Best Shaper Under $5000?

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey everyone I have a nice router table, but I've been thinking of upgrading to a shaper. I'm thinking 5hp would be ideal, but I'm not sure what other features exactly I should be looking for.

There are 3 that seem like a good fit and I'm hoping to get some feedback based on their specs and/or personal experiences. I'm also open to other recommendations of course:

Laguna Pro
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-pro-shaper-5-hp?variant=43403991842954&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-_mvBhDwARIsAA-Q0Q4PHYZgfdhDvKEeKm1md0rvDwxwc1TKh7h6ErxZoztbO8XLF pdDlpoaAgNgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oliver - Seems like a steal at this price
https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool-shop/products/oliver-machinery-single-phase-shaper-10047?sku=10047.002&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-_mvBhDwARIsAA-Q0Q66h3u_MNPvTZRg2hW9boHGrgiA_JpfuZGDZdserbEuUDDKm ZoiOngaApi_EALw_wcB

Hammer - I like the slider but it's only 4hp and costs $5k
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/products/shapers-c1949/shaper-f3-p421957

Thanks everyone for the help!

[Cary Falk]

I have the Laguna Pro 5hp. I had a Grizzly 1026 before. I believe a shaper lives and dies by the fence. I love the fence on the Laguna and hated the one on the Grizzly. The Oliver fence looks similar to the Laguna. The Hammer has a tilting spindle but I don't know how much I would use that. If you have any specific questions on the Laguna let me know.

[Richard Coers]

There is never a "best", just one that has the features someone likes. Your listing of 3 proves the point.

[Josh Baldwin]

There is never a "best", just one that has the features someone likes. Your listing of 3 proves the point.

Yea I guess I'm wondering from people that know more about shapers than I do what features or pros some of these have that actually matter to people.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have the Laguna Pro 5hp. I had a Grizzly 1026 before. I believe a shaper lives and dies by the fence. I love the fence on the Laguna and hated the one on the Grizzly. The Oliver fence looks similar to the Laguna. The Hammer has a tilting spindle but I don't know how much I would use that. If you have any specific questions on the Laguna let me know.

Yea I tend to agree on the tilting. I'm sure it is cool, but probably not super useful for me. Thanks for the info on the Laguna. Seems like a solid unit.

[Nick Crivello]

Where are you located? Are you set on a new machine? Do you have three phase available?

I’m asking because you’re likely to be able to get a into a really nice older euro machine at that price point.

[andrew whicker]

I have had one w a tilting head for 9 months or so. I haven't used the tilting head yet but I would have used the sliding bed if it had one for stiles.

So I would put that higher on the list. But then again I can always buy an aftermarket solution for the sliding bed but I can't add a tilting head later.

Also a shaper without a power feeder wouldn't be using it to its full potential.

I'm not a shaper expert yet. Just made cab doors, locking miter joints, a template setup, and some shiplap so far. But the power feed is key even with manual feed tooling.

[Josh Baldwin]

Where are you located? Are you set on a new machine? Do you have three phase available?

I’m asking because you’re likely to be able to get a into a really nice older euro machine at that price point.

I'm in Richmond VA. I've looked around quite a bit and haven't really found a good machine near me. Has to be single phase unfortunately.

[Mel Fulks]

I'm in Richmond VA. I've looked around quite a bit and haven't really found a good machine near me. Has to be single phase unfortunately.

Josh, I’m in Richmond ,now retired . There used to be a place that sold used machines. Don’t if there is one now. All the shops bought
used stuff when I was working.

[Ray Selinger]

I have a BusyBee (Grizzly) # 1026 . A Powermatic #26 clone. Real shapers have 5hp motors,1 1/4" shafts and power feeds. Ones like mine are merely serious hobby machines. I re-machined the fence system, it needed it.

[Larry Edgerton]

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/545659.html

[Cary Falk]

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/545659.html

Looks nice but it is 3phase and 400 miles away from OP.

[Bill Dufour]

The Oliver is just one made in China with a Oliver tag glued on. I have no idea about quality and features. I would not be surprised if Grizzly does not sell the same one at lower prices including reasonable shipping.
Only harry home shop here but I think a sliding table would be very nice. A tilting spindle seems nice but adds more to adjust and fall out of alinement.
Very seriously look at used. Not much to go wrong on a shaper unless you need cnc control on spindle height.
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

To get quality, 5hp up, you need to use a VFD and get a three phase machine. Or you can swap out the motor for about the same cost. A vfd will give you soft start and braking.
Bill D.
just to show cost range with feeder. No way I would use a 7.5hp without a feeder
https://www.ebay.com/itm/355501668332?itmmeta=01HSQ50QP5HDWH7JAZGC29VZY3&hash=item52c58cf7ec&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8MsOZUUT8HJTW5Mueip5p26S0FuF% 252FgbX0JO4bWiihftj4DRrQdfTel%252Bh826T%252BSMiAq4 t955K9RgTbbtwpIRwQS4SUgE0vhZKOmteZt6Kk9%252BYk4sMl rA1o2RnZ30wE86RnEWx9Dj2zVVqfJjfAYCcF9otl4HsQilj%25 2FiE5wbun2oLzLHhWpojxRbXO6lY%252Fsp3jCuMGqzrvZZO8G VFDlhM7plYJdk0VnNrtCfy3iqQVF%252BKeQzMC6lElVBPdYkm RbQPdrD3qHeKymEXvGVRCzpZqd8EnECrWXuRjukd3ucukEPSiS uSDhCOaqEi080DT8TNnhg%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296289910007?itmmeta=01HSQ50QSS2WG5PV9P0P49TTGT&hash=item44fc413cf7%3Ag%3AzikAAOSwKrhl8OvF&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwKvlc1K0Ae66ts4lciZ007lEM0uKB WFXfb1vpeHtYh7u9E63VIVYI91uTUTcijN2CF75qG1zknBGzJd YWJvyqfW5eW7ah1A0NztTS1WM8wJQW6GHfZCnL6TPDIy7ewK9% 2FDrtK9Mu2KhI87Cp1E9H%2Fb1423exjtEnMoQPr8qHf6Nw52O kPduzddv8D4inGSfLdidUM0p%2Fx8AR9AJT5JUSMpSyhE0235g cfUe9LzE0RHAYgkxFD9c%2BH3eyaeH%2FChHPWQ%3D%3D%7Ctk p%3ABk9SR_r8guXNYw&LH_ItemCondition=4

