Older Rockwell RC-33 model 22-650 outfeed roller jammed NEED HELP

[Sue Iskenderian]

I have no idea why or how this happened. Maybe I fed a board into the planer before the previous board was out. I don't know. But here is the story. I realized the boards were not feeding into the planer, and then I noticed the chain that turns the rollers hanging down. The chain had broken at the master link, and so I purchased another and put it back together only to notice that several of the teeth on the outfeed roller sprocket had broken off. I tried to turn the outfeed sprocket with channel locks, and it absolutely will not turn. I have no idea why or where I could find a replacement sprocket if I could figure out why it will no turn. Anyone out there an expert on this machine?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have worked on several planers but not your model. Could a knot, a chunk of wood or a broken bit of the old chain link be jammed in the roller or sprocket? I suppose a bearing could have failed so completely that it locked up. It is sad to see that very few parts are available. A good machine shop should be able repair or reproduce that sprocket or retrofit a stock cog. I did some troubleshooting on mine with a flashlight and a tiny inspection mirror on a wand.

https://www.ereplacementparts.com/delta-22650-type-planer-parts-c-3275_3571_13776.html

[Bill Dufour]

It may be cheaper to get three new sprockets that are close in size rather then have one custom made. If it is easy I would unbolt both bearings and lift the roller out to find the jam or failed bearing(S).
Bill D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9VqHeBJTxw

[Sue Iskenderian]

Hi Bill, Thanks for that great video. Well, I took the out feed roller out and I think I may have found the problem, even though I still don't know how it happened. One of the springs got bent, and I may be able to straighten that but where on Earth could I find that duplex sprocket. I have a part number, 428-06-134-0003 but don't know where I could find one like that. Do you know of a good source for sprockets?

[Sue Iskenderian]

Thanks Maurice, I followed the link you sent and found the sprocket, it says it's discontinued. Yes, it is sad, since it is a good solid machine. It was my fathers, he left it to me. I hope I can find a way to replace the sprocket, because I would love to restore it, in honor of him, as he always found a way to fix almost everything, except himself, when he got Alzheimers. :(

[Bill Dufour]

Is the sprocket one piece or two spring loaded? If single I would check Browning, Martin, Boston gear or Dodge. You need to know the bore, tooth count and chain pitch. As I said it may be cheaper to buy three stock sprockets instead of one custom one to match.
Is it one double chain or two single chains?
Bill D
https://www.martinsprocket.com/docs//catalogs/power%20transmission/2_sprocket%20catalog/sprocket-catalog.pdf

https://dodge.ptplace.com/productSearch?categoryKey=9AAC176980

https://www.bostongear.com/products/couplings-shaft-accessories-and-pt-products/couplings-shaft-accessories-and-pt-components/sprockets/roller-chain-sprockets

[Bill Dufour]

No idea if this is close but gives ideas price wise. Would a cogged belt drive fit?
Bill D
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/No-Brand-Name/35-PITCH-15-TOOTH-7-8-BORE-DOUBLE-ROLLER-CHAIN-SPROCKET-1-5703-G.axd
https://www.surpluscenter.com/sprockets-roller-chain/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI076H9NWEhQMVXdLCBB3jUQL9EAAYASAA EgJnz_D_BwE (https://www.surpluscenter.com/sprockets-roller-chain/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI076H9NWEhQMVXdLCBB3jUQL9EAAYASAA EgJnz_D_BwE)

[Sue Iskenderian]

It is what is called a duplex sprocket. 5/8" bore with key, 27 teeth, 3 3/8" diameter. Thanks for the resources Bill.

[andrew whicker]

It sounds like the sprocket isn't the problem, but a symptom?

Did you get the roller to roll over by hand? I'm in agreement that maybe sleeve bearing failed and the roller shaft welded itself to the bearing? IDK.

Photos?

[Richard Coers]

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/sprockets/

[Sue Iskenderian]

I got the roller out. It would not turn by hand. I finally got it freed up with PB blaster and much persuasion. The shaft was slightly scored. I smoothed it off, and got it to spin again in the bearing. The spring was slightly bent too. I can send photos of the damages. . How do I do that?

[Bill Dufour]

I would replace the chain since it is off already.

