My new bandsaw, I hope...

[Zachary Hoyt]

I had the high bid tonight on this Rockwell/Delta 28-350. I've been looking for and bidding on these for the last few years, and I was the back bidder a few times, but this one went for a very good price. My reserve bid was $600. It's possible that there's something terribly wrong with it, but at worst I could part it out. I just have to wait to see now if the National Guard approves the bid. It's about 2-1/2 hours away, or 3 hours if I go around Lake Champlain to save the ferry fare. I'll have questions once I get it home, assuming it's working or repairable, about the relative merits of a VFD or a single phase motor, and probably about tires and such. I just wanted to post tonight because I'm excited to finally have one of these almost lined up.

https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/36755/item/rockwelldelta-bandsaw-floor-machine-model-28-350-794-228675

[Robert Hayward]

Congratulations on the bid. Fill me in on why you find this bandsaw desirable please. Do not take this in a negative way. I know nothing about the machine and am just curious why you want one.

[Bill Dufour]

Remove the table before moving. Broken trunnions will turn it into scrap. I would buy a VFD, cheaper then. 1.5hp single phase motor. A VFD also gives slow start and power brakes.
BilL D.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?248622-Moving-a-Delta-28-350-bandsaw
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?259917-Mobile-base-for-new-Delta-Rockwell-28-350-bandsaw
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=17085

[Zachary Hoyt]

Robert, thanks. I've been looking for a Delta or Rockwell 28-3xx or a Powermatic 81 or possibly 80, but there are a lot more of the Delta/Rockwell saws around here anyway. I build banjos and guitars and such, so the 13-1/2" resaw height will be nice. I don't resaw a lot of wood, but now and then. These saws have a reputation, at least among some folks, for being solid and smooth running and dependable. The table is big and has a trunnion both in front of the blade and behind it. I figure if I fix this saw up a bit it should be the last big bandsaw I will need for the rest of my foreseeable life(I'm 38 now), and I think it should be an improvement in several respects on the 18" Parks that I have now.

Bill, thank you. I will indeed remove the table for the reason you mentioned, and also to save weight. I've moved a couple of 18" bandsaws that I have owned, and always took off the table. While this one is bigger and heavier I think it should be movable by myself, since I have a trailer with a ramp-tailgate thing and a hand truck. I'll lay it down in the trailer to come home. I may also end up removing the motor to save weight if I have to. I've been thinking about the VFD question a bit. I have one on my Clausing drill press with a 3 phase motor, and it was not too hard to wire. On the drill press the variable speed was handy for when I want to slow down below 500 RPM on occasion, but I use the bandsaw a lot more, probably 10 to 20 times as much, so I don't know how long a VFD would last under heavier use. Thank you for the links.

[Bill Dufour]

I have a photo saved of someone using a purpose built cart to tilt a oliver? bandsaw for moving. Not worth trying to search my photos when I can only see three at a time by scrolling around.
BilL D

[Marc Fenneuff]

You practically stole it at that price. You should be prepared to replace all the bearings. The previous owner spun one of the bearings on the lower shaft on mine and I needed the services of a machinist to make it right.
I love mine and it resaws well. Just think twice before going much bigger than a 1/2" blade. The frame really isn't up to the job of tensioning really wide blades. The big table and near infinite adjustability is really nice. I left mine 3PH and added a VFD.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Zachary, many VFD’s run 24/7 for very many years in industrial and commercial applications, you’re going to fine with much lighter use on your saw.

Good luck with your saw, I bought a Powermatic 81 and put a FD on it.

Regards, Rod

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you both very much. I'll certainly check the bearings and will be happy to replace them if needed. My current Parks saw has a journal on the main shaft that is damaged from a spun bearing, and I am hoping to get that fixed once I have this new saw up and running and before I sell the old saw. I have kept 1/2" 3 TPI blades on my last two 18" saws, and expect to do the same with the new one. That's good to know about the VFD. When I did the drill press I got one from FactoryMation, and can do that again, or if there is a better choice now I'd be interested to hear about it. The bid got approved already this morning, so now I just have to wait for the invoice from the auction company and for the weather to get a little nicer.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Neat-O! it looks heavy duty. We took the Lake Champlain ferry once. It was a highlight.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Mike Farrington on YouTube has a video where he refurbishes one of these saws. A good watch to see the disassembly and the various components, though I would personally have made different choices with the changes he made to his saw. To each his own.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Maurice, I'm glad to hear that the ferry was nice. I've not been on one before.

