Creating an aged maple finish

[John TenEyck]

This is a follow up to an earlier post about how to create an aged maple finish on a table I'm making of maple and mahogany. Based on the input I got in that post I tried several approaches.

- Waterlox OSF by itself does a pretty good job of giving maple an aged look. The think I didn't like about it is how thin it is and how shiny it is. I applied 4 coats and it would benefit from more. I know it's supposed to get less glossy as it fully cures, but I can't wait months until I ship it to the customer, and I don't want to rub out the entire table. So it's out.

- Arm-R-Seal over amber shellac is lighter than Waterlox and falls a little short of being "aged" maple. Of course, I could add some Transtint dye to the shellac to give it more of an aged look, and that may be an option, but if I'm going to use dye I'd rather just use it separately and spray a WB topcoat.

- Several dye options that give degrees of an aged maple look, both on yellow side and on the more neutral or reddish side of the spectrum. Of course, the finish you put on top has a major impact on the final color. I discounted Waterlox because of the reasons cited above. I also eliminated ARS, for now, and also EM-8000CV because of how yellow it made everything look. I suspect the EM-8000 I have might have been a bad batch, since others report it's milky in the can and clear after drying. Mine's not, and I'm not going to buy another gallon just to find out. So I focused on EnduroVar and Minwax Oil Modified Poly. EnduroVar pushes the final color towards red. Minwax has a more neutral effect, just slightly towards red.

Here are photos of some of the more than 50 samples I made. All were sanded to 220 grit. I used DNA with the TT dye. I did not raise the grain first. I scuff sanded with 325 grit between finish coats. I applied the Waterlox and ARS with a rag, and the WB's with a foam brush. Everything got three finish coats except the Waterlox which got 4.

On the yellow side:


Waterlox, rubbed out at the bottom:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNuyjmGOKuJ5yZzcVXCkm__tKgr7tgY31NXee1pCAivCe hUSnKBZppSccMlOtaaLtdCMbG_hU_RHOim6smBd41TB6gEAQki gV-MCrE1peZMuRYlyF_eKJ6MGYCFvPv4ocwD-S_-28SyajjB8QuM1Q10YA=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

ARS over amber shellac:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPLbBj-2lfUicp0u_nsM-E_Q49U_8s3HdJMvU0DITMIdqM4NXj4VW5aSDugrA671KQWCKpn 0yXXXtdScFrY8h_Fj6FsGBwZLFr-7O-xoDk4ZkDv4o98chB99ARtvrGfwqW-YnC-hAx23UWHrDLuAq7Zew=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

TT Golden Brown + Honey Amber, Minwax topcoat:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPS1cykNAiHkCTjwBZXVsTSRxQy2rPBi7sHO7B4MrHhAh vm7HENIhQHWmUX_Pdqlkr0G3O6_N988HTctd5UpFf1FmOtBGrw jECl0MKqPMGlj_-KcLGB19Qs1gzNPKyKCR986kRnPuRyPtXEN2VHrLR2ug=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

TT higher Golden Brown + Honey Amber - Minwax:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOhnGCDxJSMcOAx34Puchifg5FlgpT4EoyeocuwAGZ63b 7TaTtec9cKve_q_YHVtUEgkd0s4wz4OCkKXAsinNzEHkMZUSRK R2dP8Nh3NHvLYOUGqglZfEYqVWYexmzQlLPD6zvmCdiI-DMZJAyhv3zd7w=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

TT Dark Vintage Maple - Minwax:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNg9aeL6OpH6u3MpPWED-5r3csZnL_oLQ_O0btKvxZ7wklaHmSaa82OX1dnnxJbpkPpRO3O MvOaI9SQUyhCitzyHjD0IAiCRAJUC_q5WxYggHkcfRX7-tWawtQZ43e8SEODPYzmgX0QX5BAS1JWTDENLQ=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1


On the neutral to red side:

Less TT Dark Vintage Maple - Minwax:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMDySDC7MK3uEhuAgaOFBDoMPrNR372rYdHbSsfAGFDwq MccnzIJgh53FFrJs1wvchPUN_sgKQGzujxw6HSaPxcLXXXXvQ5 aZTb64922SrR__PwdDIdRloYjyaFkSNew99h3LZTK-LdOxvko1PEMSRvtA=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1


TT Brown Mahogany - Minwax:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPakbkM7MwpqGIvoJOkGmAoL8-ZDtWBA0WTMONGYPDOS9DQVsNrfC_9yWPln3ztAaitLjlTUd8Fz xg4N6fgqE6hw30gIDV_Aj-UpIh8nZ2pBOm2itzLd7Fu4QwSZWza8eG7nJvsYORi-DifN1OJk52PlQ=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

TT Dark Vintage Maple - EnduroVar gloss, bottom rubbed out:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNFXTSZBNA24PHqKNfGKx5APgMlvAEckqroQJqADxxvY9 pvW6icB9j8q1JKbVRlSh8tkMGCOJuJEAFFldVDkq1iR3X0b7tv RVzE2DPHe7Qf9Z0PpiqbHqIc2GZc-gjJn8-LlLPo65b8R7j2SAl7zANimA=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1


TT Golden Brown - Minwax:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOpjiWzLlo-Q9qFMFEhs3wzQw9-h7DXlUkt89TBaCTNhjJwYdf59dzeS4ARLHK09vACeaqeqZriMg zFku57J_v3SKlZe4EXGqfgwA7GXpFJrbcKPOJLy0wyJ9AeZSKw DgWsRPs2jp761bgx-T5Z-HYtRg=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1


I will send most of these samples to my customer for her to choose from.

John

[John TenEyck]

I did some additional work to try to make the maple darker while having minimal impact on the mahogany. Dye alone didn't work, but I found that using a toner over the dye did. For example, here is a sample made with dye followed by 3 coats of my topcoat:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPZDfXAnqftKvgmFtgvltr5mt8OJ2VA4tEVn4n9WnCTli bfhUjNf8k5hTcRL87Tl9Y1FqZhpY5Sg0vXhUWrun6aq5Y0_2nS GV4zbA4G9kqoC1xpmpYJ46BXffPPDzUajtwOlskzg0S_XP6_tU C5IKtRVg=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1

Here is a sample that started the same as above, but I added a toner after the first finish coat, followed by a second clearcoat, for the same total of three.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMBJ8ec_CMf-UhBDVwaAVhVpAAXiZlYES0CF9MtzhxTWL02mW-NnAZaCRJR29Mly2hy4VGap45ey9-3pg2fzhbesblYpra_caPAVnfcbjzf6SFPBJ9CM7xAZpFlWb60l OrcZU3t70NHQAviO8rB7Yniaw=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1

The mahogany hardly changed while the maple got a lot deeper in color.

John

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Natural MinWax wood stain has a very similar affect. A little raw umber or burnt umber artists oil color mixed in amplifies the effect.

[Steven Cooper2]

How big of a board will you need in the end? Does it for in your oven?

I "accidentally" torrefied some maple in my oven while drying it at 350f overnight wrapped tight in foil and it looks amazing. If your pieces will fit it might be worth a shot.

Careful about that whole burning the house down thing though

[Jim Becker]

Natural MinWax wood stain has a very similar affect. A little raw umber or burnt umber artists oil color mixed in amplifies the effect.
With the close grained maple John is using, pigments are not the best thing because they can get no grip. Hence, using dye. Minwax stains are pigment focused...great in open pore woods, but often disappointing in close grain species. The dye is also fine with open grain like the mahogany that is the majority of the wood in John's project.