[Bill Dufour]

To get quality 5hp up you need to use a VFD and get a three phase machine. On ebay today a 7.5 Hp VFD is around $200. Or you can swap out the motor for a used one at about double the cost. A vfd will give you soft start and braking.
The Oliver and Laguna look identical to me except for switch placement
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

What is this machine?
Bill D
https://www.ebay.com/itm/171233918315?itmmeta=01HSQ5WWM4ZEDVPQDEF2K5JNVF&hash=item27de563d6b:g:n~oAAOxycmBS7qzE&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4BiZ40DlEeFhn%2BVewBXoHtmdU7z aqnug9Prirg4ZlkZJEhbeN4sEhovX6uS6aa46nBN3JmKPP7IfB tY%2Bws8fvB4wqdWwkUEcbW4M33lM2uMulb3UDlkYmyUpEn0o4 %2FdxgkyQNBNpclsU3wa9VTdKR6moyiX6Oi96nUqKkemUtcp2G 2S6ebpnAftnDtESarId9k8UrUmHjV6Wy3F5OCpbOWOf2tkdMDe b%2FEHgvPrmzBFEd2exsFviyWnKhU9LvtWnihgq87%2BUjxLwB FNASHpRQBqe8NRfT%2FFkxE9%2B7FFAt9P7%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5 DK8-XNYw

[Warren Lake]

thats a good price to run a VFD and solve three phase. Not sure if you need a locking nut or washer if you are using that braking. i wouldnt say you need a feeder for 7.5 HP any HP can whack you. I have feeders and dont always use them. I like hand feeding. What matters is if your set up and how safe it is or not. Id like to have tilt but dont. There are ways around it depending on the cut.

[John Pendery]

Josh, I would encourage you to look into vfd’s and phase converters especially if you plan to buy more or replace machines in the future. Three phase machines open up a different world of quality and (if patient) bang for your buck.

That shaper Larry posted is a great example. Nice heavy machine with a great power feeder. I’m also a big fan of Ed. He’s a extremely trustworthy guy that sells clean machines priced fairly.

I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

Sorry if this has gone off on a three phase tangent, Josh!

[Josh Baldwin]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

Hey Bill thanks for all the info. So it was my understanding that I would need a phase converter to go to 3 phase and it would be something like $2k per machine for a good one. I'm not sure I need anything more than 5hp to be honest. I'm a 1 man custom furniture maker and I just can't see 5hp not being enough power to do what I need to do, but maybe I'm wrong. I just know my current 4hp jointer/planer and 4hp felder saw cut everything effortlessly. I was thinking of jumping to 5hp separate jointer/planers in the near future, but again I just can't imagine needing more power than that. I wired my shop myself, so I can run whatever amperage is necessary.

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, I’m in Richmond ,now retired . There used to be a place that sold used machines. Don’t if there is one now. All the shops bought
used stuff when I was working.

Hey Mel I'll look around for a used shop, but I'm not sure of one off the top of my head. Thanks

[Josh Baldwin]

I have had one w a tilting head for 9 months or so. I haven't used the tilting head yet but I would have used the sliding bed if it had one for stiles.

So I would put that higher on the list. But then again I can always buy an aftermarket solution for the sliding bed but I can't add a tilting head later.

Also a shaper without a power feeder wouldn't be using it to its full potential.

I'm not a shaper expert yet. Just made cab doors, locking miter joints, a template setup, and some shiplap so far. But the power feed is key even with manual feed tooling.

Hey Andrew thanks for the info. Yea the sliding bed definitely appeals to me and I would definitely get a power feeder. Looks like the Hammer unit with slider and power feeder would be about $5500, so not crazy expensive, but definitely pushing the budget. I currently use a coping sled on the router table and it's ok, but nowhere near as nice as a slider.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have the Laguna Pro 5hp. I had a Grizzly 1026 before. I believe a shaper lives and dies by the fence. I love the fence on the Laguna and hated the one on the Grizzly. The Oliver fence looks similar to the Laguna. The Hammer has a tilting spindle but I don't know how much I would use that. If you have any specific questions on the Laguna let me know.

Hey Cary do you ever feel like the 5hp isn't enough power? To me it seems like it would be more than enough, but just wondering your thoughts on it.

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, I would encourage you to look into vfd’s and phase converters especially if you plan to buy more or replace machines in the future. Three phase machines open up a different world of quality and (if patient) bang for your buck.

That shaper Larry posted is a great example. Nice heavy machine with a great power feeder. I’m also a big fan of Ed. He’s a extremely trustworthy guy that sells clean machines priced fairly.

I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

Sorry if this has gone off on a three phase tangent, Josh!