[Jerry Bruette]

I got the roller out. It would not turn by hand. I finally got it freed up with PB blaster and much persuasion. The shaft was slightly scored. I smoothed it off, and got it to spin again in the bearing. The spring was slightly bent too. I can send photos of the damages. . How do I do that?

Photos can be sent as an attachment. You can't see them unless you're a contributor, and it's worth the six bucks.

[Ronald Blue]

Whether it's the same or not is hard to say. Grizzly often has parts that interchange with other brands. Even though you have a vintage American made machine many of todays machines are still based on those designs. It's at least very close. Maybe someone that has one can confirm shaft size and teeth count.

https://www.grizzly.com/parts/grizzly-outfeed-roller-sprocket/p0453080?op=p0453z053


https://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0453zx_pl.pdf

[Sue Iskenderian]

Yes, Ron, that Grizzly part looks very close. I will call Grizzly tomorrow and get more details. Thank you for sending that. It is the closest I have seen so far.

[andrew whicker]

This is really confusing. Photos would definitely be appreciated just to settle my curiosity.

Did you find out what made it freeze? Did you stop using this machine for a really long time and it rusted?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I was taught to replace everything when doing maintenance on chain drives that are worn. On AG equipment and bicycles etc., the chains and sprockets are consumables. This video shows how to check for too much wear. 5% elongation = a worn out chain. If a worn out chain has been run for a while, the sprockets will be worn out too. The chain and sprockets are not likely to be proprietary on the Delta planer. +1 for McMaster Carr, Tractor Supply has a few, Granger has a lot.
https://www.grainger.com/category/power-transmission/roller-chains-sprockets/roller-chain-sprockets-idlers/fixed-bore-roller-chain-sprockets?tv_optin=true&searchQuery=Sprockets+And+Chains&tier=Not+Applicable&gucid=N%3AN%3APS%3APaid%3AGGL%3ACSM-2296%3ATHWFFZ%3A20500731&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2PSvBhDjARIsAKc2cgOlyrSvJBu6JnaYcgO-M2IMofUW_PmwdQ6YusROZoEeIhTkI1kpE7waAo8TEALw_wcB


https://youtu.be/LAkxU9RCLjA?si=58cum0S7RUa6A5LW


https://youtu.be/LAkxU9RCLjA?si=58cum0S7RUa6A5LW

[Sue Iskenderian]

Nope, not the one. The one from Grizzly has more teeth. Looks like I might be out of luck. What a shame. The planer is worthless without that sprocket. I wonder why Delta discontinued all these important parts.

[Jerry Bruette]

Sue, I don't know your location but if you have a Motion Industries, Kaman, or other industrial repair parts supplier in your area you could take the chain and sprockets to them and they will help you select new parts. There's no reason why you couldn't change the number of teeth on the sprockets, as long as you keep the ratio the same. No reason why you couldn't change from metric, if that's what the parts are, to standard SAE parts.

[Bill Dufour]

Something like this? You can ream or pay someone to ream the bore larger and add keyway? You need to figure out what chain is being used. Are the other sprockets okay?
BillD
https://bepltd.com/products/4dr27-bs-duplex-roller-chain-sprocket-pilot-bore-08b-1-2-27-tooth

[andrew whicker]

Yeah, a machine shop can always get you where you need to be shaft wise

[Sue Iskenderian]

The other sprockets are good, and the chain says 06B. I am not sure how to add photos. I am new here. What should I do to post some photos? I have been using the machine to plane about 30 1" x 6" x 8' rough sawn oak boards recently, until this happened, and have used it off and on over the past 10 years. It does have some rust, but not that bad. I would be willing to change all three sprockets like has been suggested. I think the photos need to happen next. Please advise how to post photos.

[Sue Iskenderian]

Yes, Motion Industries about 30 minutes away. Thank you everyone for all the support and encouragement. Sounds like there may be hope yet. Just noticed the way to add photos. I will take some tomorrow. Also, how do I become a contributor?

[Peter Mich]

Yes, Motion Industries about 30 minutes away. Thank you everyone for all the support and encouragement. Sounds like there may be hope yet. Just noticed the way to add photos. I will take some tomorrow. Also, how do I become a contributor?