Marc, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it up.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

the ferry was nice.

The day before the ferry ride we had visited the workshop of a charming 80+ year old man who was still building traditional guide boats. You are in a lovely area!

[Zachary Hoyt]

Yes, I am very lucky to get to live up here for sure. It was a dream for 10 years or so, and then gradually things came together. The guide boats are very interesting, and there are a lot of skilled makers still. It would be fun to try to make one someday, but not till I have a bit more room than at my current location.

[Bill Dufour]

Oliver bandsaw move picture stolen from somewhere. I believe it was too tall to go in the door upright anyway.
Bill D

[Tom Trees]

For something sub 300kg, not that heavy if you stick a chok of the correct thickness, (not shown) under the guidepost side, to make tipping easier.
Table removed obviously, could even remove the wheels, though unnecessary.
Just remember the base should stay on the ground throughout, and not given the chance to lift/see-saw by having another chok anywhere but the very top end of the column when laid down.
See-sawing can cause a roll, though doesn't look as likely with that machine, just saying.

517386

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you both for the ideas. I think I should be able to handle this with a hand truck once I remove the table, trunnion and motor. If I understand correctly it should be about 450 pounds at that point. The heaviest single object I have loaded on a trailer by myself was a Garland 6 burner/grill/broiler/2 oven restaurant range that was supposed to weigh 600. I moved that on a flat cart with casters, and then lifted one end at a time onto the trailer. That was 10 years ago, but I should still be able to lift about as much, I hope. My current trailer is only a bit more than a foot off the ground and has a ramp/tailgate thing, so it should be relatively easier.

[Bill Dufour]

I have found an appliance handtruck is much more stable,. It is about double the track width of a handtruck so less likely to tip to the side. Be nice if you could rent one of those wit the extra hinged wheels on the back. Make it similar to that Oliver cart.
Bill D.
https://suburbanrental.net/product/appliance-dolly-4-wheel/

[Marc Fenneuff]

These saws are tippy with the table and motor removed for transport. The base will scoot out from under you when you tip the saw so strap the base if using a handtruck and have a helper brace the bottom if you tip it.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thanks for the tip, it's very good to know. I'll have 2 1.5" and 2 2" straps, so I should be able to get it secured to the hand truck.

[Zachary Hoyt]

The saw is here, after a long and mildly arduous excursion to get it. The ferry rides were very nice. A couple of helpful folks at the National Guard base helped with loading, and loaned me a 9/16" socket to remove the trunnion, after I realized that I had all the sockets from 7/16" to 1" in the car except that one. It was a bit of a project getting it into the shop by myself, but in under an hour it was done, with no damage other than some minor paint scuffs on the side that was down. I took a bunch of pictures of each step, for a future self-help pamphlet I am thinking of titling "How To Move A Bandsaw If You Are A Silly Person". I was not able to back straight up to the shop door because of the proximity of the house, so I jacked up the top end and turned the saw, put down a couple of cherry 5/4 rough cut boards to make a bridge, and used some 1-1/2" oak dowels as rollers in the putative Ancient Egyptian fashion. Then I used the jack again to get the top up about a foot and was able to lift it from there.

I may have to sell the jet lock fence because the rails stick out across about 2/3 of the walkway in that part of the shop, unless I think of a way to rearrange things to make them fit. I'm going to need new tires, as one had exploded and the other one is probably not far behind. I see that Sulphur Grove has them for $225, and Blue Max for $255 on eBay. If there's something better I'd like to hear about it, or if one of these is better than the other. The insulation is really crumbly on the end of the power cord at the motor, and at the switch wire ends, so I am planning to use all new wire. The motor bearings and thrust bearings need to be replaced, and I need to clean the rust off the table. Other than those things, a new blade and a VFD I should be in good shape, I think. The foot brake even seems to be in at least semi-working order.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Cool pics!