Ha Hey John yea I tend to get the 3 phase comments a lot when asking about machines. I'm open to it, but it just seems like a hell of an expense for more power that I'm just not sure does me much good. When I priced it out it was about $2k per machine if I was looking at it correctly. I'm open to used machines, but to be honest some of the older ones that are hard to find information on and the companies aren't easy to contact or get help from if there are problems do worry me. I'm not an engineer and I absolutely hate tinkering with machines and calibrating them. So for me unless it's in amazing condition it's hard to want to go used just to save a few grand if it leads to lots of time wasted. I know for some guys they really enjoying that part of the process, but I suck at it. All of that is to say that I wouldn't rule it out, but if for the same price or just a grand more I can get a 5hp single phase that isn't as beefy but certainly does what I need it to do then I would probably go with a new one.

[Bill Dufour]

Right now on ebay a no name 10hp VFD is under $200. That should run a 5hp motor fine if it is really rated for single phase input. You will need one for each machine. In theory you can switch between multiple machines if they are all using the same HP motors.
A single rotary converter can be used to supply all the three phase stuff in your shop. On ebay today a new American Rotary 10 hp is 1,200 delivered. A 20hp is under 2,000. It is recommended that a rotary be double the HP of the largest HP motor to get things started. A work around is to start some lower horsepower motors and let them run before turning on the too large motor. Jointer, duct collector, disk sander all work well as extra idler motors.
A FVD output can not be switched. All switching must be done VFD off or using the low voltage wiring from the vfd. This means any machine switches can not be used or they must be rewired to control just the VFD. Rotary use any switch any way you want.
Bill D

[John Pendery]

Ha Hey John yea I tend to get the 3 phase comments a lot when asking about machines. I'm open to it, but it just seems like a hell of an expense for more power that I'm just not sure does me much good. When I priced it out it was about $2k per machine if I was looking at it correctly. I'm open to used machines, but to be honest some of the older ones that are hard to find information on and the companies aren't easy to contact or get help from if there are problems do worry me. I'm not an engineer and I absolutely hate tinkering with machines and calibrating them. So for me unless it's in amazing condition it's hard to want to go used just to save a few grand if it leads to lots of time wasted. I know for some guys they really enjoying that part of the process, but I suck at it. All of that is to say that I wouldn't rule it out, but if for the same price or just a grand more I can get a 5hp single phase that isn't as beefy but certainly does what I need it to do then I would probably go with a new one.


Josh, those are very fair points and good to know where you want to spend your time. $2k per machine is way high though. Bill is correct in his reply. Rotary phase converters (or phase perfect for a bit more) are whole shop solutions where you do some simple wiring from single phase panel to the converter and then to a three phase panel that can power multiple machines. VFD’s are good solutions for individual machines and cost a couple hundred bucks. A very hands off option for VFD’s is offered by Jack Forsberg. Might be worth shooting him an email if you want to check into it. Nothing wrong with wanting to stick to single phase new machines, but I’d at least look into all options.

[Jared Sankovich]

Look for used euro like the SAC on woodweb Larry posted. You can't have too heavy or too many hp on a shaper. Tilt is nice, sliding tables are ok. I've stalled 6hp, but not 9hp.

As a point of reference I didn't spend 4k total for the 3 shapers I have (all are 3ph) with feeders, and under 5k with vfds included.

[Curt Harms]

There may be another advantage to 3 phase if you hate working on machines. When you hear about troubles with single phase electric motors there are often 2 culprits; capacitors and centrifugal switches. 3 phase motors have neither. On startup the surge should be less with 3 phase so easier on the building's electrical system. VFDs can be programmed for rate of acceleration, I think the one I bought defaulted to 10 seconds. At that rate there would be hardly any start surge.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks nice but it is 3phase and 400 miles away from OP.

Can run on 1ph with a rotary phase converter.

[Aaron Inami]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.

[Cary Falk]

Hey Cary do you ever feel like the 5hp isn't enough power? To me it seems like it would be more than enough, but just wondering your thoughts on it.

I have never felt 5hp was not enough on any of my tools. I am not a business. The largest cutter I spin is a Freud carbide insert raised panel cutter. I usually take multiple cuts at slower feed speeds to reduce tear out and get better cut quality. I wanted to add the only negative on the Laguna is the above table controls. This gets in the way of the power feeder sometimes. I am trying to figure how to mount it under the front of the table like it's twin the PM2700. Grizzly now has the G0900 which is also a twin but does not come with the router bit collets if that matters.

[Jared Sankovich]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.

Rewiring the low voltage vfd controls to interface with the shaper front panel is trivial. That SAC is fully manual tilt/rise/fall. The only potential additional hoops is if it had a motor brake and or power spindle lock.

[Phillip Mitchell]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31733964430&dest=usa&ref_=ps_ggl_17721428148&cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade_20to50-_-product_id=COM9780854421503USED-_-keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAjwnv-vBhBdEiwABCYQA1-Yw7X8ZR4lU4llFOPA2brWjw2pQ2nBj0Xeu6rK3UQFmFN6tpwsz RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

[Brian Holcombe]

As Jared mentions, a vfd can be wired for use with push button controls.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hey everyone I have a nice router table, but I've been thinking of upgrading to a shaper. I'm thinking 5hp would be ideal, but I'm not sure what other features exactly I should be looking for.

There are 3 that seem like a good fit and I'm hoping to get some feedback based on their specs and/or personal experiences. I'm also open to other recommendations of course:

Laguna Pro
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-pro-shaper-5-hp?variant=43403991842954&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-_mvBhDwARIsAA-Q0Q4PHYZgfdhDvKEeKm1md0rvDwxwc1TKh7h6ErxZoztbO8XLF pdDlpoaAgNgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oliver - Seems like a steal at this price
https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool-shop/products/oliver-machinery-single-phase-shaper-10047?sku=10047.002&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-_mvBhDwARIsAA-Q0Q66h3u_MNPvTZRg2hW9boHGrgiA_JpfuZGDZdserbEuUDDKm ZoiOngaApi_EALw_wcB

Hammer - I like the slider but it's only 4hp and costs $5k
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/products/shapers-c1949/shaper-f3-p421957

Thanks everyone for the help!