The Donate button is found at the top of the page…

517383

[Bill Dufour]

You have to become a member by donating before you can see or post photos.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

06B is a metric chain size. I would guess the shafts and keyways are also metric. Time to buy a horrible fright $20 digital caliper and make sure.
Bill D.
Not recommending but these companies are possible sources. Some seem to be calling it 3/8 chain. No ida if that is a true interchange or just kind sorta close enough. Looks like you need a fairly standard size.
https://bepltd.com/products/3dr27-bs-duplex-roller-chain-sprocket-pilot-bore-06b-3-8-27-tooth

https://www.123bearing.com/power-transmission/sprocket/double/06b-2-27-x

[Bill Dufour]

https://www.motion.com/products/sku/11543987

https://www.motion.com/products/sku/11543988

[Bill Dufour]

5/8 bore would be 16.002 mm. I bet the shaft is 16mm since the teeth are metric. I do not know this machine, where was it made and when. The bolts or screws you have taken out.. metric or English threads?
Bill D

[Sue Iskenderian]

What should I take pictures of? And when it says 06B-2-27, what does the 2 mean?

[Bill Dufour]

06B-2-27 .. I assume the 2 means duplex sprocket.
Bill D.
https://www.martinsprocket.com/docs/catalogs/engineering/engineering%20catalog/sprocket-engineering-data.pdf

[Jerry Bruette]

What should I take pictures of? And when it says 06B-2-27, what does the 2 mean?

If that number is on the sprocket, it would mean it's a double sprocket with 27 teeth.

[Sue Iskenderian]

Bill, that first one you sent from Motion, looks really good. The plate with the model number says Rockwell-Invicta 22-650. I think I read that it was Brazillian made for Rockwell. 1984. I just read this on another thread about this planer.

"It has been a good machine, but I had a bushing cease and it twisted off at the sprocket. So I am in search of an outfield roller, and not having any luck anywhere."

Sounds familiar.

Still trying to figure out how to attach a couple photos, showing the sprocket and damage to the spring.

[Sue Iskenderian]

517419517420

Finally figured out what I was doing wrong. So now I can. YEAH! :) Here is the sprocket and spring.

[Jerry Bruette]

I'd take the sprocket, spring, and chain to Motion Ind. They will measure for you and match what you have. They can help with the bushing/bearing for the roller shaft too.

Is the bearing a brass colored unit or is it an actual roller bearing? If it's a oillite bushing they should be able to match i for you. I'd replace both while you have it apart. If the shaft is galled you could dress it up and use it again. Won't be as good as new but it an save you some money and get you back up and running.

[Sue Iskenderian]

517419517420517422

Finally got it. YEAH!! Here is the sprocket and spring......and me.

The bushings on either end of the out feed roller are like blocks of metal with a hole bored out for the roller shaft and a recess that holds the spring. I can get photos of that too.

[Jerry Bruette]

517419517420517422

Finally got it. YEAH!! Here is the sprocket and spring......and me.

The bushings on either end of the out feed roller are like blocks of metal with a hole bored out for the roller shaft and a recess that holds the spring. I can get photos of that too.

How about pictures of the ends of the roller shaft that go into the bearings? We could give better advice on their condition if we can see them.

[Sue Iskenderian]

I will open it back up and get a picture of all that stuff. But first I have to run an errand. Here it is without the chain and roller sprockets. More to come.517427

[Sue Iskenderian]

517445517446

After struggling for a long time with a LOT of back and forth and PB Blaster and more turning, and more back and fourth, and then lots of pounding to get it off the shaft. (PHEW), I smoothed off the galled part on the shaft a tiny bit, until it spun freely. I did nothing to the block /bushing. The other side looked ok. So I put it back together and have been obsessing on the sprocket issue ever since.

[Jerry Bruette]

I don't see where an oillite bushing would fit in there and I don't see anyway to lubricate that shaft. I'm guessing the shaft galling and snapping off could be a common problem on that machine.

If there's an oillite bushing in there that I'm not seeing it should be replaced.