For the fence, you actually have a Microset, not a Jet Lock. AFAIK Delta was still selling the Microset fence for these saws well into the 90's. I cut the rails on mine down.

For the tires, I prefer rubber. Do the wheels have the groove down the center for the Jiffy tires? If so your only options are Woodworkers Toolworks for rubber or those specialty urethane (because the Jiffy wheels are smaller than 20" dia).

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you for your help. I am confused by the distinction between the microset and jet lock fences. Some things I read said that the microset was an older design, and some the other way around. I have a Kreg bandsaw fence on my current bandsaw and will probably try using both on the new saw to see what works best for what I do. I would feel bad to cut the rails down, but if I end up keeping the stock fence that might be the best way.

The wheels do have the groove down the center. I've always had the general impression that urethane tires last longer, so I'm wondering what it is that you prefer about the rubber ones. The rubber ones you mentioned say they have to be epoxied to the wheel, which seems like it would be very awkward unless they are a lot looser than urethane tires. Thank you very much.

[Tom Trees]

Show me the proof of those urethane tires cutting very well compared to real rubber, and not fake rubber either.
I've not seen them used on any machine, but only on those cheaper saws, to mask misaligned wheels that is... with the usual editing and music involved.
You can see that clearly, if you spot someone tracking a blade by hand, just keep an eye at 12 o'clock on the upper wheel,
to watch the tips of the teeth moving in and out on the upper wheel, i.e not staying put on the camber...
and if rubber was used instead, it would be nibbling off the apex.

That apex of the camber being of utmost importance, if intending to attain the maximum beam tension from the blade, and not have the blade "give in" and wear out thrust guides prematurely.

Safe guess to assume you've seen my posts concerning accurate bandsaw wheel alignment, and letting the cat out of the bag concerning the deception going on since 1996....unless you've been living in a cave for the last year.

Good luck with the machine.
All the best

Tom

[Jim Becker]

Nice looking beast of a machine, Zachary! On the fence, it appears from the photo that you could just trim off those extra long fence rails since it would be unusual to use the fence "out there" anyway.

[Bill Dufour]

Good move, nothing got hurt. I thought a bandsaw normally was laid down on the spine for moving?
Bill D

[Zachary Hoyt]

Tom, I have used urethane on my previous two 18" bandsaws and have been happy with it. I have seen your posts about bandsaw wheel questions but have not weighed in, since my experience has been different so far.

Jim, thank you very much. It would be easy to cut the rails and I would just need to get over feeling guilty about it. I'll have to try using this fence first and see if I like it more or less than the Kreg. If I am going to sell it then leaving the rails uncut would be better, but if I keep it there's no rational reason not to cut them.

Bill, thank you very much. I have always laid them down on the spine before, but this saw has a weird configuration on that side. There is a big piece of box steel, maybe 7x7 or 8x8 on the spine, but the lower cabinet sticks way out past it, so it would be tippy on that side. I'll get a picture that shows the spine later on and post it, as it will be better than my attempt to describe the shape.

[Bill Dufour]

When my brother picked up used engines to be rebuilt. talk about wierd shapes with no good balance feet. He took along a few old tires with no wheels. Let the machine crush the tires and settle down to a comfortable position. He preferred big fat racing slicks.
BilL D

[Zachary Hoyt]

I used to run into that with old farm machinery too, that it didn't sit up nicely. The tires sound great for that. I found a picture in my collection of moving the saw that shows the spine pretty well, and why it wouldn't balance nicely on it.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've got the bearings all out of the saw and motor and will be ordering new ones. The guides are the kind with blocks, so I don't have to order bearings for the sides. I looked up an extra set of casters I had bought a couple of years ago and found out that they are rated for 880 pounds per set so I can use them with some heavy angle iron to make a mobile base. The casters I have had under the Unisaw and 6" jointer have held up well, so I am hoping they will work for the bandsaw too, though it's heavier. I've been very happy with them and they are only $12 a set at Surplus Center. I also put all 11 of the saw moving pictures into an album just for fun.