[John TenEyck]

This is what I'll be finishing:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOeBChOHx2WBjC5kljJLa2SHo1241aJDEuhz2MbWpDoPS ppUuYGRPalnmr3HO8DjSKDEhsAiYdrM1MZaE-kb_cwlNhTJIjeOCa0MbdpkIQN1_rFxUnJlce6yCnjlvbnQTqGd rLpqU2fnb9n_oUBczuULA=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

I sent the 5 following sample sets off to my customer yesterday. Hopefully, she'll like one of them or at least give me some direction to pursue.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNmiU82xt9VkpQfjiR9RUWHLvmVVoCTyiz3CuK5Wm7enG dLBk4X_0q0iRBkc2AEhWa24NU4hbn-vQlJo0rdEJpsThBh7GhF4jH_sBjwEhaYnls9FTo0fSvL7EpjTJ 1SSsyNtAEfozD_eRrrUsOWi6YFMQ=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPDPdX7Zhh62ZFJo1h2QrJ0DhKuG2senYdcKzXZF3y8iF 5jJb0Q7AWCF1gEm1GBT7E4UF2FK8xKaLWMODIwajsWbz8pw2r9 rXUQ3glxH4DJFradcbX2na9LBdqKhCHhRygWLwO8K8XbWLAZiK Fu7M0oHw=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPZDfXAnqftKvgmFtgvltr5mt8OJ2VA4tEVn4n9WnCTli bfhUjNf8k5hTcRL87Tl9Y1FqZhpY5Sg0vXhUWrun6aq5Y0_2nS GV4zbA4G9kqoC1xpmpYJ46BXffPPDzUajtwOlskzg0S_XP6_tU C5IKtRVg=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMkYrTTsaVKb6aerN3R8h7kR0d7NsVxheOhKXDn4rt0FZ nnHzsDfz6-oGnzwB5Z0mgXiKlBEBXU5KgB_hQI12zhyE-fLxwd3FN_Rjqspl1xU9cLKbKt0pFJ8yuUTJzYxvueGogCz3lZ2 bB6mcoamKu9qA=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMBJ8ec_CMf-UhBDVwaAVhVpAAXiZlYES0CF9MtzhxTWL02mW-NnAZaCRJR29Mly2hy4VGap45ey9-3pg2fzhbesblYpra_caPAVnfcbjzf6SFPBJ9CM7xAZpFlWb60l OrcZU3t70NHQAviO8rB7Yniaw=w498-h885-s-no?authuser=1


John

[Maurice Mcmurry]

With the close grained maple John is using, pigments are not the best thing because they can get no grip. Hence, using dye. Minwax stains are pigment focused...great in open pore woods, but often disappointing in close grain species. The dye is also fine with open grain like the mahogany that is the majority of the wood in John's project.

I will post some images of my vintage amber maple done with plain old wood stain.

[John TenEyck]

I will post some images of my vintage amber maple done with plain old wood stain.

I look forward to seeing them Maurice. I'm always interested in learning new things.

I've used glazes before and I'm wondering if that's how you are using the neutral base and added pigments.

Thanks.

John

[Maurice Mcmurry]

You are certainly going the extra mile to get the colors just right. That is a beautiful table so the stakes are high. The maple and mahogany items I have made are maple on the front and mahogany on the back. My technique may be a bust.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Left to right, 1= Golden Oak + artists paint not wiped, 2= natural minwax + oil paint, 3= G.O. home-brew wiped, 4= 2 coats natural minx not wiped, 5= 1 coat N.M. not wiped, 6= 1x N.M. slow wipe, 7=1x N.M. quick wipe. No varnish on any yet. When I stain Maple I sand no finer Than 180.

518115
--1---2-----3----4---5---6---7

518116

[John TenEyck]

That was very thoughtful of you, Maurice, to actual show those on both mahogany and maple. I really appreciate your efforts. Were those photos taken right after you did the testing or after they were thoroughly dry? Would you be willing to put some varnish on them to see how they change?

John

[Maurice Mcmurry]

They were not thoroughly dry. They are after 3 hours near a fan. I will try some varnishes later.

