Maple Observation

[James Jayko]

At our shared shop, we have a small 'lumber yard.' I found a piece of maple that seemed to be about the right size for a box I wanted to build.

Milled it up, cut it down. Coincidentally, its got some figure to it. Started cutting dovetails. Finished the dovetails, went to plane the slightly proud dovetails I cut.

Maple may be the most miserable wood I've ever tried to work with. Its impossible to cut with hand tools, impossible to plane. Give me ANYTHING ELSE next time!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Yes but figured Maple is so pretty! I rely on saws, scrapers, and abrasives when working with figured Maple. Even the straight blade planer and jointer are avoided. There is a thread a few thousand posts back where a SMC hand plane expert shows the right planes and right techniques. It shows a very high angle plane and a scraper plane.

https://www.google.com/search?q=planing+figured+maple+scraper+plane+sawmi ll+creek+site:sawmillcreek.org&client=safari&sca_esv=cbde20439333e335&rls=en&sxsrf=ACQVn0-EDLnb_rvDwyddYfBfOfOF7z_-VA:1710507363394&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivkp--qPaEAxXNtokEHenFDHIQrQIoBHoECA4QBQ&biw=1148&bih=578&dpr=1#ip=1

[John Kananis]

I'm masochistic I suppose but I love working with maple... trick is to do what the wood wants, not what you want lol.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’ve heard maple is good for making this stuff called paper. :)

[John TenEyck]

Figured maple can be a bear. As said, high angle planes and scrapers are the only way I can deal with stuff, besides sandpaper. End grain works the same as regular maple, however. And plain old maple works fine with hand tools. I hand planed some this morning w/o issue.

Someone here always says "Sharp solves all manner of problems.". Nothing could be truer when working with figured woods.

John

[Derek Cohen]

At our shared shop, we have a small 'lumber yard.' I found a piece of maple that seemed to be about the right size for a box I wanted to build.

Milled it up, cut it down. Coincidentally, its got some figure to it. Started cutting dovetails. Finished the dovetails, went to plane the slightly proud dovetails I cut.

Maple may be the most miserable wood I've ever tried to work with. Its impossible to cut with hand tools, impossible to plane. Give me ANYTHING ELSE next time!

I am building two of these out of Rock Maple, mostly with hand tools ...

https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/80d639c6-11d7-40b7-b57e-a978e38dacb5
https://i.postimg.cc/NMbFyw7V/Chair-seat9.webp (https://postimages.org/)

Progress to date ...

https://i.postimg.cc/rs6GRkP2/T10a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/Sx1x8Y9c/T15.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The build is on the hand tool forum
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/b014a992-006b-4f69-b0f5-e9198285d844

I have used Rock Maple on a number of occasions, again generally hand tools are a significant part of the build. Yes, it is hard stuff ... but not as hard as my local West Australian woods (such as Jarrah and SheOak). I love it as it finishes beautifully, takes detail so well, and has a gentle appearance.

Dovetails in Rock Maple ...

https://i.postimg.cc/tTSML4n5/Final8.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Yes but figured Maple is so pretty! I rely on saws, scrapers, and abrasives when working with figured Maple. Even the straight blade planer and jointer are avoided. There is a thread a few thousand posts back where a SMC hand plane expert shows the right planes and right techniques. It shows a very high angle plane and a scraper plane.

https://www.google.com/search?q=planing+figured+maple+scraper+plane+sawmi ll+creek+site:sawmillcreek.org&client=safari&sca_esv=cbde20439333e335&rls=en&sxsrf=ACQVn0-EDLnb_rvDwyddYfBfOfOF7z_-VA:1710507363394&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivkp--qPaEAxXNtokEHenFDHIQrQIoBHoECA4QBQ&biw=1148&bih=578&dpr=1#ip=1

Hi Maurice

That thread was written in 2011, and the rules have been re-written since then. Time was that a high cutting angle was the first defence against tear out when planing. now it is the "double iron", which is a closed up chipbreaker on a standard angle bed. Very effective, and the lower cutting angle is both easier to push, and also leaves a cleaner surface.