Casters (https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Tente/5-X-1-1-4-Round-Stem-Swivel-Caster-Set-880-lb-capacity-1-5685-SET.axd)

Album (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOfurhDxQiTrK0Z3gAudPCe_DZaVYi-Y641jvk8fnwiJN-SS3ELN4aESMzJFbJB3w?key=VGxoT2hpMURyd2hEVi1ULUJ3VV VlOGUzb2FKV3Bn)

[Bill Dufour]

Are you a welder? Mobile bases get a lot easier if you can do that. I bought. a power hacksaw to cut the iron square. Works well, patented in 1912. Previous owner converted it to electric motor.
Bill D

[Tom Trees]

With a saw like that, I'd consider a quick lash up as per Carl Holmgren, no need to make a latch for such experimentation,
as you might choose to weld up something after that.
The lash up would likely be appreciated, as it might take a bit of head scratching concerning the location of swivel casters, which can dip an end of the machine when swivel casters at maximum swing. as this timeless design of lifting mechanism can be troublesome if wheels too close to the centre.

Worth a look at those designs, as you won't find better, if you can make it work without too much hickups.
Saying that, for seemingly such a sought after machine, guessing there's a theme of OWWM which yer going for,
then it could/WILL be made work,
well...that would be the case for myself, as my own bandsaw base just looks annoying/stupid to me now, after spoiling myself.

All the best
Tom

[Bill Dufour]

Good idea to cut one or more plywood pieces to fill in the base. Then throw in some heavy iron stuff to add ballast. Especially if you add wheels or height which will make it less stable.
Bill D

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you both. I have an AC stick welder from the days of yore and used it to repair and modify old machinery at the farm where I used to live. I still think I have enough of the 3/16" and 1/4" 3x3 and 3x4 angle to make another mobile base, but I need to pull what I have out from under the shed. I bought a small pile of odd pieces of this type at an auction years ago and they're very handy. I used them to make the bases for the Unisaw and the 6" jointer. I'd prefer to leave the bottom open if I can so the sawdust can go on the floor, but if it feels at all tippy I can add weight as mentioned. I'll plan to have the caster pivots outside the footprint of the saw itself, and will have to see how it feels. I do want to add at least 6 or 8 inches to the height.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

You should be able to re-saw your instrument wood when you get that the way you want it.
I just had a disappointing failure with my Delta 14 that is a little too small for my resew blade. Don't cut a frozen ham on your new old saw.

I cut a trimmed down frozen ham in half on the bandsaw with a 3/4 inch re-saw bade. The cut went just fine. The instant the cut was done the blade ejected from the wheels and plowed into the steel and aluminum blade guards. It made me feel very foolish. The blade tension and tracking are now both hard to turn. I have not looked every thing over yet. I hope nothing major is damaged. I have cut meat and bones on the bandsaw before with no problems. My first thoughts are, the cold added too much to the blade tension, or the ham fat messed up the tracking.

[Marc Fenneuff]

I do want to add at least 6 or 8 inches to the height.

Wow are you 7' tall? I'm 6'1" and find the table to be a good height (and I've raised up everything else in my shop since I prefer taller work surfaces too)

[Zachary Hoyt]

Maurice, I'm sorry to hear of your trouble with the bandsaw. I didn't realize that the cold would have that effect. My frozen meat escapades have so far been limited to dividing large bricks of frozen ground beef with a cold chisel 20+ years ago, and recently and often whacking 10 pound bags of frozen chicken leg quarters on a large round rock by the porch to separate them so I can thaw a smaller quantity.

Marc, you got it exactly right. I am indeed 7 feet tall, and my previous two 18" bandsaws have been raised 9" on a wooden thing that might be a plinth. The new saw would be at the same height if I raised it 6", but my casters are tall enough that 7-8" may be required, and I won't mind a little extra.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Marc, you got it exactly right. I am indeed 7 feet tall

This is helpful. I watched a few of Zachary's youTube instrument videos and thought he was making miniature Instruments.