[Tom M King]

Lot of useful information here. Maybe think about making this thread a sticky.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

some varnish

John

Here are image of a very poorly applied coat of polycrylic down the middle of the maple and along the edge of the mahogany, then side by side. I will add oil varnish and natural light later in the week.

518152 518153

[John TenEyck]

Just to wrap this up, I ended up using a toner to get the color I needed on the maple while keeping the mahogany compatible. I sprayed one coat of Minwax Oil Modified Polyurethane, followed by another coat with 1 drop of Transtint Golden Brown in 30 ml of finish, followed by a second coat with half the amount of dye. It was amazing how much this little amount of dye changed the color compared to dying the wood first. Despite that, I would have preferred to dye the wood first, but I couldn't get the right color no matter how many samples I made.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPdnZuHdbUukmMVONVkPoyBcbxeCjRw_bQiWvu1x2HzpV co6cbuALAUXtf_CGocVO9N-w0ck73s9i4yAS0eUwBtEF0WQ_M1hQkZvQBb96XGZgs7ZotcHYZ Jia7IzJcN7Y2gfHkKrx4ov9TD9e8NN845RA=w1573-h885-s-no?authuser=1


I had a little trouble spraying the Minwax with the first coat. It wasn't as flat and smooth as I would have liked, but after I sanded it back flat the toner coats went on really well. I found I needed slightly higher inlet pressure (30 psi) to get fine atomization, and that was the key to getting flat, even coats. Similar to EM-8000CV, the air cap and needle tip stayed pretty much free of build up over the 3 days I had the finish in my gun. The product has very low odor, dries pretty quickly, and sands to powder w/o clogging the sandpaper in less than 2 hours. I got an almost flawless finish on the third coat, free of nibs. It had no tendency to block after drying, which made it worry free leaving the parts on stickers between coats.

After some tests samples had cured a couple of weeks I tested it for chemical and heat durability. Bourbon and lacquer thinner left no permanent damage over the 30 minutes I left them on the piece. Boiling water with a mug set on top for an hour or two didn't hurt it either, except the mug left a small ring in the finish in some areas as if it had melted in. I think it's going to be pretty durable after it fully cures. At $72/gallon I'd say this stuff is a winner. And for anyone using a brush, it goes on beautifully. No bubbles, and levels great. Whether spraying or using a brush, however, it has a tendency to run/sag on vertical surfaces, so you have to apply thin coats.

John

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the follow up. I learned a lot on this thread. Mostly that coloring is not something I want to do ;) Thanks for the Minwax OMP review. I have to try it. Not to ask too much of you, but if you can do the solvent tests again in a few weeks after cure, I'd really appreciate it.

[Michael Schuch]

I haven't used Waterlox in a couple of decades. Instead I mix my own: 1/3 varnish, 1/3 Boiled linseed oil or tung oil and 1/3 turpentine with a drop of Japan dryer. The first coat I mix thin for maximum penetration. If the project is going to see sunlight I will replace the oil based varnish with spar varnish for some UV protection. Spar varnish does take considerably longer to dry than regular varnish.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the follow up. I learned a lot on this thread. Mostly that coloring is not something I want to do ;) Thanks for the Minwax OMP review. I have to try it. Not to ask too much of you, but if you can do the solvent tests again in a few weeks after cure, I'd really appreciate it.

You should learn how to color, Prashun, even if only for your own work. Dyes and toners offer a whole new world of possibilities. Dye, in particular, can produce effects that cannot be achieved with finish alone.

I'll be happy to test the specimen again in a few weeks.

John

[Jim Becker]

Prushun, I agree with John...play with this because sometimes a tiny adjustment to tone/hue totally elevates things for some strange reason.