I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)

3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size

Regards. Rod

[Josh Baldwin]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31733964430&dest=usa&ref_=ps_ggl_17721428148&cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade_20to50-_-product_id=COM9780854421503USED-_-keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAjwnv-vBhBdEiwABCYQA1-Yw7X8ZR4lU4llFOPA2brWjw2pQ2nBj0Xeu6rK3UQFmFN6tpwsz RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

Hey Phillip I definitely should have clarified some of this stuff in the original post. I am not a full time cabinet maker or crown moulding maker.

My goal is to use the shaper like an upgraded router table. I'd like to be able to flush trim without having to take several passes with a router bit for example. I'd like to be able to make lock miters in one pass. I'd like to be able to use rails and stiles bits with cleaner results. I will not be making raised panel cabinet doors. I build furniture and the main thing I use the router table for is definitely flush trimming wood to templates.

I definitely appreciate the 3 phase/old school giant machinery crowd and what you're all looking for out of a machine. However, I have several good friends who have these "cheaper" machines and I've never heard any of them tell me they felt limited by them. That's not to say they're as good, I understand they're not as heavy duty. But I also do personally value "new/works out of the box" vs spending days setting up/dialing in/repairing older models. So while I do think I could be swayed into the 3 phase crowd, when I see these older machines listed from brands that don't even exist anymore and/or don't make parts available if repairs are needed, then that's where I can't personally make that leap.

Would you mind explaining to me what would suck about the fences on the Hammer or Laguna for example? I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for out of a good fence.

Thanks for all the help!

[Josh Baldwin]

I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)

3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size

Regards. Rod

Great, thanks for the info Rod.

Ok good to know, I wasn't sure about the power compared to the others. Is there anything you feel limited by with the Hammer? I'm curious if you have an opinion of how your workflow/abilities might change if you had one of these massive 3 phase machines that some people are recommending. I do feel like they're correct that there are certainly benefits to the size/power of those shapers, but just wondering if you have any thoughts compared to the Hammer for example.

Also, any accessories you would recommend other than a good power feeder for the Hammer?

[Brian Holcombe]

3ph is great, It’s nice not to feel limited based on that. So the added cost/effort of getting some sort of phase conversion is helpful.

I have my 7hp Martin running on 1ph with a VFD.

The reason many machines have large motors is simple. Large motors do not need to work as hard to accomplish the same task, therefore they live longer. Yes, you can run 3ph to its limit, doing so, wears the motor out faster. So, plan accordingly.

[Josh Baldwin]

Right now on ebay a no name 10hp VFD is under $200. That should run a 5hp motor fine if it is really rated for single phase input. You will need one for each machine. In theory you can switch between multiple machines if they are all using the same HP motors.
A single rotary converter can be used to supply all the three phase stuff in your shop. On ebay today a new American Rotary 10 hp is 1,200 delivered. A 20hp is under 2,000. It is recommended that a rotary be double the HP of the largest HP motor to get things started. A work around is to start some lower horsepower motors and let them run before turning on the too large motor. Jointer, duct collector, disk sander all work well as extra idler motors.
A FVD output can not be switched. All switching must be done VFD off or using the low voltage wiring from the vfd. This means any machine switches can not be used or they must be rewired to control just the VFD. Rotary use any switch any way you want.
Bill D

Thanks for all the info on the 3 phase setup Bill. I thought I needed a converter for each machine, so only needing 1 definitely makes it more attractive. I'm still not sure it makes sense for my situation, but I'll definitely consider it.

[Mike Wilkins]

I have a nice router table with a ton of bits, but in making a set of exterior doors I felt the need/want to get a shaper. I found a used Rockwell/Delta 3 HP shaper with a 3/4" spindle for a nice price, but found it limiting. That's when I got the itch to go bigger but not in the high horsepower realm like the Felder, Martin and others. I got the Hammer F3 shaper with sliding table, 1 1/4" spindle, tilting and 4 speeds. It is more than I need, especially since I am not a pro shop. But it has more than enough horsepower to run a wide assortment of cutters. Right now I am considering the router spindle for 1/2" bits and selling the router table. I can make a smaller table for using 1/4" shank bits; this would not take much space in my space-challenged shop.
Just be prepared to spend some serious coin on some good quality cutters.

[Rod Sheridan]

Great, thanks for the info Rod.

Ok good to know, I wasn't sure about the power compared to the others. Is there anything you feel limited by with the Hammer? I'm curious if you have an opinion of how your workflow/abilities might change if you had one of these massive 3 phase machines that some people are recommending. I do feel like they're correct that there are certainly benefits to the size/power of those shapers, but just wondering if you have any thoughts compared to the Hammer for example.

Also, any accessories you would recommend other than a good power feeder for the Hammer?

Hi, no a larger, more powerful shaper wouldn’t change my workflow..

I make everything from flooring to toys using the shaper, mostly furniture however.


I have a feeder, a safety bar kit for the fence opening and the tenon table/hood, as well as the curve guard for pattern shaping and sanding.

I also have a hold down clamp for end coping, tenons, bridle joints.

Below I’m grooving a rabbit toy, sanding a curved piece using a sanding drum and the curve guard, and making tenons.