An article to read: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes4.html

Straight shavings indicate a closed up chipbreaker ...

https://i.postimg.cc/3JZDGrYY/IMG-0732.png (https://postimages.org/)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Here is a picture of the sort of work I like it for. I rely heavily on sanding and scraping.
James Jayko, The shared workspace sounds interesting. I am going to attend the next open house at Sawdust Studio here in our town. They jut had another nice article appear in the news.
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/sawdust-studios-columbias-carpenter-community/article_f4f8461a-df2d-11ee-91ec-178aef8cbf17.html

516980

[George Yetka]

Im in the middle of a hard maple cabinet build and am so tired of the stuff. Cabinets are 80% woodfiller now.

[Jimmy Harris]

I feel you. Hard maple is one of my least favorite woods to work with, especially if it has any figure or reversing grain.

One thing I recently discovered is that it's not enough to just have a sharp iron. You really have to set your plane up extremely precisely. That means a closed mouth and a tight chip breaker. And not just tight to the edge, but one sturdy enough to prevent ANY flex in the blade. You might try bending your chip breaker down a bit to get more downward pressure on the edge of your blade. Or get at thicker iron and chip breaker. It makes a big difference when planning against the grain in maple. I was surprised at how much tear out was being caused by a blade chatter so subtle, that I wasn't even aware it was happening. A small back bevel doesn't hurt either. And scrapers and sandpaper are always there if you need them.

Power tools aren't much better, as the wood likes to burn. But slowing the machine's speed down (if possible) and using sharp bits and blades goes a long way. My DW735 thickness planer handles it surprisingly well on the slower speed. Especially considering how difficult it is with hand planes.

Thankfully it saws pretty easily with hand saws. The grain doesn't want to take over and pull you off your line. And while chisels can be hard to work through, they're easy to control. So with a bigger mallet, it's not too bad. However, some boards will want to warp and bind when you rip them, and I've found when that happens it's easiest to just pull the saw out, start over, and use a wedge to keep it open. That stuff can pinch a blade really hard if you let it, so re-establishing a kerf can really help.

There are lots of little tricks you'll learn working with maple, and it'll make you a better woodworker the more you work it. I find hard maple more difficult to work than many other harder woods like Osage Orange, Padauk and Purpleheart, even if the grain reverses on them. I guess it's the closed grain. But it's far from impossible, even if it is far from forgiving.

[Al Weber]

One trick I use with figured maple is to wet the surface with water or alternatively mineral spirits before power or hand machining. This seems to relieve just enough brittleness to minimize tear out. I don't have problems with rust on tools after doing this as my steel tooling is dried immediately after use. You don't need to soak the wood, just wet the surface.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I’m building doors and drawer fronts with hard white maple. Not much figure at all, just a wave here and there. Maybe that’s the difference: my boards are planing easily, and the result is mirror smooth. Did I just get lucky, or is this thread only about highly figured maple?

[Jimmy Harris]

Yeah, if it's not figured or doesn't have any reversing grain or other grain related issues, it tends to work pretty easily, other than just being a somewhat harder wood to push through. When I buy hard maple, usually about 80% of it works fine. Then maybe 15% gives me trouble that I have to plan around, and the last 5% I wish I had thrown away before wasting so much time on it.

Hard maple also can sometimes have a lot of stress built up into the wood, so a perfectly straight board from the mill can warp like crazy when ripped. I had a hard maple board explode into shards and splinters on a table saw a while back because the saw released so much internal stress. It was the first time I had ever seen that. I've had boards crack and split on a table saw, but never explode!

Also, like I noted above, it tends to plane better with a power thickness planer than a hand plane. While I've gotten tear out on a power thickness planer before, it's nowhere near as likely as it is with a hand plane, in my experience. I think taking tiny bites versus long strips makes a difference in difficult grain.

[Justin Rapp]

I am building two of these out of Rock Maple, mostly with hand tools ...
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/80d639c6-11d7-40b7-b57e-a978e38dacb5

Progress to date ...

The build is on the hand tool forum
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/b014a992-006b-4f69-b0f5-e9198285d844

I have used Rock Maple on a number of occasions, again generally hand tools are a significant part of the build. Yes, it is hard stuff ... but not as hard as my local West Australian woods (such as Jarrah and SheOak). I love it as it finishes beautifully, takes detail so well, and has a gentle appearance.

Dovetails in Rock Maple ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Stunning work. Ironically clear rock maple is much easier to work with vs figured maple, even if it's soft maple. I got very lucky and all of these parts for a vanity went through my strait blade planner without tear out.

516983

[Cary Falk]

I love hard maple for so many reasons. I can't think of one thing that I hate about it.