[John TenEyck]

Prashun, I'll use this project as an example of what just a little dye can do. This little table is sapele and birdseye maple. They didn't harmonize together very well until I dyed everything with just a little Transtint dye. I'm not sure if it was Brown Mahogany or another, I'd have to look, but it gave the maple a slight reddish tint, and highlighted the grain in both the birdseye and the sapele. Sorry, I don't have a "before" picture, but the colors didn't go together nearly as well.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOxJs4ncjfH3yULQcY4tweUFZ409iBk0s1AwQ9aIU2E4W G77QlEoqIFOGip_FfE-I8OL1dwbmJ167_6vTQ2QFeRJfAa2d6Tem9P7TI5bLJstCc7DBb Esr0-7wwu0qwN7xS6Ih5zOrNqEv9kMmd8305Djw=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1

A more extensive example to really show why this is a skill you want to develop. I cut down this mahogany door to fit a new opening. In the process I had to make a new bottom rail. The door is mahogany. I used sapele for the new bottom rail. The rest of the frame is original, just stripped and sanded to bare wood. Here's the door ready to finish, with the original panel installed.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMSyruahZc3s-PAP9sUCkeGvTomO6Wckt1ITaHnMB6hqcGefJVntF99opEhKRkh 5qQiQQLjO6s3eu4KuQOnI57cMsFcOA5QzbkNZLnrK0OF28oEry mqDV8tmY_gJFqzZqOpW9YsT6U_yJ1iR1Jc3Ki7KQ=w1180-h885-s-no?authuser=1

I first sprayed it with a mix of amber shellac, DNA and Transtint Dark Vintage Maple. Why this color? Because that's the lightest color you see in the panel (if you look close in person).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPBzPMNxKvP0NhKJ2nOGxNCgahqSQA2a6c0DTaRxaqkxk dw00eLGSSGhw2S4h6yWR_XpYsT6O7U84kA14aSM-jzti9XZjXoPxGdf8rMi2L9SJ4tI2CppBw-fAt-MD4ORYgE0X-iCWK8KK0w9NV36J2Zug=w1180-h885-s-no?authuser=1


I sprayed several coats of that mix, then I sprayed it with Sealcoat shellac with Green and Red dye to shift the color (it was too red) towards brown to match the panel. That was an on-the-fly adjustment, which you often need to do to get the color just right. The original door was done with shellac, so I used no other topcoat.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPMxnFJrtqqXOf_1SUN0e9gEBhSYOSYtHgpA7RvaxE3mT b-pePZ3vEQumuzZ3K9Jp9a_pkNMPYw3SW8pZmJLC7KFfO3wrJB8s 8DGbnTT4DHWyLincVQrqa6eGhArtU0YDhgpQBSTaZGfGbdcy3h PvruOg=w664-h885-s-no?authuser=1

And here's a bonus one that I won't go through all the steps, but involved a pretty yellow dye, then a stain, then a toner, and finally the topcoat. When you look at it, it's clear you can't replicate it with just one step because of the dark and light areas. The loose drawer was the original I had to match with the new cabinet.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPp9U56KUCRYL39OuGbFBK3d5BMyvzsKD8mum9hc-Mq2jgACe1s9NMk5RQkCDoA8lk09UBsi_OoO5K0Zfsb_Bfn1E1r hoHQSFw29kBYIj_2ThpFrZL30VnRoWcpT7e8W70PigIVD7y7F5 03Yo8UGx1Nmg=w1180-h885-s-no?authuser=1



Give it a go. It's not hard if you have a discriminating eye for color. Matching a finish, like the second example, really teaches you how a finish can be built to replicate not only the correct color, but the correct look (depth, opacity, etc). And that's a skill that will help elevate your original pieces.

John

[Prashun Patel]

I'm pretty comfortable with dyeing and toning. I've done a fair bit of it, including matching and layering for color depth. I agree, the possibilities are endless. It's just a ton of work. I appreciate the way you meticulously test. Your client is very fortunate to have you. Beautiful pieces.

[Patrick McCarthy]

John, i don't care what anyone else says :D, your projects are pretty darn impressive! Thank you for the ongoing education.

Best, Patrick