Regards, Rod.
etc.517468517469517470

[Larry Edgerton]

[QUOTE=


I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

[/QUOTE]

I have a Unitronix double spindle and they are indeed a copy of Martin. The hoods are almost identical. They are HEAVY, mine weighs over 4000# with the feeder They use greasable bearings rather than the pump/oil system of Martin but I don't have a problem with that. There is a grease block on the front that has lines running to all the moving parts including bearings. I am extremely happy with mine, and I wish I had room for the one you are looking at, don't have a sliding table.

[Richard Daugird]

I have a VFD to run my metal working milling machine, was only a couple hundred bucks. Is it not true that you loose some power when using a rotary phase converter?

[Jared Sankovich]

I have a Unitronix double spindle and they are indeed a copy of Martin. The hoods are almost identical. They are HEAVY, mine weighs over 4000# with the feeder They use greasable bearings rather than the pump/oil system of Martin but I don't have a problem with that. There is a grease block on the front that has lines running to all the moving parts including bearings. I am extremely happy with mine, and I wish I had room for the one you are looking at, don't have a sliding table.

The dffa5 tilting unit with side table that was for sale awhile back was (listed) surprisingly light at 1400lbs.

[Brian Gumpper]

If you decide on the Laguna, here is the same machine different color at a lower price.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-5-hp-deluxe-spindle-shaper/g0900

[Bill Dufour]

A static phase converter looses about 1/3 of the hp. A true vfd loses no power. A rotary may lose a few percent.
Bill D

[Patrick Kane]

I have a Felder 700 saw/shaper, and i think that is a perfectly adequate machine for what you are looking to do. I made a bunch of flooring and ceiling for my timberframe shed, cope/stick stuff, pattern cuts, and recreated some 100+ year custom mouldings for my uncle's home. I would use it more if it was a freestanding shaper, which is why i havent done much tenoning work on the shaper. It is a little easier to make tenons through other methods versus moving the saw arm guard, lifting the shaper hood in place, swapping DC etc. I think it is their 5.5hp unit with variable speed. Like others said, you can and will spend a lot on tooling. Even the most basic setup of some groovers and a euro block will set you back more than a grand. Add on a feeder, and i would either up your budget or look to the used market. If you go the latter route, you should absolutely find a good machine for your needs under budget. I love oversized and unnecessary machines, but i dont think you need a 9hp top of the line shaper for patterning and cabinet doors. I think Hammer/minimax would probably be fine, but a midrange SCM/Felder is your cry once/buy once option. That previously linked SAC machine is another decent example of what to look for.

One thing i would mention is i originally sold my router table thinking the shaper would replace it. I then had to buy another router table a year or two later. Some operations--typically the quick ones--are still better off on the router table. For example, i would do a quick double-side taped template on the router table, but would build a jig for the shaper. Similarly, a quick roundover on the router table is very simple versus more setup time on the shaper.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Hey Phillip I definitely should have clarified some of this stuff in the original post. I am not a full time cabinet maker or crown moulding maker.

My goal is to use the shaper like an upgraded router table. I'd like to be able to flush trim without having to take several passes with a router bit for example. I'd like to be able to make lock miters in one pass. I'd like to be able to use rails and stiles bits with cleaner results. I will not be making raised panel cabinet doors. I build furniture and the main thing I use the router table for is definitely flush trimming wood to templates.

I definitely appreciate the 3 phase/old school giant machinery crowd and what you're all looking for out of a machine. However, I have several good friends who have these "cheaper" machines and I've never heard any of them tell me they felt limited by them. That's not to say they're as good, I understand they're not as heavy duty. But I also do personally value "new/works out of the box" vs spending days setting up/dialing in/repairing older models. So while I do think I could be swayed into the 3 phase crowd, when I see these older machines listed from brands that don't even exist anymore and/or don't make parts available if repairs are needed, then that's where I can't personally make that leap.

Would you mind explaining to me what would suck about the fences on the Hammer or Laguna for example? I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for out of a good fence.

Thanks for all the help!

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. Looking at the Hammer closer, it looks like it could be a good fit for you and certainly convenient. How much is it with 1 1/4” spindle and any sliding table accessories (crosscut fence with stops, etc) you might want?

Another used choice that comes to mind that’s similar is a Minimax / SCMI T40 or T50. Very similar machine to the Hammer above in terms of specs and capability, just a bit older. Often times tilting spindle and sliding table and somewhere around 3-5 hp motor and sometimes single phase.

I have obviously not used the fence personally on the Hammer and it may be great. I personally like a heavy cast iron fence and am mostly allergic to aluminum and plastic in my shop, but the Hammer may be great and strong enough. A fence with some type of dial-able or indexed micro adjust is very useful and worth quite a bit compared to not having that and it looks like there is a micro-adjust on the Hammer. Tilt spindle and sliding table can certainly come in handy is oddball situations (or if you do a lot of custom mill work) and are nice to have.

The Laguna and Oliver are Chaiwanese and over priced for what they are, IMO. I would be looking Grizzly instead if considering those or something like a used Powermatic 29 or similar and that will probably do everything you’d want unless you wanted to get into larger diameter / heavier tooling.

I tend to live by the motto of “Anything worth doing is worth overdoing”, so take my advice with a grain of salt. This may be why one of my shapers is 12 hp and weighs 1750#…I also would rather buy used industrial for pennies on the dollar compared to new hobby grade and spend a bit of time and $ when necessary to get it into service in my shop. I also have a whole shop phase converter and VFDs on a few machines and am set up for 3 phase at multiples voltages, so I tend to think a bit differently than most considering hobby / light professional grade machines.

The Hammer could work well for you and be convenient; I also know there are ways to get there for possibly half the price if going used but that may not be what you want to spend your time and energy on, which is a good thing to know going into all this.