[Frank Pratt]

Maple may be the most miserable wood I've ever tried to work with. Its impossible to cut with hand tools, impossible to plane. Give me ANYTHING ELSE next time!
If the hand tools won't cut it, then they are not sharp. Brush up on your sharpening skills and you'll find maple much nicer to work with.

[roger wiegand]

Pretty much every piece I made is done with at least some figured maple. It's about my favorite wood. I'm glad I started using it before I found out that it was impossible to work with ;-) This cabinet is the first, and so far only, piece I've made using hand planes only for finishing, no sandpaper or scrapers. An exercise to see if I could do it, I guess. The flower container on top was made when my DW was doing a flower arrangement for the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston for "Art in Bloom" interpreting a Japanese scroll. I figured it was the only thing I would ever do that would be shown at the MFA so it deserved some special treatment.

516991

[Andrew Hughes]

I made this cd cabinet for a woodworking competition some years ago. It wasn’t highly figured but the wood was hard, heavy and tight. Very challenging to plane. I chose the board for its ultra white color. I like maple but it’s kinda expensive and figured boards are culled form lifts so the lumber yard can charge more.

[Warren Lake]

simple work on the stroke sander. Derek you said once that hand planing is better, its not, its like all my friends who say their Macs are better. Its different and surfaces are related to what the job is. Done enough work in birdseye and its simple with machines.

Oh and nice work Andrew

[roger wiegand]

I made this cd cabinet for a woodworking competition some years ago. It wasn’t highly figured but the wood was hard, heavy and tight. Very challenging to plane. I chose the board for its ultra white color. I like maple but it’s kinda expensive and figured boards are culled form lifts so the lumber yard can charge more.

Best curly maple I ever got came from a mill around the PA/NY border decades ago. It was way up a back road, I've never managed to find it again. I asked about figured maple and they said "oh yeah, over in the corner. We pull it out because the cabinet guys hate it". It was half the price of the "good lumber", incredible figure, sequential boards up to about 20" wide. The effect of a hundred fifty BF piled up in and on my '68 Plymouth Valiant was part of what let to its early demise, though the crushed in roof gave it a certain air.

The table top in the picture I posted came from one of those boards-- I'm still hoarding a couple for special occasions.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

PA/NY seems to be good hunting ground for figure. I am fortunate to live near Old Standard Wood in Fulton MO. The proprietor of that mill spends his winters hunting logs in the Adirondacks. He has a knack for finding figure. He says he can tell from the bark what the figure will be like.
I tried to split some sugar maple last summer. I have added splitting sugar maple to my list of things to stop trying.

Here is the wisdom and work of William R. Cumpiano and Jonathan D. Natelson regarding difficult Maple. And a detail of a notched plane iron.

517018 517019 517023

[Andrew Hughes]

Best curly maple I ever got came from a mill around the PA/NY border decades ago. It was way up a back road, I've never managed to find it again. I asked about figured maple and they said "oh yeah, over in the corner. We pull it out because the cabinet guys hate it". It was half the price of the "good lumber", incredible figure, sequential boards up to about 20" wide. The effect of a hundred fifty BF piled up in and on my '68 Plymouth Valiant was part of what let to its early demise, though the crushed in roof gave it a certain air.

The table top in the picture I posted came from one of those boards-- I'm still hoarding a couple for special occasions.

Thats how I remember it.
Figured wood wasn’t separated from the lifts to charge more. It’s actually fine with me I’ve had my share. I do occasionally look for quilted maple boards. Sometimes I see it just on the end of a board I wonder how many have passed on it before i had eyes on it.
Good Luck Roger

[Jeff Leimberger]

https://i.postimg.cc/tTSML4n5/Final8.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Derek,

Love your cabinet. How did you attach the legs?

Jeff

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

Love your cabinet. How did you attach the legs?

Jeff


Thanks Jeff. The legs were glued and screwed (from the inside) ...

https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/9393bf46-d2bd-4211-a3b2-872a49f8606e
https://i.postimg.cc/XYfDn8yX/Final11.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/D02Mwy7m/IMG-0733.png (https://postimages.org/)
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/7bb2b164-188e-4919-843c-f129a42a4851

Details here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinSideTableTheLegs.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sam E Miller]

I think the OP was referring to planing the protruding dovetails, which would be end grain. For that, try wetting the end grain with a bit of alcohol, or a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water, this will soften the fibers slightly and can make end grain easier to plane. Set the plane to cut a very fine shaving. That being said, there is no substitute for SHARP.