Seems an extra step/thing needed to me, and still ignoring the motor, so that might mean buying a longer belt(s)
and crossing ones fingers.

It seems that might be what General were doing in this video, though we only get to see a mere glimpse of things really.

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https://i.postimg.cc/LXkxLJ2z/Screenshot-2022-5-26-How-It-s-Made-Band-Saws.png
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https://i.postimg.cc/Hk74brtV/Screenshot-2022-5-26-How-It-s-Made-Band-Saws-1.png


Here's another link to some approaches, much the same without considering the motor,
but in this case, I doubt the wheels may have been as nicely machined as the General's made in Canada, that's just a guess though.
https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/tools/power-tools/1381828-bandsaw-woes

That's for one who would like to chase their tail, as I did for too long.
Having a pen on the end of a beam is far more telling, as it shows whether a wheel can be trusted or not, in the first place.
Though if adamant to instead try the straight edges with the plumb bob lines, or to try spotting something else what might not be right,
I can mention these four magnetic blocks (could be taped on) were the only way I found to get on with making working with plumb lines,s
having both top and bottom stabilizing them, the same as with the third for checking upper wheel protrusion, having both wheel retaining bolt heads to use instead.
I played around with that, whist also speculating & dressing tire edge crispness, (old vulcanized ones with some damage) so you can imagine quite a bit of fuss to line up the
edge of the rubber to have both edges in plane, and it amounted to nothing.

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https://i.postimg.cc/vBs3Kqkf/SAM-4964.jpg

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https://i.postimg.cc/vHk7j26T/SAM-4977.jpg

Tire edge dressing, (not under power)
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https://i.postimg.cc/XYNZswsq/Screenshot-from-SAM-6242-MP4-1.png

That's if you wanted to chase red herrings.

Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks Tom,
Think if I set the saw up so that both wheels are plumb then set a laser line at 90 degrees to that plane then measure back to the wheels at the horizontal mid line
the laser will hit the "ruler" whenever it intersects the laser.
Not the micro measure I would like
But should give some idea maybe.
Given that the blade has very little evident wander at the apex of the top wheel maybe they are not too far out.(?)
It seems to me the the major consequence of having wheels in east/west,left/right misalignment is erosion or excess wear on the crown of the tyre more than it causing blade wander or drift.(?)

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Tom,
Think if I set the saw up so that both wheels are plumb then set a laser line at 90 degrees to that plane then measure back to the wheels at the horizontal mid line
the laser will hit the "ruler" whenever it intersects the laser.
Not the micro measure I would like
But should give some idea maybe.
Given that the blade has very little evident wander at the apex of the top wheel maybe they are not too far out.(?)
It seems to me the the major consequence of having wheels in east/west,left/right misalignment is erosion or excess wear on the crown of the tyre more than it causing blade wander or drift.(?)

I wasn't convinced at all, of exactly the method described,(on the ozzy forum), and can thoroughly recommend taking footage of your setup,
as it showed up things which obviously weren't clear , like the bandsaw being level for instance.

Compression of the set is the most notable thing experienced, and excessive rubbing into the thrust guide/bogging down for no good reason,
mostly fore and aft blade walking.
I've got quite a few differing types of blades which I need to reset sometime, which I'm guessing is what your most notable issues are.

You could put it this way... if that method worked, they'd be making machines with adjustable motors.

Could also mention I didn't likely do my upper wheel bore any favours by assuming the faced lips/edges of the wheels were trustworthy to start with.
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https://i.postimg.cc/Vv7sFzJg/SAM-7943.jpg

All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Surely the adjustable motor,if I understand that correctly,is a minor thing as long as the pulleys are reasonably well aligned,unless they have moved on the keyway, and the belts under suitable tension.
I can see that if significantly misaligned with excessive tension that may cause biased loading on the band wheel bearings/shaft.
Haven't seen or read the Australian forum.

[STUART Robertson]

Interesting thread starting with Bill Space 09/2018

[Kevin Jenness]

It's easy to make a simple thing seem complicated. Bandsaws are about the most basic machines one can find. I've used many through the years from 14" and 20" Deltas and 16"-20" Aggazanis up to a 36" Crescent and never had significant problems that couldn't be cured with a new blade and tracking adjustments. You've put on new bearings and tires. I really doubt a minor misalignment between the upper and lower wheels is fatal but if you want to get the best measurement of that pull off the tires and measure from a vertical plane to the grooves, or use the edge of the tires- you can see easily enough whether the tire edge is spinning in a plane without significant runout. Put a dial indicator on the tire rims to see if they need dressing. If the tires are flat run the teeth off the front of the wheel, if crowned run the blade centered on the crown. Put a new blade on- if it doesn't run true try another one, making sure the welds are not causing a problem. There are only a few factors in play, run them down in order.

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks Kevin,
Agree,I like to keep it simple where possible.
And agree with starting with simple cures first.
I thought I'd done that and thought it didn't work...which sowed seeds of doubt for further issues.
One being was I sold the correct replacement tyres...now trying to confirm that or otherwise.
And does it matter,flat or crowned.Do I simply work with what I've got.
Manual says hang teeth off tyre,suggesting flat tyres...but mine are crowned...etc, then all differing opinions re blade placement on those tyres.
So yes,trying to identify the starting point and my own errors.
Thanks again.

[Tom Trees]

Surely the adjustable motor,if I understand that correctly,is a minor thing as long as the pulleys are reasonably well aligned,unless they have moved on the keyway, and the belts under suitable tension.
I can see that if significantly misaligned with excessive tension that may cause biased loading on the band wheel bearings/shaft.
Haven't seen or read the Australian forum.

My troubleshooting started off getting thrown in the deep end, so belt alignment isn't something to dismiss.
The moment I mixed a new belt of the same brand/&size (which might not have been spec length, but an old one which could stretch)
and trying some experimentation regarding assuming the lower part of the chassis would be a good starting place. :eek:
as I had been going through blades like they were takeaways up until then.

In the below case, the combination of both had disastrous outcome, having only had the machine on for a second,
it made mince meat out of my motor bearings, making that thin sheet metal flop about like it were a musical saw plate...
so if trying to wing it, bear that in mind and don't attempt the below silliness!!


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https://i.postimg.cc/T244KQJm/SAM-4149.jpg
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https://i.postimg.cc/FKH6f68y/SAM-4165.jpg

And if someone is getting the impression this might be reasonable, then REMEMBER....that ring thingy goes on BEFORE you install the bearing! :o
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https://i.postimg.cc/tT1mkxX7/SAM-4560.jpg

That should be fair warning I think.
All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

So prior to mixing up the belts instead of putting on a new pair started a disastrous chain of events?
I looked up the manual for the grizzly 636 and the setup is essentially the same as a centauro.
There's a good section on wheel alignment in there.

[Tom Trees]

My machine takes a single belt, so just a warning that changing to new, (of the same brand/size)...that it may not have as much stretch as the old.
Though I couldn't say if I used the old one, whether I could have gotten away with things on that occasion of clueless wheel adjustment.
Just posting for warning if one is under the impression it matters little.

All the best
Tom