Also, there will still be times when a router table is going to be the quickest and most cost effective solution for certain things…you will want to look into the cost for adding a router collet spindle to the Hammer as that could come in handy, but I wouldn’t toss your RT out if you are used to using it.

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey everyone thanks for all the help with this. I'm going to keep an eye out for a good used model and in the meantime speak with my Felder rep about getting the Hammer F3 at a discount. If it's the right price I'll probably go that direction.

[Josh Baldwin]

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. Looking at the Hammer closer, it looks like it could be a good fit for you and certainly convenient. How much is it with 1 1/4” spindle and any sliding table accessories (crosscut fence with stops, etc) you might want?

Another used choice that comes to mind that’s similar is a Minimax / SCMI T40 or T50. Very similar machine to the Hammer above in terms of specs and capability, just a bit older. Often times tilting spindle and sliding table and somewhere around 3-5 hp motor and sometimes single phase.

I have obviously not used the fence personally on the Hammer and it may be great. I personally like a heavy cast iron fence and am mostly allergic to aluminum and plastic in my shop, but the Hammer may be great and strong enough. A fence with some type of dial-able or indexed micro adjust is very useful and worth quite a bit compared to not having that and it looks like there is a micro-adjust on the Hammer. Tilt spindle and sliding table can certainly come in handy is oddball situations (or if you do a lot of custom mill work) and are nice to have.

The Laguna and Oliver are Chaiwanese and over priced for what they are, IMO. I would be looking Grizzly instead if considering those or something like a used Powermatic 29 or similar and that will probably do everything you’d want unless you wanted to get into larger diameter / heavier tooling.

I tend to live by the motto of “Anything worth doing is worth overdoing”, so take my advice with a grain of salt. This may be why one of my shapers is 12 hp and weighs 1750#…I also would rather buy used industrial for pennies on the dollar compared to new hobby grade and spend a bit of time and $ when necessary to get it into service in my shop. I also have a whole shop phase converter and VFDs on a few machines and am set up for 3 phase at multiples voltages, so I tend to think a bit differently than most considering hobby / light professional grade machines.

The Hammer could work well for you and be convenient; I also know there are ways to get there for possibly half the price if going used but that may not be what you want to spend your time and energy on, which is a good thing to know going into all this.

Also, there will still be times when a router table is going to be the quickest and most cost effective solution for certain things…you will want to look into the cost for adding a router collet spindle to the Hammer as that could come in handy, but I wouldn’t toss your RT out if you are used to using it.

Yea I definitely get that all the "american" companies are just made in china/taiwan. I only mentioned that Oliver unit because it's the same specs as the Grizzly for about 30% less. But I think I'm going to go with the Hammer unit if I can get a good price. I'm hoping for about $6000 shipped including a power feeder and a few accessories. One of those accessories is a swappable router spindle/collet. I don't know how hard it is to change it out, but in the video at least it looks quite simple. I definitely don't have room for this and the router table, so it's kind of an all or nothing situation. I still have a Festool OF 1400 and a Dewalt small router though.

I really do wish I was that guy who can look at older machines and take them apart and calibrate them, etc. But I didn't grow up around any of this stuff. I had never used a saw or any tool until about 3 years ago then I just kind of became obsessed, ha. But every single time I have to repair machinery I realize how much I hate it and how bad I am at it.

I definitely appreciate all the advice from everyone and it's always helpful hearing a variety of opinions on these things. I think what maybe pushed me over the edge with the Hammer is the few people on here that have mentioned how great they've been and I found some online reviews also saying how rock solid they are. I also have 2 other Felder machines, so I'm kind of slightly in their camp already.

[John Pendery]

Josh, check this one out:

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/545794.html

Edited to say if this machine comes with even a little bit of tooling you now have no choice but to get a rotary phase converter haha. Right in your neck of the woods!

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, check this one out:

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/545794.html

Edited to say if this machine comes with even a little bit of tooling you now have no choice but to get a rotary phase converter haha. Right in your neck of the woods!

That does loo like a serious machine. I'll definitely look into it and see if I can make it work. Thanks for the heads up.

[John Pendery]

That does loo like a serious machine. I'll definitely look into it and see if I can make it work. Thanks for the heads up.

Sure thing. That Aigner fence alone is a game changer.

[Josh Baldwin]

Sure thing. That Aigner fence alone is a game changer.

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

[Jared Sankovich]

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

Ita a aftermarket option.

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/spindle-shaper-fences-sc91590/aigner-integral-a-shaper-safety-fence-sp91601

[John Pendery]

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

It allows you to bridge the gap that would otherwise be in between the in-feed and out-feed fences with the “fingers” and have a closed continuous fence during a lot of operations. It’s a very nice feature.

517537

[Joe Calhoon]

That SCM shaper is a good deal. Far better than any others discussed, new or used. It even has a tenoning hood for running cutters larger than 250mm.
Phase converters are easy. I ran my whole shop for many years with a home made rotary converter before getting 3 phase from the utility.
Also looks like it has a pinned fence with mechanical digital readout. A very desirable option especially if using European tooling.
most new shapers in the 5000 dollar range have marginal fences.

[Albert Lee]

Bought this SCM shaper for $900, with feeder! weight is 800kg/1700lbs.

517543

[Phillip Mitchell]

Yeah, now I'm looking at the SCM! :D Looks like an ideal machine in a lot of ways including price.