This being the drive end of the shaft it would naturally have more radial stress which would cause failure before the other end.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not see any bushing? The shaft looks good I see galling inside the bore. Any metal shop could bore it slightly larger and insert a thin bushing. My planer I had to rebush the bedfeed rollers bearing. Thanks for reminding me to oil around next time before I use the planer.
BilL D

[Sue Iskenderian]

That is the bushing, that block thing. It does have a oil hole right in the center of the indentation for the spring that holds the roller down. It all together slides up into the machine (without the spring). Then there's a hole through the casting where the spring sets down into the recess in the block/bushing. Then a cap that screws in above the spring and pushes against the spring, and that cap has an oil hole in it. And that's how the spring tension is adjusted, raising or lowering the screw. (sorry not used to explaining) Want a better photo or does that make sense?

[Bill Dufour]

I bet my parks planer drips oil on all the bearings on the gearbox side of the planer. The chain runs in an oilbath. Not sure if the chain goes below the oil level or not but at least one gear does and it brings up and it flows down everywhere.
Bill D

[Sue Iskenderian]

517452

Check out around part numbered #166

[andrew whicker]

That's interesting. Well for a few hundred you could have a machinist bore it out and add a bushing.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

For Ag. equipment we use weld on sprockets and reuse the hub if possible.

https://paulbhardware.com/power-transmission-fluid-power/roller-chain-sprockets-hubs

[Bill Dufour]

I was expecting a seperate bronze bushing in that rectangular bearing block(180). I suppose it is cast iron which is a decent low speed bearing material. It can still be bored next standard size larger and a bronze sleeve bearing inserted. To much metal need to be remove fora reaming to be a practical option. I am not sure if the spring bend is an issue or not.
Again we need to know if this is metric or English. If made in Brazil or Asia I assume metric
Bill D.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354995492714?itmmeta=01HSV6PHH9R78TXQ16E23JZ3YE&hash=item52a761576a:g:49IAAOSwlI9lGuzC&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4BUQDvRNmENCIWX6q9I2uJW3Q9Xh6 Zq9wICzzaOeAkYkBgS%2B6n5KgwmRYrVyoUdZORHkwR2yRIfxj 5LIH6I%2B7Apd7rggpFYY4v8N2Jdv1ZCt36u6qR%2BVv2L1%2F nPtrIXQzHheTWgOYJY1skkH3FJDyOmlWW7P%2FmfyVXweYEAEX %2BAA3nPCF7Wk88TicO17sEw5yI%2FI%2FzH9StDubDBhC57UB fSLbujzyDqXsFtwlrApcLTPXejW6iEsPvXv%2FLMKimEWh%2BP e4fzdux5iLMFeszz5OQLDo8EYZ%2B6q4kNEt%2B%2BaRdy2%7C tkp%3ABFBM8Jja5s5j

[Jerry Bruette]

That is the bushing, that block thing. It does have a oil hole right in the center of the indentation for the spring that holds the roller down. It all together slides up into the machine (without the spring). Then there's a hole through the casting where the spring sets down into the recess in the block/bushing. Then a cap that screws in above the spring and pushes against the spring, and that cap has an oil hole in it. And that's how the spring tension is adjusted, raising or lowering the screw. (sorry not used to explaining) Want a better photo or does that make sense?

Your explanation works. I'll have to say that I understand, but it doesn't make sense. I don't know why they would build it in such a way that it's nearly impossible to get any lubrication into that block. Is it possible that a tube could be inserted into the lube hole in the block that would stick out the top and you could add oil that way?

Otherwise I don't think you have any other option than to reassemble as is with some grease in the blocks and flood it with oil periodically.

I still think Motion would be your best bet for a sprocket and chain.

[Sue Iskenderian]

Definitely metric. I know someone that says he can make one of these for me. We shall see.

[Bill Dufour]

I would either make it from a block of brass/bronze or use iron and a bronze sleeve.
BILL D.

[Sue Iskenderian]

To all that contributed to my sprocket questions. Thank you, all of you. And you won't believe what happened. I heard back from someone I contacted two weeks ago. He had told me that his computer was showing he had one sprocket left in his warehouse, but did not know for sure if it was really there. I never heard back from him so I figured he did not have it. Then this week I heard from him, that he had found a box of 10 of them. He is now selling them on Ebay. Go figure, funny how things work out. Today, got the part, and bought new chain from McMaster-Carr and I put it back together. I learned so much about my planer from this discussion, and so glad I found Sawmillcreek Forum. Very helpful!!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

HooRay! an adventure with a good outcome. I am impressed.