[Bill Dufour]

When I set up my shop I settled on QO panels and breakers. Still being made today and 50+ years worth of take outs for sale on e-bay. It was cheaper to buy a too big used loaded panel then to buy a new panel and the required number of new breakers.
Bill D

[Zachary Hoyt]

Maurice, a lot of people have been confused by my instruments' relative size, even when they see them and me in person, especially with a fiddle.

Bill, I too went with a QO panel for the house, though I bought a new one. They seem to have been around a long time and have a good reputation.

[Bill Dufour]

For my tablesaw base I used some 2x4 rectangular tube and C-channel. Sure made it easy to attach casters and the saw base. Drill and tap a few holes or through bolts.
BilLD

[Zachary Hoyt]

I had some time today and the weather was nice, so in the afternoon I dragged the angle iron out from under the woodshed, selected some suitable pieces and made a mobile base for the bandsaw. It's 3x3x1/4" on the sides, 3x3x3/16" angle on the back and 2x2x1/8" on the front. I cut short pieces of 3/4 pipe, about 1-3/8" long, for each caster and welded them on. Right now the casters are just stuck in them, but when I go to town I will get some m8 bolts and drill a hole in each pipe to allow a bolt to be threaded into the cross hole in the caster stems. I had to do some rocking and rolling to get the saw up onto the base, and some off-label floor jack methods, but it only took about half an hour to get it up there and a couple of hours to get the materials, make a plan and make the base. I have to weld outside because the shop has an OSB floor.

Earlier in the day I cleaned up the table, and found several deep, long scratches in the surface. They don't matter, but I wonder what made them. This evening I made a brass tapered pin to put in the table slot and cut a piece of 1/8" aluminum for a new throat plate, but I found that actually it has to be 3/32", so I will need to order a piece. I detached the whole old electrical works and will probably try to sell them on eBay. At least for now they are out of the way so I can install the new stuff once it comes. I got two bearings in Saturday's mail, one for the upper and one for the lower shaft, but the other 6 are supposed to be delivered tomorrow, if they all are on time. For now it's nice to be able to roll the saw around.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Two weeks later I finally got the saw running. I put the tires and bearings and blade in more than a week ago, but the tool box for the VFD enclosure was delayed 8 days from when it was expected to arrive, and finally showed up yesterday. I didn't have time to install things till today. I put it all together according to the idea in my mind and programmed the VFD, and everything worked fine, which was a great relief. I set it to start in 5 seconds, and to coast to a stop, and to use the toggle switch to control start/stop. I didn't have the right kind of cover to hold the toggle switch so I made one out of a cutout of leftover stainless steel sheet from the range hood I put in the house last fall. It doesn't match the color, but I am not worried about that. The brake works a bit, and slows the saw down a couple of seconds faster than when it just coasts. It cuts very nicely by my standards and passes the nickel test. I'm very pleased and will move the Parks out of the bandsaw spot and put this one in it tomorrow. The cord will run up and around the door, which is why I got a 25 foot piece of cable. That way I can also roll it out to the middle of the floor if I ever need to cut something 16 feet long.

[Carroll Courtney]

You have hit homerun, very nice congratulations

[Kevin Jenness]

Nicely done. I like the toolbox repurposed as the vfd enclosure. The saw should serve well and last you out.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you both very much. I've got a little thermometer to put in the VFD toolbox to monitor the temperature when I run it for longer. I've got a little vent fan and some filter material I can install if it gets too hot, but I'm hoping it won't.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I was trying to figure out how to hook up the shop vac to the dust chute and finally realized the obvious, that a Fernco adapter would be ideal. I picked it up at the hardware store, and put the little tube that fits over the vac hose in the other end. I never use that part anyway, so it's good to have a job for it, and it holds the shop vac hose nicely.

[Jim Becker]

I doubt that the nice folks at Fernco ever imagined that they would provide so much value to the woodworking world. :)