[Terry Therneau]

Some small notes from my own experience. I have a router table attached to the leftside of my Unisaw. It is indeed the quickest tool for smaller things and router bits are cheap. I had a Delta HD shaper, 3/4 spindle, but sold that when I bought my Felder 700 sliding saw and shaper (2001 vintage), there was no room for both. I'm just a hobby woodworker, BTW. I did no updating or maintainance on the Felder beyond careful leveling and hooking up dust collection. Not all machines need a teardown. It was 3 phase, so I purchased a rotary phase converter and wiried it up, but I'm comfortable with wiring, The RPC only drives the Felder: basicly it serves a single wall mounted outlet.
-- The change in power and the mass of the cutters (1 1/4 shaft, 4 HP) is impressive: a completely different experience than the Delta HD. I have a 125mm Whitehill combi-head, when I put the top bearing on for pattern work a) that first approach with a board makes my butt cheeks pucker and b) the smoothness of cut and finish is a whole nother world from pattern work on the router table.
-- After a about a year and a few projects I purchased a power feeder. I saw a statement that "a power feeder turns the most dangerous tool in the shop into one of the least dangerous" and think I believe it. I made an interior walnut door for our kitchen pantry and the finish and consistency on the long cuts was better than I ever got by hand. It was also a lot quicker, and far less fearsome.
-- Yes, the tooling is expensive.
-- This unit came with a router spindle and collet. It's too much bother to change out spindles to do a routing job, but it was very useful once. I needed to create 100 feet or so of walnut shoe molding, and was able to find a router bit of that profile but not a shaper cutter (maybe I didn't know where to look). With the power feeder run a board past the shaper, cut off the profile on the Unisaw, rinse and repeat.

Terry T.

[andrew whicker]

Oh man, you need to get this ASAP. That's a 2k fence alone....


What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

[Paul J Kelly]

That aigner fence is $2k alone!!!

PK

[Nick Crivello]

While more than your planned budget, the SCM is pretty much a one and done solution. It’s a great value given all the options, accessories, age, and condition. It will hold its value as an investment well. Local too, just rent a trailer and pallet jack if you don’t already have them.

You would still need to invest in a good phase converter for your shop, but that opens the door to a lot of good options down the line.

There are a few other options on wood web to peruse as well.

[Patrick Kane]

Nothing like the ol' upsell. I think you will be happy with the Hammer machine, but for what seems like 30% more you will have 20x the machine. You have to draw the line somewhere on this stuff, but that is a sticky choice. I do agree with others that the accessories along with that lightly used machine make it a pretty good deal. That is probably a $15,000+/- package if compared to brand new from scm. Too bad he has the tenoning hood and not the aigner bowmould. The latter would be an almost perfect setup for what you want to achieve with a shaper.

[Josh Baldwin]

Nothing like the ol' upsell. I think you will be happy with the Hammer machine, but for what seems like 30% more you will have 20x the machine. You have to draw the line somewhere on this stuff, but that is a sticky choice. I do agree with others that the accessories along with that lightly used machine make it a pretty good deal. That is probably a $15,000+/- package if compared to brand new from scm. Too bad he has the tenoning hood and not the aigner bowmould. The latter would be an almost perfect setup for what you want to achieve with a shaper.

Ha yea I'm looking into possibly getting 3 phase at the house, we'll see how that turns out. Otherwise I think I'm just gonna hold off for now. If this year ends up being super successful then I'll make the plunge and upgrade the jointer/planer/shaper to nice 3 phase models as they pop up.

[Jim Becker]

Getting three phase from the street to a residential address, even if it's available "on the street" may be a tough row to hoe and quite expensive. That's one reason why so many folks who want or need to power up three phase equipment in small shops...pro or hobby regardless...use rotary phase generators or VFDs. (The latter is cost effective for a single machine, but that machine cannot have a bunch of electronics in it)

[Josh Baldwin]

Getting three phase from the street to a residential address, even if it's available "on the street" may be a tough row to hoe and quite expensive. That's one reason why so many folks who want or need to power up three phase equipment in small shops...pro or hobby regardless...use rotary phase generators or VFDs. (The latter is cost effective for a single machine, but that machine cannot have a bunch of electronics in it)

Yea I have a friend at the power company that's looking into it for me and said it might be possible if someone has it nearby. But obviously that's unlikely. Fingers crossed! Ha

[John Pendery]

Yea I have a friend at the power company that's looking into it for me and said it might be possible if someone has it nearby. But obviously that's unlikely. Fingers crossed! Ha

I recently moved shops from an industrial part of town with utility three phase to an agricultural area on the outskirts of town. Running utility three phase to my shop was around 50k. I chose to get up and running with a rotary phase converter and just recently installed a phase perfect. The rotary phase converter was simple enough to wire, but I think I was up and running with the phase perfect in under an hour. If you buy that shaper I can guarantee you will figure out a way to get three phase!

[Warren Lake]

had a friend with three phase in a home in the city grandfathered tool and die bus in a home. In the country he had a 5,000 foot building 3 phase already there and full living quarters so sort of the same only lovely area and no city negatives.

Old guy had it put in long ago and it cost but no red tape at that time. even if 50k now it wont happen, hobby guy likely and what is your zoning. Another aspect not talked about is industrial power costs more and you pay weather you are working or not for a seperate service. Old guy didnt know about Rotos and said make sure where you buy has three phase, that was wrong. In time found out about Rotos. you lose to run them but the power is cheaper. They have a ballast effect where its more efficient more you run and no one has ever explained the reality of that but its a real thing. Likely you are not much further behind on a Roto.

A smart guy here once told me you dont quite get full power on the roto compared to real three phase. Maybe the phase perfect best of all as the manufactured phase is more accurate. You can tweak to balance a roto i think with capacitors and if one machine is giving grief then it can have caps or some electric gizmo on that machine only to work in your favour.Think the term I saw was ballast.

If you have electronic breaking your machine will wear the caps in a roto. I dont want it or need it but soon as I hear it wears caps then one more reason not to have it. That info came from someone on this site and people talk about replacing caps regular. So there is negative if you have electronic breaking affecting a roto.

Ive watched auctions for towards 30 years and that shaper is good value as its complete with many parts, its low use from the photos not done a life time of service like many. Then in shops ive seen with full maintenance records on the side of the machine old stuff can be fine and often is.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Warren, a digital phase converter will produce balanced 3 phase power regardless of load, which allows 3 phase motors to run properly.

The price of them has come down over the years, and they have higher efficiency and less losses than a rotary converter.

Rotary converters, due to voltage imbalance really affect 3 phase motors that are heavily loaded, this is often a problem with dust extractors as they run near full load continuously.

I've had experiences with shops having to replace rotary converters with digital converters due to motor current imbalance issues. A few percent of voltage imbalance can be disastrous for the motor.

Regards, Rod.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I bought a 10 hp Phase Perfect last year after running a used Kay 10 HP Rotary for some years prior. Night and day difference in efficiency, noise and voltage balance. I bought the NEMA 3R outdoor enclosure for mine and installed it just outside my shop door on an exterior wall, which added some hundreds in upgraded enclosure and bit more wiring and conduit but very happy with that choice. The PP is not loud and rumbling like an RPC with idler motor, but it does make a subtle sizzling noise and the fans can be loud when they cycle. Not a big deal in a larger shop, but makes a difference to be outside of my small 500 sq ft basement shop. It was $3400 delivered with the outdoor enclosure. $3100 without, iirc, and was very close in price to the comparably sized American Rotary RPC when factoring in freight, taxes, etc.

Balanced voltage across all 3 legs and increased efficiency given the same input amperage is very nice. It can start 12 hp shaper, 9 hp planer, 9 hp table saw...no problems.

In comparison, my older Kay (that was rated to start up to 10 hp) did struggle with both the shaper and planer a bit...as in double or triple the time to get the motor up to speed compared to the PP. Just some personal experience on phase conversion. I paid about $800 for it several years back and probably ended up with around $1250 into it overall throughout the years I owned it with capacitor replacement and other maintenance / spare components, fwiw as a baseline for a used RPC option.

I wouldn't discount an appropriately sized VFD if it's really just going to be the one 3 phase machine, but rotary / phase perfect opens up so many options down the line for more 3 phase deals.

[Cary Falk]

LOL. The $5000 budget is now up to $10,000.

[Nick Crivello]

LOL. The $5000 budget is now up to $10,000.

just trying to be helpful… :D :D

[Jim Becker]

Yea I have a friend at the power company that's looking into it for me and said it might be possible if someone has it nearby. But obviously that's unlikely. Fingers crossed! Ha
If you have aerial power supply, it's easy to spot a three phase setup for one or more customers...there will generally be three transformers on the same pole, each connected to one of the three high voltage lines up top.

[Phillip Mitchell]

LOL. The $5000 budget is now up to $10,000.

Always funny how the budget can creep. In all honesty, the OP could get by with a used med duty machine for ~1-2k and save the rest for a feeder, nice tooling, etc but since the starting budget is where it is, it opened up the door to lots of other options. Lots of ways to accomplish his goal within the intended budget and it's always worth talking about all the options, imo.

[Patrick Kane]

Always funny how the budget can creep. In all honesty, the OP could get by with a used med duty machine for ~1-2k and save the rest for a feeder, nice tooling, etc but since the starting budget is where it is, it opened up the door to lots of other options. Lots of ways to accomplish his goal within the intended budget and it's always worth talking about all the options, imo.

I did warn him about the impending upsell!

I agree that making cope/stick cuts on a taiwanese shaper would be just fine. Similarly, he could make a homemade ring fence out of plywood for his pattern work. My big take away from this discussion is $5,000 will get you an adequate machine with basic tooling and a feeder, OR you should look to be around $8,000+ for a capable machine/tooling for covering almost all of your shaper bases. The fact is that most of us do not need to cover all of our shaper bases. Like i said before, i do not do tenon work on my shaper and i really have no intention of starting. And, as cool as i think euro window production is, i wont be doing that work anytime soon either. It means i dont need a machine capable of spinning 10"+ diameter stacked tooling.

The 3 phase cost and discussion is another topic entirely. I will say i only have two regrets with my current shop setup and those include; 1) not setting up a broad 3 phase converter early on(i run a few machines off separate VFDs), 2) not cutting in a double door to replace my single man door into the garage. I would have better and less expensive machines if i had easy 3 phase and a means of getting said tools through an opening greater than 32.75". As it stands, i spent more money acquiring smaller single phase tools. A third regret would be not upgrading my home service to 200amps a decade ago.

[STUART Robertson]

I wouldn't consider not having a tilting type or not having a power feed and a slding table is extra useful too.

[STUART Robertson]

You want easy micro adjustment in the fences.

[brent stanley]

If you were set on buying new, I would probably get the Hammer out of those three choices. It is built with European guarding and jigs in mind and Hammer offers a lot of additional accessories and guarding you can pick up down the line if you want. You may find the tilt more helpful than you can anticipate right now. As folks have said, for the same money you can get a higher quality and more capable machine on the used market, but you need to check or hope that everything runs true else you have issues to deal with. I regularly run into folks with new Taiwanese or Chinese machines that are not running true and cannot get cope and stick joinery really tight as a result. At least with the Hammer they're built to ISO specs and there is a dealer network you can turn to with a direct connection to the factory if needed.

If you fall in love with shapers and want to upgrade, the option may be available to have two. Keep this first one for lighter work (sticking) and use the higher one for heavier work.